Investment

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Raich Carter said:

Ok, so are you saying that Tony Bloom is making a mistake investing so heavily or that in your opinion, it's a wise investment? Sort of a rhetorical question but that's what I was on about really. It was a general point and BHA seemed a reasonable example - which you then decided to try and tear down 🙂

The wisdom point was general really. Doesn't mean the millionaires are always right of course but typically, they've got rich for a reason was my point - i.e. perhaps Tony Bloom knows what he's doing or he's doing a Jack Hayward - that was all.

Yeah. I think there's nowadays with the huge sums involved in football a cross-section of 'old style' football owners, liked the kudos and hob-nobbing of the matches, a bit like the fans meeting up on a Saturday, but posher 'executive style' and the financial owners (not sure how to style them) who are investors and business people. Do either end of the spectrum have to enjoy football, I'm not sure. 🙂

Isn't David Clowes really a pilot, inherited the business that his dad built (don't think his dad was called Jack 😉 )? But that's okay because we've someone running the business that has a good background in football. However the Club is owned by Clowes Developments so maybe we'll be run at the investor end rather than the kudos end, we'll see. #COYR

[Foreveram]

50 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

Ok, so are you saying that Tony Bloom is making a mistake investing so heavily or that in your opinion, it's a wise investment? Sort of a rhetorical question but that's what I was on about really. It was a general point and BHA seemed a reasonable example - which you then decided to try and tear down 🙂

The wisdom point was general really. Doesn't mean the millionaires are always right of course but typically, they've got rich for a reason was my point - i.e. perhaps Tony Bloom knows what he's doing or he's doing a Jack Hayward - that was all.

You’re the one that’s making all the assumptions, I don’t give a toss what Tony Bloom does with his money.

People bang on about how well run Brighton is and we should copy their business model.

They are only where they are because of his half a billion pounds investment, and are totally reliant on him to survive, do you really think that is a good business model.

They only recently repaid him £33 million because they have made a a profit on player sales, the first time they have paid him anything back, and they are still £373 million pounds in debt.

 

 

[Raich Carter]

15 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

You’re the one that’s making all the assumptions, I don’t give a toss what Tony Bloom does with his money.

People bang on about how well run Brighton is and we should copy their business model.

They are only where they are because of his half a billion pounds investment, and are totally reliant on him to survive, do you really think that is a good business model.

They only recently repaid him £33 million because they have made a a profit on player sales, the first time they have paid him anything back, and they are still £373 million pounds in debt.

 

 

Kinell mate. Thought you weren't wound up. Conversation done. You were right, I was wrong. Happy now?

[Foreveram]

2 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

Kinell mate. Thought you weren't wound up. Conversation done. You were right, I was wrong. Happy now?

I was happy before thanks. 
I quoted a fact, you queried it, I expanded my explanation, I thought that was what debate is supposed to be 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Raich Carter]

9 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

I was happy before thanks. 
I quoted a fact, you queried it, I expanded my explanation, I thought that was what debate is supposed to be 🤷🏻‍♂️

Your tone is way off kilter for me. I'm not looking for a debate - more of a friendly discussion about football but anyway, I'll get back to lurking. 

[Foreveram]

10 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

Your tone is way off kilter for me. I'm not looking for a debate - more of a friendly discussion about football but anyway, I'll get back to lurking. 

That’s the internet for you, I’d like to think I’m a reasonably friendly chap in real life.

 I thought friendly discussion and debate were much the same thing so no reason to stop posting.

Obviously people disagree, that’s why we have match day threads lasting a week 🙂

[Mihangel]

15 hours ago, Raich Carter said:

And the other fella:

Blimey. Ok - why is everyone so wound up by this. BHA are doing well (fact - most successful they've ever been) and it's likely the owners will get a return on their investment. You have absolutely no more idea than I whether that's true or not because your crystal ball is as good as mine.

What we do know is that you're questioning the wisdom of highly successful multimillionaires. I can't imagine you're not one and neither am I so what the eff do we know. It's a bit like all these people saying Elon Musk is an idiot - perhaps - but a very rich, very successful, game changing idiot. 

I don't think anyone is getting wound up, we're having a discussion and some are challenging your argument, there's nothing wrong with that!

There's no doubting that Brighton are doing historically well, there's also no doubting that Tony Bloom has spent 1/2 a billion pounds on getting them there. He's a lifelong Brighton fan, I don't believe that he expects a return on that investment - To do so would mean someone thinks that they can spend in excess of that 1/2 billion AND make a return on that. That's not happening.

In the absence of any specified criteria, 'well run' is a subjective matter and is why I mentioned Brighton's humungous debt, it can't be ignored. Any suggestion that Brighton's success if somehow 'organic' and not based on spaffing 100s of millions is entirely incorrect and as others have mentioned they're entirely beholden to Bloom and reliant on him not pulling the plug. The good news for them is that he has extremely deep pockets and is very unlikely to do so.

[Mucker1884]

5 hours ago, MadAmster said:

... called Roy? Any road up, I don't give an S

It's short for Rosemary.

Any road up, I ain't got thyme for this!

[jimtastic56]

As for Tony Bloom - he has a lot of money invested in horse racing also . He is clearly somebody who is not scared of taking a gamble . His new manager likes Rutter from Leeds , so out came £40 mill from his back pocket . 

[MadAmster]

47 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

It's short for Rosemary.

Any road up, I ain't got thyme for this!

A very sage thought.

[Carl Sagan]

I was surprised to see a funding round for Watford today on the Seedrs/Revolution early investors platform. They put out a share issue to raise £2m and it's quickly been over subscribed with around £4m promised so far. Might be something for DC to consider. As well as equity in the club (which they value at £175m), there are interesting investor perks:

>£250 and you get a free scarf

>£5k you get that plus a shirt, hospitality for 2 once a season and separately 2 seats in a box once a season, plus a training ground tour

>£50k you get all that plus dinner with a couple of players once a season and a draw to stay in the team hotel for one game, plus a fair few other bits including playing on the pitch post season

>£800k all that and much more besides

How helpful would it be for DC to raise, say £2m this way? Or are we looking for much more significant input?

 

 

 

[Comrade 86]

On 22/08/2024 at 09:04, Foreveram said:

You’re the one that’s making all the assumptions, I don’t give a toss what Tony Bloom does with his money.

People bang on about how well run Brighton is and we should copy their business model.

They are only where they are because of his half a billion pounds investment, and are totally reliant on him to survive, do you really think that is a good business model.

They only recently repaid him £33 million because they have made a a profit on player sales, the first time they have paid him anything back, and they are still £373 million pounds in debt.

 

 

Their current debt amounts to more than the Clowes family's entire net worth. I think folk, myself included, see Brighton selling players for huge numbers and assume all is rosy in the garden. Looking at those figures though, that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm shocked to be honest! 

[Ghost of Clough]

16 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

I was surprised to see a funding round for Watford today on the Seedrs/Revolution early investors platform. They put out a share issue to raise £2m and it's quickly been over subscribed with around £4m promised so far. Might be something for DC to consider. As well as equity in the club (which they value at £175m), there are interesting investor perks:

>£250 and you get a free scarf

>£5k you get that plus a shirt, hospitality for 2 once a season and separately 2 seats in a box once a season, plus a training ground tour

>£50k you get all that plus dinner with a couple of players once a season and a draw to stay in the team hotel for one game, plus a fair few other bits including playing on the pitch post season

>£800k all that and much more besides

How helpful would it be for DC to raise, say £2m this way? Or are we looking for much more significant input?

£50k seems a lot to have dinner with a couple of players when I could probably pop round for a bbq with one of our players free of charge 😅

[jimtastic56]

16 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Their current debt amounts to more than the Clowes family's entire net worth. I think folk, myself included, see Brighton selling players for huge numbers and assume all is rosy in the garden. Looking at those figures though, that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm shocked to be honest! 

David Clowes has a brother that runs the Company with him . There may be other family members who have a share . ( They may not be Rams fans ). It looks like D C has committed a large chunk of his wealth into DCFC . He is not playing with his loose change . So even more thanks must go his way . 

[Wignall12]

23 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

 

 

Edited August 23 by Wignall12
Beat me to it

[europia]

8 hours ago, jimtastic56 said:

David Clowes has a brother that runs the Company with him . There may be other family members who have a share . ( They may not be Rams fans ). It looks like D C has committed a large chunk of his wealth into DCFC . He is not playing with his loose change . So even more thanks must go his way . 

Highly likely that Clowes sees himself as the 'interim one' and is hoping that a serious and credible investor from USA, China, Middle East takes the bait in the long term. 

[LeedsCityRam]

20 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I was surprised to see a funding round for Watford today on the Seedrs/Revolution early investors platform. They put out a share issue to raise £2m and it's quickly been over subscribed with around £4m promised so far. Might be something for DC to consider. As well as equity in the club (which they value at £175m), there are interesting investor perks:

>£250 and you get a free scarf

>£5k you get that plus a shirt, hospitality for 2 once a season and separately 2 seats in a box once a season, plus a training ground tour

>£50k you get all that plus dinner with a couple of players once a season and a draw to stay in the team hotel for one game, plus a fair few other bits including playing on the pitch post season

>£800k all that and much more besides

How helpful would it be for DC to raise, say £2m this way? Or are we looking for much more significant input?

 

 

 

Checked with a Watford mate & original offering was very different...theit owners were seeking 17.4m & got 3.8m, mostly from US speculators. Apparently theit fan groups organised a fan boycott of the scheme given the distrust of Pozzos there.

That said, I like the general principle for Derby with this particular ownership (clearly wouldn't have worked under Morris by contrast). Some form of imvestor bond or equity ownership with preferential protection might raise a few million especially if high net worth Derby fans are sounded out. Ultimately Id love to see Derby as a substantially fan owned club & the short term cash injection could be enough to secure the signings (short term & long term) to enable the sustainable strategic plan going forward.

[CBRammette]

On 22/08/2024 at 10:59, Mihangel said:

I don't think anyone is getting wound up, we're having a discussion and some are challenging your argument, there's nothing wrong with that!

There's no doubting that Brighton are doing historically well, there's also no doubting that Tony Bloom has spent 1/2 a billion pounds on getting them there. He's a lifelong Brighton fan, I don't believe that he expects a return on that investment - To do so would mean someone thinks that they can spend in excess of that 1/2 billion AND make a return on that. That's not happening.

In the absence of any specified criteria, 'well run' is a subjective matter and is why I mentioned Brighton's humungous debt, it can't be ignored. Any suggestion that Brighton's success if somehow 'organic' and not based on spaffing 100s of millions is entirely incorrect and as others have mentioned they're entirely beholden to Bloom and reliant on him not pulling the plug. The good news for them is that he has extremely deep pockets and is very unlikely to do so.

Surely risk not entirely dependent on him deciding to pull plug - lots of potential changes in circumstances to him could make life difficult for club. 

[Foreveram]

9 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Surely risk not entirely dependent on him deciding to pull plug - lots of potential changes in circumstances to him could make life difficult for club. 

Wigan Athletic springs to mind, and to a lesser extent, Blackburn Rovers and Reading.

[Ambitious]

Are we really discussing the merits of Tony Bloom’s ownership of Brighton?

By every metric he’s arguably the most successful football owner this country has ever seen. He’s took what many considered to be a non-entity in the football league and made them one of the most fashionable, established clubs in the Premier League. Of course, it costs money but what he’s invested personally, which includes £100m for the stadium, but he will have offset significantly based on the current value of Brighton. If he went to sell them now he would probably get close to £600m. They probably have over £200m worth in intangible assets, if not more.  

Ignoring all of that anyway, he’s been brilliant for English football. Brighton has been an excellent club for developing talent in the past decade, the investment he’s put in has enriched the game in this country. He’s a pioneer in many ways. 

He’s a brilliant owner.