Jourdan

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

None of those clubs are operating under a "soft" embargo, let alone the "nads-in-a-vice" embargo that we are. They've all been free to extend players contracts, pay their players what they're able, sign players and not have to motivate players under the cloud of administration and potential points deductions. Huddersfield still receive parachute payments. 

There is no other manager in English professional football operating under the constraints that Rooney is and I doubt there are many who would volunteer for the job right now. 

They might not be in an embargo, but they are amongst some of the more financially disadvantaged clubs in the division.

Three of those clubs have recently been in League One and largely have squads built in those divisions and the budgets to match. Huddersfield have also cut their cloth massively too. So are the constraints really that bad? 

People carry on like Rooney has the hardest job in football right now. I think it’s a myth that no-one else would entertain the job if it became available.

Look at Forest. That should have been an equally unappealing job. On the back of two play off runs and Premier League interest, Steve Cooper went there.

16 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Best interests to stay at a club that wasn't able to sign players for most of the summer, had a chairman that refused to communicate with him, couldn't even use his own youth players & then suffer a 12 point deduction for decisions taken elsewhere?

No, I dont think that stands up to scrutiny.

Re new owners, Rooney would be a key reason why they'd be minded to look at Derby as an investment. Therefore its unlikely any new owner would be looking to replace Rooney for some time.

As for the fans, yes some have short memories but quite frankly if fans demand loyalty from their managers & players, they should show it in reverse. Incidentally, I dont think we're anywhere near a 'playing crisis'...just talking hypothetically.

We are in a difficult spot indeed. Maybe for a manager with experience, qualifications and a track record, my view wouldn’t really stand up to scrutiny.

But for Rooney?

He got the job without even having the necessary coaching badges. He has no track record to speak of. He would still be considered a massive risk by almost one and all, so he very much needs this job to make his mark.

He has done some good but enough to get the attention of a club in a more favourable position? I am not sure. Not when you have clubs like Blackpool, Coventry, Huddersfield and Luton beating the odds.

Rooney might be key to attracting investors, he might not. We really don’t know with any certainty. But I think it’s fair to say a winning football team is more attractive than glorious failure with a high profile manager.

Fans are loyal to a successful project. Rooney’s stock will only hold firm if we show fight and spring surprises.

1 minute ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I think any criticism is very much the minority view. Rooney's loyalty to this club won't be forgotten by most & quite rightly so.

As someone who was scathing about Rooney last year, I think there's been real improvement since last season. The style of play is much better & the resilience of the team that he sends out has been borderline heroic given the appalling circumstances. And as your rightly say, his profile & reputation is actively helping to attract investors & players who wouldn't have looked at us otherwise.

Not to say he can't be criticised at all, I was there Saturday & we were pulled apart first half but those days happen. Overall the trendline suggests we're getting better. Wouldn't worry about the detractors, they'll always be around but he's going nowhere this season unless he decides he's had enough. 

Is it loyalty or is it a case that it’s been in his best interests to stay? How would it look if he had been eyeing the exit door as soon as the going gets tough?

Personally, I don’t think it’s a question of loyalty. Clubs are not knocking the door down and he’ll have to do more to convince clubs of his credentials. Keeping us up or making a very good fist of it is what will attract attention.

Rooney has done some good but retaining our Championship status is what counts.

I don’t think it’s unfathomable for the mood to turn or indeed for the owners to want their own man should the equation start to become a number cruncher.

Fans and owners alike have short memories. A manager comes in and gets us winning more regularly and Rooney will be a distant memory.

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That ship has long since sailed am afraid. How on earth are the administrators now going to sanction paying Rooney off to get rid of him.

Rooney is limited in terms of his managerial evolution and is making mistakes along the way as part of his learning curve and is managing a limited group of players. That's where we're at. 

 

Of course, Rooney’s job is safe while we are in administration.

But if a takeover is on course for January, one would imagine Rooney has an eight-week audition.

He has to keep us within touching distance of safety.

I can’t imagine the new owners being overly sentimental as it’s their investment at stake and quite a financial burden they are taking on too. They are surely looking to protect their interests.

We are a far more attractive proposition if we can somehow remain in the Championship and can go again with many of our issues behind us.

Any new owner/investor will surely be desperate to stay in the Championship and so of course they will be paying close attention to Rooney’s ability to get results.

It is easy to say his job is safe under the circumstances, but this is modern football.

Three wins from 15 leaves a lot of room for improvement. It is not hard to envisage a situation where the new ownership look for a shot in the arm or to make a statement appointment if results lurch further.

They won’t want to take on a sitting duck.

Barnsley 1-0 Derby

Woodrow

Kirchner with his latest offer...

Derby 1-0 Blackburn

Morrison FRGS

2 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

What are they? What tweaks/ingenuity are you referring to? Most managers would surely have done exactly what Rooney did - throw on another defender.

Luton - scored 22. Their two top scorers have more goals than all of Derby's team put together. Huddersfield, scored 18. Coventry, scored 18. Derby, scored 10. Does that not infer they have better goalscorers? And even with that, take away our points deduction and we'd be only 2 points behind Millwall, who you refer to and who aren't exactly prolific themselves and who have a very similar record to us. 

I'm not saying there's not room for improvement, of course there is, but don't tell me that the fact we are reliant on Baldock, Stretton and Kazim for goals isn't a principal reason we're not winning games. Their lad up front last is better than all three and would definitely improve our chances. There's only so much any coach can do with players of a certain ability. 

Never forget the great Alex Ferguson quote when asked what made him a great manager: "Great players", he replied. 

Personally, I would have kept the same settled team and perhaps added Stearman into the back line in the last 15 minutes. As little disruption as possible. We weren’t chasing the game.

Do Luton, Huddersfield and Coventry have better goalscorers than us really? Or is it that their teams function better as a unit and their coaching and tactics are better at getting more out of what they have?

Now I am not saying that we have top shelf options, but it’s not as if we have plucked Lawrence, Jozwiak, Baldock and Kazim from Dog and Deer FC either.

These free scoring teams you mention are almost exclusively reliant on unproven players coming up from League 1 and 2 and in some cases lower. Many players we would overlook and turn our nose up at if given the chance.

The only notable exception I can see is Coventry’s multi million signing of Gyokeres from Brighton.

Better players needed v better coach needed? It’s the eternal debate. I think at this moment all the evidence points to better coaching being needed which would lead to better decision making on the pitch. But let’s agree to disagree.

4 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

I'm not really sure what you'd expect any manager to do about this though. Surely the only answer is better players? 

You can't blame Rooney for Morrison hanging onto the ball where there's a break on, for Shinnie backheading a ball into the path of onrushing Luton players, of Allsopp dropping a clanger. They are individual errors at moments in games. Nothing any coach can do about it. How can a coach legislate for some poor refereeing decisions?  

What Rooney can do is motivate, organise, set them up tactically. The rest, once the game starts, is on the players. We're so much better than last year with a team that is punching hard and perhaps above its weight. I don't think any manager could get more out of them at the moment than Rooney is doing. 

Genuine question, looking at last night's game, what bit of ingenuity are you referring to would have won us the game?  

I don't think the answer is necessarily better players, but better coaching and tactics that would turn a few draws into wins and show evolution from previous games. When you look at the first quarter of the season and you can pinpoint a large majority of games where we didn't get what we deserve, that tells you it's a coaching problem. A good coach would be looking for and finding solutions.

No-one is saying that we should be showing the consistency of WBA, Fulham and Bournemouth. But look at the league table. Coventry, Luton, Huddersfield and Millwall all occupy places in the top 10 of this division. Do they have significantly better players than us? Why are they making fewer errors? Why are they winning more football matches?

Of course, individual errors can happen and of course, we are working hard, showing fighting spirit, and seeing improvement from last year. However last year was abysmal and the bar couldn't have been set any lower. The only way was only ever going to be up. But to say a coach cannot do anything about what happens on the pitch is practically absolving the likes of Rooney and Rosenior of any and all responsibility. What I would say is that Rooney is getting parts right - the players look motivated, the players (on the whole) look organised, but rarely do we seem to learn from or have worked on mistakes, and rarely do we seem to have tactical nous to change a game in our favour.

To say you don't think any manager could get more out of them seems unfounded and wildly assumptive to me. We've picked up 16 points from 39 (roughly 40% of all available points). It's less than half. There is always room for improvement. History shows a manager can and does tend to come in and get more out of a group of players.

We were 2-1 up with 10 minutes to go. I am not even sure it would have taken ingenuity to close out the game, but the kind of tweaks that experienced managers know to make because they have been in this position time and time again.

Part of me wishes we were terrible and a long way from the rest of the division. It would make our situation easier to take.

Instead, I think the pride felt by many and the twice-weekly searching for crumbs of comfort will soon be replaced by genuine frustration.

Let’s be honest, if there was a year where a team could stay up even after having points deducted, I think this is the year.

This division is really poor and you look at Peterborough, Hull, Barnsley, Preston and Blackpool amongst others and can’t help but think there is more than a sliver of hope for us.

I think that’s what makes tonight feel worse. We have squandered points against genuinely beatable opposition, and not for the first time either this season.

Rooney, Rosenior and the coaching team deserve some credit, of course. They have done some good work. We are competitive, we are spirited, we are hard to beat. But how do we progress beyond that point?

For the season ahead, I felt we needed an experienced manager and even though Rooney has done a creditable job, I still harbour those feelings.

I do feel there are times where we fall into familiar traps that an experienced manager would more readily prevent. 

We concede poor goals, we waste a limited number of good chances, we rarely turn games, we squander points. Those are likely to be running themes throughout the season.

There’s no doubt that Rooney and the staff are showing heart and endeavour, but where is the little bit of know how, the little bit of ingenuity that can really impact a game? 

Maybe acceptance that this season will be a gallant effort and little more is the best medicine, but at the moment, every draw feels like a defeat.

I really do think we’ll be kicking ourselves come the end of the season at the number of missed opportunities and how close we could have actually come to pulling off the escape of all escapes.

Derby 2-1 Luton

Morrison FRGS

Preston 1-2 Derby

Morrison FRGS

What worries me is the sheer number of creditors we have and the absence of a viable solution. Even a fire sale of first team players would achieve very little in terms of servicing the debt. Do we have a group of players worth anywhere near £60 million? Not even close, especially in the current financial climate.

I am struggling to see a way out. A takeover is months away.

We might be able to strike a deal with one or two creditors, but I highly doubt every creditor we have will be so sympathetic to our plight. Then of course, as time goes on, our liabilities will only increase and new creditors will appear, especially if we can't secure a loan for the day to day operations of the club.

Will we have a club a year from now? The way it is looking, the administrators will never have to buy a pint in a Derby pub ever again if that can be achieved.

It’s the Italian model. Any sign of discontent and the manager is gone.

In Serie A this season, two managers have been sacked after two games!

Brentford and Brighton have both had excellent starts to the season, which has probably forced Watford’s hand.

7 points from 7 probably wouldn’t seem so bad if not for that.

The trouble is that they have got 1 point from 12 v Wolves and Newcastle at home and Brighton and Leeds away - all teams they would be expected to reasonably compete with.

Derby 2-0 Swansea

Morrison FRGS

The next 6-8 games present a genuine opportunity for us to make ground on the teams above us.

If we can build momentum and get into that winning habit, I am not sure the players will even be concerned by another points deduction.

This is largely a very poor league and points are there to be won in every game. There are three very good teams, yes, but generally no-one to fear.

Coventry being in 4th and getting smashed 5-0 by Luton tells us everything we need to know.

I feared for us after Birmingham away. We made a fairly average team look good. But the response since then has been very encouraging and unlike earlier in the season, we are not just competing and battling but also digging in and getting good results to match.

The odds are stacked against us, but the players and the coaching staff have responded exactly how we would have wanted.

Another win on Saturday? Why not?

Derby 2-1 Reading

Morrison FRGS

4 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said:

I like this, you could just keep adding more heroic gestures:

He sponsored our school, he sponsored our school ...

He donated his kidney, he donated his kidney ...

 

He stopped climate change, he stopped climate change, Wayne Rooney, he stopped climate change.

?

How about this one?

I once was lost

But now I am found

Was blind

But now I see

(repeat)

Then finish with:

Rooney Rooney Rooney Rooney Rooney Rooney

He paid for my car, he paid for my car, Wayne Rooney, he paid for my car.

or

He rescued my cat, he rescued my cat, Wayne Rooney, he rescued my cat.

21 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It's his girlfriend I feel sorry for. 

She read your post and decided to leave me.

1 hour ago, Chester40 said:

Did you watch his press conference? 

I usually agree with you and have been pretty anti-Rooney until 7 days ago. But this gets top points for trolling and has put me in the invidious position of liking @MuespachRamposts!

Rooney can have lots of things levelled against him but if that press conference was the result of PR advice and he was posturing to the camera then I would be astounded. His PR team would surely have said 'be statesmanlike and rise above it' anyway. 

You could feel his change of tone when Mel was discussed. He obviously feels incredibly angry that he is now steering the ship but wasn't been given the common courtesy of the facts. He clearly has had staff coming to him and asking about their livelihoods and he has been in the dark. Some fans were speculating it was all a plan that Mel had made Rooney part of, but obviously that wasn't the case. Staggers me Mel has basically left him front and centre without giving him the heads up.

Nothing about paying for equipment and leading the team through an almost impossible situation seemed contrived to me. He made a comment about the players finding his 5min talk being more useful and heartfelt than Mel's 45mins, I don't see him pushing that idea as something that promotes him as a football manager, it's a personal thing that shows him as a decent bloke only.  It's also easily checked by asking the players. Clearly that comment was made to him by several players. 

As an aside, Mel's leadership has finished now.  No avoiding the conclusion it's been a shockingly bad period in retrospect. Like a drunk in Vegas constantly chasing his losses it's now come to its logical outcome. What remains to be seen is whether he wakes up with a banging head and realises he can show responsibility and good faith by slowly nursing the situation to its best possible conclusion (I still believe he will) or whether he is more akin to a Maxwell Mk 2 and having bleed his company dry he walks away from the situation with no self awareness or contrition. 

I am not anti Rooney. I praise him and criticise him just as much as I did with Cocu, Lampard, Rowett and so on.

As I’ve said before, it takes me time to really warm to and invest in managers of the club. They tend not to stick around long enough or do well enough to make that viable.

If Rooney is true to his word, he will become the most popular manager the club has had this century. Something not even I will be able to argue with.

I hope he is being sincere and that I will be able to lead the Rooney chants from the away end at Home Park next year, because he has really dug in and committed himself to turning the club around.

If I was anti-Rooney, I would have had a field day when the newspaper reports of his night out in Manchester came out in pre-season.

The way people carry on, you would think I dive into Plymouth Sound in despair every time we win.

I watched the press conference. Like I’ve said before, look at the mood around the club, he only said the kind of things that would inevitably hit the right notes with the supporters.

I feel the best tonic at the moment won’t come in the press room but with a stirring performance on the pitch.

30 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

Such a pity we didn't have a leader in the boardroom to get us out of our predicament, then Rooney wouldn't be having to say choice words in a press conference.He would be getting on with the job he was employed to do.

I don’t disagree.

It is gutting to see what a mess Mel has left behind.

But if a self-described fan of the club, who was once worshipped and considered ‘one of our own’, could be so reckless and act with such self-interest, surely you can see why some might be wary of anyone else in a significant position or with duty of care at the club.

Indeed Rooney is saying all of the right things, but time will tell if he is true to his word.