Sunderland (A) - Match thread

[Ghost of Clough]

40 minutes ago, nottingram said:

I think Adams as a lone defensive midfielder is asking for trouble - you either still let him charge around and leave holes or take away his biggest skill in trying to have him sit.

Ozoh been a huge loss as we don’t have any other pure holding midfielder. I think the best way to replace him is probably a move to 3 at the back to give Adams and Kenzo some protection behind them while still letting them get forward, having either holding is a waste. Probably means Osborn to LWB as the best balance between defending (Forsyth) and attacking (CBT). 

In reality, it'll be closer to how we've shaped up so far with a 'flat 3'. With a shared responsibility on attacking and defending.

Take last game's average position as a starting point. 

 

31 minutes ago, Eoghan1884 said:

It may be down to tactical instruction. But it’s very obvious Kane naturally wants to get forward at any opportunity and is not a traditional fullback. He came through as a striker and winger as a kid and has played wing back or winger for nearly all his career. He doesn’t have the defensive discipline or know how in my opinion to lock up one of the best left wingers in the league. Also if we used him as a right back in a back 4 how we use nyambe we wouldn’t get the best out of his attacking attributes which is the reason he even got a move to the championship and then us in the first place. 

He came through at West Brom as a RB. It wasn't until his 2nd loan when he was played occasionally at RM. He returned to RB for his 3rd loan, with the occasional gane at RWB and on the left. He was then used mostly at RWB at Forest Green.

Wilson is much better defensively than Bogle, yet we didn't suffer from him being the RB in a back 4. It's all about balance. When we have an aging Forsyth at LB, you don't want a RB who is poor going forward

[Rich84]

Can't believe the number of people talking about dropping Nelson for Phillips.....

Personally I'd go back 3 with Phillips actually playing slightly in front of Cash and Nelson, not behind in the traditional sweeper role, so killing the space that Ozoh would occupy.

I'd take Osborn out as looks off the pace a bit and Forsyth gives us better security a LB/LWB and added height at set pieces both for and against.

Nyambe is a dilemma,  as an opposition I'd always set up to leave him free when we play out from the back as his control, composure and passing are a liability most of the time, maybe Ward at RWB as a bit better defensively than Wilson.

As @rammieib mentioned,  as good a threat NML is attacking wise, on at least 3 occasions agajnst Norwich, he was either too lazy, knackered or not aware enough which lost the ball in critical areas, one leading to a goal on Saturday,  needs to be better or rest him for Harness or CBT. 

Time to be ruthless in team selection IMO

 

[Crewton]

I hesitate to call tomorrow night's game a "free hit" due to it's unfortunate connotations from Rowett's time, but perhaps tomorrow is the right game to experiment with 3 at the back. We'll need to give  a couple a rest for Saturday anyway, because that's the more important game. Wilson, Chirewa, CBT and Harness all looked decent in their cameo appearances and Phillips certainly deserves a chance. 5 might be too many changes, but I think a 3-4-2-1 formation could be worth trying, with Wilson and Osborne as wing-backs, Ebou and Kenzo in CM, Chirewa and CBT behind Jackson or Yates, thus resting Nyambe, Fozzy, Mendez and one of Yates or Jackson.

[thischarmingram]

I’d go with something like this - to freshen up a little and to go full out counter attacking - I think CBT still has tonnes to prove but the one main quality he has shown from his stop start, start to life as a ram, is that he does keep the ball well and could be a decent outlet when we need to counter and bring people into play. Yates is excellent at linking play but he doesn’t allow others to catch up with the game…  so I’m going;

3 4 3 
                   Zetterstrom 

          Philips Nelson cashin

      Wilson Adams Osborn nyambe

           Jackson Yates CBT 

I guess he probably won’t do this because Fozzy doesn’t have the legs now to be a wing back so that’s why I’ve gone nyambe but maybe ward could do a job there? 

2 months ago I’d never have said this but boy how I’m looking forward to Elder being back (and Ozoh ofc). 

NML needs a rest I think and 3 games in a week would be a lot for Forsyth. I’m not sure a 2 would suit Goudjmin either. 

[Srg]

18 minutes ago, thischarmingram said:

I’d go with something like this - to freshen up a little and to go full out counter attacking - I think CBT still has tonnes to prove but the one main quality he has shown from his stop start, start to life as a ram, is that he does keep the ball well and could be a decent outlet when we need to counter and bring people into play. Yates is excellent at linking play but he doesn’t allow others to catch up with the game…  so I’m going;

3 4 3 
                   Zetterstrom 

          Philips Nelson cashin

      Wilson Adams Osborn nyambe

           Jackson Yates CBT 

I guess he probably won’t do this because Fozzy doesn’t have the legs now to be a wing back so that’s why I’ve gone nyambe but maybe ward could do a job there? 

2 months ago I’d never have said this but boy how I’m looking forward to Elder being back (and Ozoh ofc). 

NML needs a rest I think and 3 games in a week would be a lot for Forsyth. I’m not sure a 2 would suit Goudjmin either. 

You want to play a right back who isn't good at attacking at left wing back? What on earth?

 

I'd be tempted to put Chirewa CAM behind Yates, rest NML for CBT. Probably drop Osborn as fitness for him will be a struggle so don't want to lose him.

[thischarmingram]

20 minutes ago, Srg said:

You want to play a right back who isn't good at attacking at left wing back? What on earth?

 

I'd be tempted to put Chirewa CAM behind Yates, rest NML for CBT. Probably drop Osborn as fitness for him will be a struggle so don't want to lose him.

“What on earth” 😂

Who said anything about him attacking?

I literally said we will be there to defend and counter, so I’m essentially saying it would be a back 5 most of the game and even implied I’m just putting him there cause I don’t think Fozzy can do 3 games in a week. 

Did we not learn anything from Blackburn having two attacking high up full backs / wing backs? 
 

 

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, thischarmingram said:

“What on earth” 😂

Who said anything about him attacking?

I literally said we will be there to defend and counter, so I’m essentially saying it would be a back 5 most of the game and even implied I’m just putting him there cause I don’t think Fozzy can do 3 games in a week. 

Did we not learn anything from Blackburn having two attacking high up full backs / wing backs? 
 

 

But you have a player incapable of attacking, you're essentially limiting your ability to attack, let alone the entire balance of the team. Just invites pressure and doesn't even keep them honest there could even be the hint of a threat down the entirety of the left hand side of the pitch.

As an aside, still yet to ever see us play well with wing backs. We just don't.

[RoyMac5]

 

[DerbyRevolution]

any pay on the day available for this one?

[thischarmingram]

3 minutes ago, Srg said:

But you have a player incapable of attacking, you're essentially limiting your ability to attack, let alone the entire balance of the team. Just invites pressure and doesn't even keep them honest there could even be the hint of a threat down the entirety of the left hand side of the pitch.

As an aside, still yet to ever see us play well with wing backs. We just don't.

I don’t disagree with the last line, my suggestion was more how I think Warne will play to aim to be solid. I think he will set up for a point but we shall see. 
 

Just based on who we have I still don’t think we are strong enough (especially without Ozoh) to come out against teams away from home and take the game to them as we lose the midfield battle (why I’ve chosen to drop Goudjmin) and have little pace at the back. The only two times this season I’ve seen us not sit back and counter, was against Blackburn second half we conceded 3, and against Norwich where we chased the game and ended up 3-1 down. It seems as soon as we push on we leave huge gaps and look so exposed.

Therefore I think he will eventually switch to 3 cbs away from home and I don’t think we can afford two attacking “wing backs”. Ok yes it will be imbalanced but for arguments sake stick Forsyth there instead, but I still think come Saturday we’d have to stick a right footer there. I chose Nyambe out of the options for Sunderland because he is an excellent defender and that’s what we need most against Robert’s, rigg etc. Elder would of course be there if he was fit and nyambe back to the right side. 

4 3 3 will always be my preferred formation im just not sure we have the right personnel to do that away from home in this league against a team who is top 2 as we don’t keep the ball well enough at the top end of the pitch right now. 

[Anag Ram]

Whenever I see Phillips Nelson on the team sheet I can’t help thinking of this!

 

Edited September 30 by Anag Ram
Error

[Foreveram]

47 minutes ago, DerbyRevolution said:

any pay on the day available for this one?

No mention of pay on the day from either club, Derby saying don’t travel if you haven’t got a ticket, shame when there is still seats available.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

Whenever I see Phillips Nelson on the team sheet I can’t help thinking of this!

 

Let's hope they can help us move closer to the top of the table.

[jimtastic56]

23 hours ago, rammieib said:

Ebou looks lost in an attacking midfield role.

Osborn not influencing games enough for me.

NML looks a little lazy at times (no one seems to mention his lazy contribution to Norwich first goal).

I am looking at:

                zetterstrom

Nyambe   Phillips    Cashin   Forsyth

                Adams      Kenzo 

Jackson         Chirewa         CBT

                       Yates

Do I think he will go anywhere near this team? No, not at all.

 

Don’t think NML is lazy , perhaps his legs are going a bit due to age . But it could be that CBT is running into form and deserves a start . Warne does have faith in him . 

[RamsFan10]

                     JWZ

Nyambe Phillips Cashin Forsyth

  Goudmijn Adams Osborn

    Harness Yates Jackson

[DE56Ram]

Three at the back with Wilson and Fozzy at wing backs 

Adam’s and Kenzo 

jackson and harness 

yates up top

we’ll bring summat back I just feel it COYR 

[Ambitious]

I'm not worried about away form, over the course of Warne's reign at Derby the home and away form hasn't been too dissimilar. 

Blackburn have won all four of their home games, Watford & Sheff Utd are unbeaten at home. We now have Sunderland, who have also won all their home games so far. It's a simple case of coming up against teams who have started the season well and going into their ground and not doing enough to win the game. 

I'd be delighted with a point at Sunderland, but the smart money is another defeat - I don't think that's particularly on our approach play. If anything we've always been set-up to be as successful away from home as we are at home. 

[Jourdan]

Zetterstrom

Wilson - Phillips - Cashin - Forsyth

Adams - Goudmijn

Jackson - Chirewa - Harness

Yates

Three games in a week is a big ask for us. We need to use the squad.

[Eoghan1884]

Looking at the next two games we should focus on having a 4-3-3 at home to QPR with Nyame and Forsyth as fullbacks and NML and Jackson as our wingers. Peeling back from that I’d try rest 3 or 4 of them so they’re flying on Saturday and tomorrow will be an ugly game regardless.

 

[jono]

My question when we all get down to our prefered team is what are they up against ? Ebou will always be an automatic pick because he’s a warrior but who goes in at left back / right back depends .. have they got sparky wide players and will the wrong choice give them an added advantage in a certain area. I wonder when Warne picks a team is he thinking “X is going to get bullied” or “Y can capitalise on their slowcoach in that position” .. does that happen ? It must. So what do we know about them ?