Jourdan

13 minutes ago, Ratpackram said:

Has any Derby manager had to deal with anything like Rooney has ? 

Judge him on a level playing field surely. 

When all this madness is over and IF Rooney is still in charge then that's when he should be judged in my opinion 

Who gets a level playing field? In every league, there will be those who have more and those who have less.

Blackpool, Luton, Coventry, Peterborough, Preston, Millwall, Hull and a few others could argue that the Championship is not a level playing field for them, couldn’t they?

Yet it hasn’t stopped them from getting on with things and trying to compete the best way they can. Sometimes to improve those efforts, the manager may be replaced.

Even Sheffield Wednesday on a points deduction last season went through two or three managers trying to compete. It is modern football. Winning is the bottom line.

So why should Rooney have allowances made for him?

23 minutes ago, David said:

And where is the context here, doesn't appear to matter.

He's won this out of that, not good enough, get gone.

I just hope the new owner does not view his tenure in such simplistic terms and looks and the whole picture.

OK, which context is missing?

If football was all about context and making allowances, Nigel Clough would have had a job for life here.

No-one has said Rooney has had an easy job. He hasn’t. But the bottom line is that winning football matches is what counts. Winning football matches will improve our position, not sentiment. 

What have you seen from Rooney that suggests he could rebuild the squad and get us winning matches in League One with the regularity needed to win promotion?

It is taking a shot in the dark quite plainly.

18 minutes ago, David said:

It has been earned and no we don't need a circus or distractions, what that has to do with Rooney I don't know.

Any managerial appointment is a risk, there's less risk in sticking with what you have and the players are on board with.

Rooney has instilled a fighting spirit this season, something we will desperately need next season.

Would have been so easy to walk away and hold his head up high, but he stuck with us, incredible really given the circumstances. 

Can't think of anyone I would rather have lead us into next season. Hopefully he still has the hunger for it.

It has been earned? Based on what metric?

1 win in 15 to end last season? Surviving by the skin of our teeth and a late Cardiff intervention? This season, you say? No wins in 7? 3 wins in 17? 20th without deductions?

It is hardly a convincing case. It would be a charitable decision and incredibly sentimental.

Indeed I think there is an element of rose tinted glasses on your part. As I recall, you were fervently pro Rooney from the day he arrived.

Less risk sticking with an inexperienced manager over appointing a more experienced manager? I would say there are pros and cons to both decisions, but logic and evidence suggests going for experience unless Rooney shows great promise, which he hasn’t as yet.

Given the make up of the squad could be drastically different in six or seven months’ time - only 8 players are currently contracted past 2022 - it makes no sense to be wedded to the idea of Rooney being manager or indeed this group of players assembled under Rooney.

Rooney has done some good, we can all agree there. But there are often times when his lack of experience shines through and I think he would have to show much more as a manager for the new owners to stake the club’s future on him.

If we do end up in League One next summer, it would be much more prudent to have a complete reset and let the club be viewed with fresh eyes, both on and off the pitch.

21 minutes ago, David said:

Once the new owner is in place, first job give Rooney a new contract, show him the love, clean slate and bounce back next year.

Right now we need some good news, this would be it. 

The players would appreciate this as well, we don't need the added uncertainty of will he or won't he go leaving them questioning their own futures.

A new contract? Shouldn’t that be earned?

Rooney has a year and a half on his deal. There is no need to offer him a new one, unless he achieves something exceptional. Like survival against the odds, for example.

If we do get relegated to League 1, the owners have to seriously consider if Rooney is capable of moving us forward. Stability for the sake of stability helps no-one.

If there is someone they consider to be better equipped to do that, they would be foolish to put all of their eggs in the Rooney basket.

It is an unforgiving league, one Rooney will likely have little to no knowledge of. We see big clubs struggle to get to grips with it very often. There would be an added incentive for teams too, a target on our backs, of course. Rooney’s Derby and so on.

Do we really need the circus? The distractions? Do we need someone at the helm who has to find his feet and learn quickly? 

It would be a big risk to stick with Rooney.

Millwall 1-0 Derby

4 minutes ago, Tombo said:

Er...those other clubs found those players by not being under an embargo ?

So scouting is forbidden when you are under a transfer embargo?

15 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But Rooney wanted him to re-sign, he didn't have to want to keep him. That was the point.

I get your point.

But Rooney got the job full time in January, not July. He could have set about making changes.

If he appointed a few new scouts and they subsequently were laid off, what can he do?

But he has kept most of the staff in place by the looks of things, and not always for the better.

The Given case is interesting. Do first team coaches get paid less than scouts? I would imagine not, so perhaps any new scouts would have been more likely to keep their jobs had we employed them.

4 hours ago, S8TY said:

What ?? one scout??? You think one scout will make a difference ….all you do is moan all of the time …I sometimes think you’re just a wum 

It’s all about the intent. Identifying a problem and trying to fix it.

If one player - Bielik - is viewed as enough to make a difference, why can’t one scout with the right kind of knowledge and track record?

People keep saying we need January and we need players who will make a difference. How are we going to find those players if not with good scouts?

5 minutes ago, plymouthram said:

The question is, is he in the position to rehash the recruitment/scouting team due to monies etc. He may have put this to Mel and the CEO and was told NO (we've got no money). I'm sure Rooney Knows like the rest of us, if we had an out and out striker we would be a better team. Lets hope a new owner and January will be good for us

That’s the point.

Will a new owner make a difference? Will January make a difference?

Not much will change if you have the same people in the same roles, not being held to account.

Having money to spend won’t help us if the scouting and recruitment set up is still porous.

11 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

Barnsley won without trying.

How does that suggest tonight was a good performance?

Even Rooney himself described it as ‘a disappointing performance’ and ‘not good enough’.

Sorry that I couldn’t be there tonight. Small issue of a 600-mile round trip and having work in the morning.

But if you saw something in the performance to give you hope, fair play to you.

7 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Sorry mate, you've completely confused me. Who do you think Rooney should throw under a bus. The people who paid his wages, Mel  Morris and the deal with 32Red or the scouting and recruitment team?

My original point was questioning why he didn’t shake up scouting and recruitment upon getting the job permanently...

8 minutes ago, sage said:

We could only sign a limited amount of players, on one year or 6 month contracts, on 4.5k a week. Scouting my arse. What did people expect?  

What part of that do some of you not understand ffs

Perhaps not sit around feeling sorry for ourselves? Perhaps show some imagination? Perhaps rise to the challenge?

We have been under restrictions, yes. But every scouting mission comes with parameters.

It’s not a temp job at Primark we’ve been recruiting for. It’s playing football for one of the most beloved clubs in the country.

We could have still found players if we were willing to try hard enough.

3 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Its just possible that Rooney is not in a position throw the previous owner and 32red under a bus for paying his wages?

But if he thought it would help the club moving forward, surely it would have been worth a try?

Everyone talks about the real success behind Brentford and the likes being good scouting and good recruitment.

It might have been a good place to start.

Just now, plymouthram said:

So Rooney being a novice Manager suddenly has the nounce to find a brilliant new scout.

We as fans have questioned scouting and recruitment for years.

Rooney has been at Moor Farm day in day out for almost two years.

How could he miss the need for a change?

But then again I suppose it’s the same people who thought it was a good idea to bring him to the Championship on £70-100k a week, so he wouldn’t want to throw them under the bus, would he?

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Because last season is done. We had a poor end to the season. When discussing whether Rooney has done a good job or not this season, last season is entirely irrelevant. I thought he was poor last season. I feel he's doing much better now. You're intentionally skewing the numbers, because realistically it's well documented on here you never wanted Rooney or were ever prepared to give him a chance. 

People like myself and @Jimbo Ram have acknowledged there has been an improvement.

Is 3 wins from 16 really ‘much better’ though?

If it was an experienced manager like Hughton or McCarthy in charge and they had overseen a similar run, it would be called for what it is.

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

How exactly could he have "brought his own people in"? With what, monopoly money? He brought 5 players in on loan in January : before the end of the season, they'd all gone back to their clubs injured bar Roberts. We all know what happened over the summer.

What exactly has he had the chance to do that could possibly have been on his wish list? 

A new scout is beyond the realms of possibility, is it?

Why is Rooney the ‘magnet’ for investors?

The name, the brand doesn’t matter if he hasn’t got the skills to back it up.

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

You mean like he wanted to keep Given?

 

Given was a Lampard recruit...

If Rooney was as switched on as people suggest, he would have brought in his own people when he was offered the job permanently.

We’re always bemoaning the lack of a goalscorer.

How did Luton find Adebayo? How did Blackpool find Yates and Lavery? How did Swansea find Piroe?

Personally I think coaching is the biggest issue but it has to be said that our scouting and recruitment is very uninspiring, restrictions or not.

Of course we are not down.

How can we be down with 30 games to play and 90 points to play for, or even 81 if you include an incoming points deduction?

We have ten games in the next nine weeks to build a platform for the second half of the season.

This is where Rooney sinks or swims.

Obviously nothing will change while we are in administration.

But Rooney’s hopes of staying in situ with a new ownership in place look to be receding by the game.

We have a very tough run through November and December.

The way things are trending, we might not win another game in 2021.

Blackpool at home, maybe?

The worry for me is that when we hit a difficult spell, Rooney struggles to remedy the situation.

Six games without a win now. Performances on the downturn. It could be a very long winter.

Come on guys, don’t be so down in the dumps.

Rooney has the hardest job in English football. You can’t expect us to compete with Barnsley.

We scored a goal. We ran around a little. Surely that’s enough?

25 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Blackpool, Coventry and Luton have amongst the smallest budgets in the division, that's true, but they've been able to build and develop their squads without interference from the EFL. 

And I'm sorry, but your opinion that the Forest job was equally unappealing is laughable. You seem unable to comprehend the debilitating effect of the restrictions that Rooney is operating under. Your obviously in a very entrenched position and so I see no point in debating this with you further. 

Why is it laughable? Forest were bottom of the league when Hughton left. They had won 1 in 13 league games dating back to April, losing 8 of those. Poor, negative, flaccid football had been a feature. Morale was on the floor and disgruntlement rife, and a previously accomplished manager at this level found his reputation very much damaged. I am not seeing the appeal yet, are you?

On the face of it, yes, a big club, but with question marks over the owner, the transfer strategy and the size and make up of the squad, it can’t have been an easy sell.

I can comprehend very well the restrictions Rooney is and has been working under. Perhaps we just have different ideas on just how debilitating they are.

Entrenched? Me? No. It just takes more to impress me than 4 wins in 30.

21 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Not that he would even be considered a top 10 candidate but Rooney has been linked by the media with Newcastle & their fans (whilst not keen) have acknowkedged he's done a good job here & why he has been linked. On that basis alone, I think he could get a decent gig elsewhere.

Re winning football...the bookies were adamant we were finishing bottom well before we went into administration. The fact we could potentially be off the bottom in 48 hours even with 12 points taken off is well ahead of general expectation.

I know you're unlikely ever to be convinced by him & I respect that. We were on the same side of the argument 6-9 months ago but character in adversity is one of the biggest things I respect in life & Rooney has shown that in spades. Maybe I'm naive in thinking there isnt an angle but just want to hang onto something positive whilst we're neck deep in this mess.

On his links to Newcastle and on our relegation in waiting, it really depends on how seriously you take media reports and bookies’ odds.

Was his link to Newcastle a genuine and serious one? It’s hard to say. Were we doomed from the start? It’s not really conclusive.

We have had the luxury of dropping 28 points on top of our deduction and still finding ourselves with a reasonable shot at survival. That suggests the quality of this league was always going to present opportunities.

It’s not that I am unconvinced by Rooney. I am desperate for him to do well and prove me wrong. I just think an experienced manager would be a better fit and reap more rewards.

We can all accept there has been improvement from the last third of the previous season and we can all see Rooney has done some good. But will it be enough?

I just think it will take more than 3 wins in 15 to close the door on the idea that Rooney is the best and the right man for the job.