Paul Warne, managers and plan

[YorkshireRam]

18 hours ago, Chris_Martin said:

but if you move any player to no.10 they will get more goals and assists, doesn't prove you've improved them as a playe

I think Jason Knight was actually more prolific in a midfield 3 under Cocu than he was as a #10 under Rooney/Warne?

I think a really balanced take is this: Bristol seem to be having great joy playing Knight behind Bird as a #4. This implies since they broke through for us, we played them the wrong way round!

Cocu managed to field Knight in his best position, whilst Warne has seemingly found Bird's. Credit to both managers for progressing these players- the interesting implication there is that it was Rooney who failed to get the best out of either? 🤔

[Chopper]

I'd like to hope that Warne wants to release the shackles somewhat, but he also strikes me as pragmatic and risk averse (to be fair if my job protection was minimal and a vocal percentage of my customers hated me I'd be risk averse). Once he is confident that he has his players, and that we are comfortably not a bottom 3 team, he may start building a more expansive team, taking risks with that secure backdrop of Owner support and Championship survival. Note that with all his promotions in the past he's never really been in that position the following season.

I can see a bit of frustration down the road when we get players like Kenzo for instance, who may develop the quality to be part of an exciting team at the top end of the Championship, and we sell them for profit to an exciting team at the top end of the Championship. Players who although signed by Warne and his team doesn't fit naturally into this pragmatic playing style. This could then be compounded when, as a generalisation, we consider ourselves as "bigger" than all bar a couple of clubs in this league (let's be honest top 20 in England), and the buying club is then seen as a step down. If our rationale for the player leaving isn't a bigger club or a higher league then the manager will get pelters I'd imagine.

[DCFC Kicks]

18 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Maybe the worst take ever on a football forum

So judging by these stats Portsmouth performed better away vs Leeds than we did at home vs Boro. 

I never said Portsmouth or Oxford we amazing. I said they were better and more progressive than us. 

You also took my point about data out of context. That was in response to the previous poster not believing Transfermarkt prices. 

Bet you felt really big making that over-the-top accusation didn't you. Try reading more carefully next time.

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, DCFC Kicks said:

So judging by these stats Portsmouth performed better away vs Leeds than we did at home vs Boro. 

I never said Portsmouth or Oxford we amazing. I said they were better and more progressive than us. 

You also took my point about data out of context. That was in response to the previous poster not believing Transfermarkt prices. 

Bet you felt really big making that over-the-top accusation didn't you. Try reading more carefully next time.

They're obviously trying too hard if they only managed a draw then 😂 

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, DCFC Kicks said:

So judging by these stats Portsmouth performed better away vs Leeds than we did at home vs Boro. 

I never said Portsmouth or Oxford we amazing. I said they were better and more progressive than us. 

You also took my point about data out of context. That was in response to the previous poster not believing Transfermarkt prices. 

Bet you felt really big making that over-the-top accusation didn't you. Try reading more carefully next time.

You said:

"Why are the other two promoted teams playing better football with more possession then? They both have lower squad values than us."

When challenged on this, you said you had watched one Pompey game. Not only a ridiculously small sample size to draw this conclusion by, but also a game where they had very little position too. You also said there were few seconds from winning, where they were also actually a few seconds from losing, as Leeds missed a golden chance with the last kick of the game. A Leeds fan I know almost laughed the result off, as they had missed so many chances he wasn't worried in the slightest.

Knowing how much you love the data, I've then analysed every other post on all football forums ever. My analysis clearly shows that your comment was officially the worst take ever, even considering all the Lpool/Arsenal etc conspiracy theories against them.

 

[europia]

14 hours ago, S8TY said:

Warne has been labelled a L1 specialist but I think its fair to say the jury is out regarding his abilities in the Championship

Football is ruthless and I personally think we must not be involved in a relegation scrap

We might not have the money and resources etc etc but regardless of that the aim has to be to not get relegated as we'd be back to square one 

Whether it's Warne or not we need a manager to get the best out of what we have and to be able to compete at this level

Can see the benefit of Warne's work with our set pieces but we must improve with keeping the ball better and being braver individually and as a team

To be fair to Warne he said the right things after the game regarding how he evaluated our game against Watford but we must improve certain aspects of our game

Although some don't see the benefits of possession I still believe you have more chance of winning games if you actually have the ball but not sure Warne sees it as a problem 

Time will tell this season but if we are struggling come Christmas it has to be looked at surely by DC as I think with good game plans and management we should be able to stay up in this division, relegation is not an option 

Tend to agree with your comments. Warney is considered a L1 specialist as that's where he's been a high achiever. He was given a 4yr contract by Clowes, maybe that was the demand made by PW, rather than the owners long term confidence? The club obviously is not in a financial position to be paying up contracts, so for all concerned it has to be hoped that the current management team are deemed a success.

[littleover ram]

last few seasons we've needed 10+ first team players in every summer. Will help with stability not needing so much turnover every season.

We may well go back down to League One this season but we'll not need a huge squad overhaul and can add quality instead of just numbers

It's going to be a long time before we're competing around the championship play off places again though 

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, littleover ram said:

last few seasons we've needed 10+ first team players in every summer. Will help with stability not needing so much turnover every season.

We may well go back down to League One this season but we'll not need a huge squad overhaul and can add quality instead of just numbers

It's going to be a long time before we're competing around the championship play off places again though 

This isn't what Clowes was suggesting though is it?

[Black ('n' White) Sheep]

The goal every season has to be to improve on the last...

This season stay in the league

Next season finish 12th-15th

The season after a top half finish

The season after that push on for play-offs/promotion

4 years should be enough to build a solid squad based on a mix of sensible fees, unearthing gems and bringing through youth from the academy. I'd say the management team would be safe unless any of these targets comes seriously under threat.

 

Saying all of that, would I prefer playing fancier football and it all getting done quicker... of course! 🤣

[BPV]

47 minutes ago, littleover ram said:

last few seasons we've needed 10+ first team players in every summer. Will help with stability not needing so much turnover every season.

We may well go back down to League One this season but we'll not need a huge squad overhaul and can add quality instead of just numbers

It's going to be a long time before we're competing around the championship play off places again though 

A large amount of this is Warnes fault though isn’t it? 
We had a considerable wage budget for league one and he chose to use it to sign mostly experienced pros the wrong side of 30. It ultimately succeeded in getting us promoted to his credit.

However it does leave us in a situation that I feel a lot of fans are frustrated with.

Massive squad overhaul yet again. Having to spread our money over many targets instead of being able to add quality to our existing squad. 
Having little resale value in the playing squad overall. 
 

Regardless of the individual signings, the overall strategy needs to be looked at more creatively. 

[Donkey Derby]

8 hours ago, BPV said:

A large amount of this is Warnes fault though isn’t it? 
We had a considerable wage budget for league one and he chose to use it to sign mostly experienced pros the wrong side of 30. It ultimately succeeded in getting us promoted to his credit.

However it does leave us in a situation that I feel a lot of fans are frustrated with.

Massive squad overhaul yet again. Having to spread our money over many targets instead of being able to add quality to our existing squad. 
Having little resale value in the playing squad overall. 
 

Regardless of the individual signings, the overall strategy needs to be looked at more creatively. 

Think you need to relook at who signed who as if you look at signings post admin, Warne is trying to lower the squads average age.

 

22/23 - 10 players signed only 3 were under 29. Warne though didn't sign any of these players as all were signed by Rosey

 

23/24 - 11 players signed permanently - 7 were under 29

 

24/25 - 5 players signed permanently - 3 were under 29

 

[Srg]

17 minutes ago, Donkey Derby said:

Think you need to relook at who signed who as if you look at signings post admin, Warne is trying to lower the squads average age.

 

22/23 - 10 players signed only 3 were under 29. Warne though didn't sign any of these players as all were signed by Rosey

 

23/24 - 11 players signed permanently - 7 were under 29

 

24/25 - 5 players signed permanently - 3 were under 29

 

Not done a great job of it this summer. Only 1 outfield signing under 28. 

[Tamworthram]

22 minutes ago, Srg said:

Not done a great job of it this summer. Only 1 outfield signing under 28. 

If we’re looking at the squad of players available to play this season then surely you have to include season long loans. In which case, I make it three under 28.

[Srg]

8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

If we’re looking at the squad of players available to play this season then surely you have to include season long loans. In which case, I make it three under 28.

Not really when I’m talking about building for the future, which not just includes squad continuity but the hope of developing a player into a big money sale - which, let’s face it, is the only real way to compete in this league right now. 

[Crewton]

55 minutes ago, Srg said:

Not done a great job of it this summer. Only 1 outfield signing under 28. 

Don't highly rated Swedish goalkeepers count?

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Don't highly rated Swedish goalkeepers count?

Not in outfield players, last I checked.

Goalkeeper is the one position where you can afford to be older, and unless you’re English; they don’t tend to translate to big money sales unfortunately. 

[Crewton]

6 minutes ago, Srg said:

Not in outfield players, last I checked.

Goalkeeper is the one position where you can afford to be older, and unless you’re English; they don’t tend to translate to big money sales unfortunately. 

Sounds like Arsenal overpaid for David Raya from Brentford then : £3m loan fee followed by £27m to complete the permanent transfer. Staggering really, because I thought he had a lot of mistakes in him when he first played for Brentford.

[Tamworthram]

31 minutes ago, Srg said:

Not really when I’m talking about building for the future, which not just includes squad continuity but the hope of developing a player into a big money sale - which, let’s face it, is the only real way to compete in this league right now. 

Fair point. I was thinking more in terms of athleticism and ability to cope physically on the pitch.

I guess, until/unless our scouting network improves, we’re hampered by our finances. We can’t afford as many young players of the right quality as we’d perhaps like. The academy has always been a source of good young players but of course, as we all know, this has had to go through a rebuild as well.

[DRBee]

On 25/08/2024 at 09:36, Tyler Durden said:

There's plenty on this thread whom seem to think they know more than Paul Warne about managing a football club, tactics and recruitment.

Would suggest they fill their boots, or as an alternative more appealing proposal wind their necks in. 

I am not against Warne but this is a typically stupid comment from you that belies all your attempts to take the high ground and be the "sensible one". 

Should we all fill in a form stating our qualifications before we are allowed to post our views on here ? Its a supporters forum and the purpose is to allow us to share our opinions sound or otherwise. For the record many managers fail and supporters can often see what is going wrong well before they get the sack. Its not like there is only one way of managing a club  - all managers have choices.

The criticism of Warne by some supporters this season has been unjustified  but that is what you get on a forum.

 

[Tyler Durden]

5 minutes ago, DRBee said:

I am not against Warne but this is a typically stupid comment from you that belies all your attempts to take the high ground and be the "sensible one". 

Compared to some of the comments on this thread I thought it was a pretty intelligent one.

But that's just me.