Academy Thread 2024/2025

[Ghost of Clough]

Hattrick completed ✅️ Ebuka scores again in the 50th minute.

4-2

[Ghost of Clough]

6-2 with 10 mins to play.

Eames gets his brace and Oguntolu gets his 6th of the season

Osong, Green and Mintus came on for JRichards, Agustien and Oguntolu

[Eoghan1884]

The u18s have a good start to the season, shame they couldn’t beat Newcastle last week.

Oguntula, Ebuka and Eames have 11 goals in 3 games between them. 

[angieram]

Cracking start to the season, this.

Also under 21s looked very competitive last night, with a couple of players missing.

Wheeldon is a big strong centre forward who can hold up the ball and did it very effectively last night. 

[IlsonDerby]

We’re winning everything in 5 years time. 

[Comrade 86]

Props to the new academy coaching staff. I thought we'd dropped a brick letting Wassall go after the success he brought us, though I'm told behind the scenes, all was not rosy in our garden. We seem to be back up and running at speed again now and while I don't see as many games as in years gone by, there's a good few who look seriously exciting.

Question with actual ties to the academy; someone posted on the main threads that folk (parents I guess) are not happy with the career progression paths to the men's team. Is this idle gossip, or does the suggestion reflect the truth? I'd hate to see us lose another golden generation, being the reasoning behind my asking.

[roboto]

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

Props to the new academy coaching staff. I thought we'd dropped a brick letting Wassall go after the success he brought us, though I'm told behind the scenes, all was not rosy in our garden. We seem to be back up and running at speed again now and while I don't see as many games as in years gone by, there's a good few who look seriously exciting.

Question with actual ties to the academy; someone posted on the main threads that folk (parents I guess) are not happy with the career progression paths to the men's team. Is this idle gossip, or does the suggestion reflect the truth? I'd hate to see us lose another golden generation, being the reasoning behind my asking.

This is complete guesswork/speculation, but I’d say that those with immediate paths “blocked” to the first team are in our u21 team. This group haven’t really shown as much promise as some of the lads in the u18 group IMO.

With the younger lads there is more time to integrate and find gaps to fit them into the squad and a lot of our current first team won’t be about by the time this crop is ready, so I think there will be opportunities if we plan the squad strategy accordingly and the players develop as planned.

[BondJovi]

7 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Props to the new academy coaching staff. I thought we'd dropped a brick letting Wassall go after the success he brought us, though I'm told behind the scenes, all was not rosy in our garden. We seem to be back up and running at speed again now and while I don't see as many games as in years gone by, there's a good few who look seriously exciting.

Question with actual ties to the academy; someone posted on the main threads that folk (parents I guess) are not happy with the career progression paths to the men's team. Is this idle gossip, or does the suggestion reflect the truth? I'd hate to see us lose another golden generation, being the reasoning behind my asking.

The only thing I heard behind the scenes regarding DW was it being seen as a doddle, jobs for the boys type thing. Whether that was a result of MM or not I don't know. 

As for the pathway. This remains an area of PWs management that concerns me. I say this purely as an outsider. But if you look at the minutes given to academy players under PW it is shockingly low. He has had opportunites to give minutes and turned it down. I would be amazed if we give out many minutes this season to any academy player other than Brown. When you consider the minutes that Palace afforded to Ozoh last season, and Wolves to Chirewa, that sort of time should be happening with our own players.

You could make the argument that there isn't anyone really ready, but even so I think we should be showing to the outside that we give chances. I always believed that once DC confirmed the keeping of Cat1, we would be in a great position to give plenty of chances as we aren't under the same pressures as the premier league teams. I saw that this might give us the edge over other Cat1 academies. But it seems that isn't the case. From a financial view point, it makes no sense to invest in a cat1 and not utilise some of those players to fill out the squad. But also we are then not putting any in the shop window to potentially sell. We could save on wages and make money from any sales. Let us not forget that our u21s are competing with the likes of Wolves, Man City and so and just about holding their own. Why does the manager trust players from those clubs but not our own?

The Barrow game was a great example of the concerns I have. Collins should not have started that game. There should have been more players from the academy on the bench. 

Whilst I enjoyed the approach Cocu took, I am not asking that much of a change for cup games, but that straight away showed a huge amount of faith. It will be very interesting to see how Brown is used between now and January, it is a great opportunity for him, but also a huge chance for PW to show trust and faith in our youth. I just don't see a long term plan in this area. It still feels like a first team and everything below that is a seperate entity. The Wolves cup game last year should have been the stepping board but we wasted it.

Just my thoughts. Would love for PW to prove me wrong because I enjoy so much else of his management.

[Dex]

21 hours ago, BondJovi said:

The only thing I heard behind the scenes regarding DW was it being seen as a doddle, jobs for the boys type thing. Whether that was a result of MM or not I don't know. 

As for the pathway. This remains an area of PWs management that concerns me. I say this purely as an outsider. But if you look at the minutes given to academy players under PW it is shockingly low. He has had opportunites to give minutes and turned it down. I would be amazed if we give out many minutes this season to any academy player other than Brown. When you consider the minutes that Palace afforded to Ozoh last season, and Wolves to Chirewa, that sort of time should be happening with our own players.

You could make the argument that there isn't anyone really ready, but even so I think we should be showing to the outside that we give chances. I always believed that once DC confirmed the keeping of Cat1, we would be in a great position to give plenty of chances as we aren't under the same pressures as the premier league teams. I saw that this might give us the edge over other Cat1 academies. But it seems that isn't the case. From a financial view point, it makes no sense to invest in a cat1 and not utilise some of those players to fill out the squad. But also we are then not putting any in the shop window to potentially sell. We could save on wages and make money from any sales. Let us not forget that our u21s are competing with the likes of Wolves, Man City and so and just about holding their own. Why does the manager trust players from those clubs but not our own?

The Barrow game was a great example of the concerns I have. Collins should not have started that game. There should have been more players from the academy on the bench. 

Whilst I enjoyed the approach Cocu took, I am not asking that much of a change for cup games, but that straight away showed a huge amount of faith. It will be very interesting to see how Brown is used between now and January, it is a great opportunity for him, but also a huge chance for PW to show trust and faith in our youth. I just don't see a long term plan in this area. It still feels like a first team and everything below that is a seperate entity. The Wolves cup game last year should have been the stepping board but we wasted it.

Just my thoughts. Would love for PW to prove me wrong because I enjoy so much else of his management.

I think we might be forgetting just how ravaged our academy was through administration. We're probably not blessed with the levels we need to even be worth putting them in the squad.

We were forced to sell the players that would probably be just about be ready to make the first team such as Kaide Gordon (now 19 years old), Omari Kellyman (now 18 years old), Dylan Williams (now 20 years old) and even Luke Plange (now 21 years old). They'd been in the academy system long enough and might have even broken into the squad earlier than expected. 

Without those talents though, we're having to rebuild from around the U16s. I always thought it'd take about 3-4 years before we started getting some players back through again. Dajaune Brown is showing some signs, but it's still early days.

I just don't think we should rush it.

[Anag Ram]

21 hours ago, BondJovi said:

The only thing I heard behind the scenes regarding DW was it being seen as a doddle, jobs for the boys type thing. Whether that was a result of MM or not I don't know. 

As for the pathway. This remains an area of PWs management that concerns me. I say this purely as an outsider. But if you look at the minutes given to academy players under PW it is shockingly low. He has had opportunites to give minutes and turned it down. I would be amazed if we give out many minutes this season to any academy player other than Brown. When you consider the minutes that Palace afforded to Ozoh last season, and Wolves to Chirewa, that sort of time should be happening with our own players.

You could make the argument that there isn't anyone really ready, but even so I think we should be showing to the outside that we give chances. I always believed that once DC confirmed the keeping of Cat1, we would be in a great position to give plenty of chances as we aren't under the same pressures as the premier league teams. I saw that this might give us the edge over other Cat1 academies. But it seems that isn't the case. From a financial view point, it makes no sense to invest in a cat1 and not utilise some of those players to fill out the squad. But also we are then not putting any in the shop window to potentially sell. We could save on wages and make money from any sales. Let us not forget that our u21s are competing with the likes of Wolves, Man City and so and just about holding their own. Why does the manager trust players from those clubs but not our own?

The Barrow game was a great example of the concerns I have. Collins should not have started that game. There should have been more players from the academy on the bench. 

Whilst I enjoyed the approach Cocu took, I am not asking that much of a change for cup games, but that straight away showed a huge amount of faith. It will be very interesting to see how Brown is used between now and January, it is a great opportunity for him, but also a huge chance for PW to show trust and faith in our youth. I just don't see a long term plan in this area. It still feels like a first team and everything below that is a seperate entity. The Wolves cup game last year should have been the stepping board but we wasted it.

Just my thoughts. Would love for PW to prove me wrong because I enjoy so much else of his management.

Playing every game as if it’s utterly crucial is unsustainable. That’s why it’s important that we rotate the squad for cup competitions.

Those that start have a real incentive to perform and show the manager they should be playing league games.

It’s no surprise when regular first team players underperform in front of three men and a dog against lower opposition on a week night.

Let’s keep the first team fresh and injury free and tell the other squad members they can take us to Wembley.

[richinspain]

19 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Playing every game as if it’s utterly crucial is unsustainable. That’s why it’s important that we rotate the squad for cup competitions.

Those that start have a real incentive to perform and show the manager they should be playing league games.

It’s no surprise when regular first team players underperform in front of three men and a dog against lower opposition on a week night.

Let’s keep the first team fresh and injury free and tell the other squad members they can take us to Wembley.

And then get dropped for the final because we put the first team out in the hope of winning it, or risk the wrath of the fans for putting a weakened team out!

[Anag Ram]

1 minute ago, richinspain said:

And then get dropped for the final because we put the first team out in the hope of winning it, or risk the wrath of the fans for putting a weakened team out!

You’d hope not, if the ‘B’ team had taken us that far. In truth, injuries would most likely dictate first team players being added along the way.

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, Dex said:

I think we might be forgetting just how ravaged our academy was through administration. We're probably not blessed with the levels we need to even be worth putting them in the squad.

We were forced to sell the players that would probably be just about be ready to make the first team such as Kaide Gordon (now 19 years old), Omari Kellyman (now 18 years old), Dylan Williams (now 20 years old) and even Luke Plange (now 21 years old). They'd been in the academy system long enough and might have even broken into the squad earlier than expected. 

Without those talents though, we're having to rebuild from around the U16s. I always thought it'd take about 3-4 years before we started getting some players back through again. Dajaune Brown is showing some signs, but it's still early days.

I just don't think we should rush it.

DURING admin: Williams, Plange and Kellyman were sold; Festy, Buchanan and Ebiowei all left at the end of their contracts; Ryan and Eze chose to leave. I think it's also worth noting Plange only joined us on trial in the March before admin, whilst Ebiowei joined us a week before admin

In the 3 years between the 2018 U18 intake (containing Cashin, Festy, Sibley, LThompson) and the 2022 intake (DBrown), no player has been given a meaningful amount of game time in the first team.
Other than Delap, Williams and Gordon (only one of which left us during or after admin) there was a lack of potential in the groups. Ebiowei was a late addition Cybulski had a few sub apps under Rooney and that's about it. DRobinson absolutely should have been used more than he was in cup competitions over the past 2 years, and brought off the bench when suitable. Fapetu made a very good impression on his only first team start (albeit against a Wovles U21 side), yet only got 2 sub late sub apps over the next few weeks and never seen again. Evans also falls into this age group, but needs more first team experience first (as is usually the case for keepers)

We're now at a stage where the 4th intake, following Cashin and Sibley, who have become first year pros. There are a number of players in this group who we have high hopes for, and as part of their development should be given first team exposure (for us). This experience will help them when they go out on loan over the next couple of years. It's a similar path to most youngsters - look at Ozoh and Chirewa as the most recent examples.

[Animal is a Ram]

 

Edited September 2 by Animal is a Ram

[Ambitious]

Just read that Cruz Allen scored from around the halfway line for Wales earlier today, scored twice in the game. 

[Carl Sagan]

11 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Just read that Cruz Allen scored from around the halfway line for Wales earlier today, scored twice in the game. 

Why wasn't he on the bench when Warne only named 8 subs against Watford? Obviously a great talent. 

[Ghost of Clough]

14 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Why wasn't he on the bench when Warne only named 8 subs against Watford? Obviously a great talent. 

He played vs Man City U21s the night before. Didn't Osborn suffer a late injury ruling him out of the squad?

[Carl Sagan]

8 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He played vs Man City U21s the night before. Didn't Osborn suffer a late injury ruling him out of the squad?

In this instance, I wouldn't care (and I'm certain Cruz wouldn't care) that he'd played a game on the Friday. He'd want to make the short trip to Watford and to be with the first team. This is the stuff of young dreams. There's benefit in that he doesn't have time to be nervous. And it shows the high regard the club holds him in. If not Cruz, another academy player, but it is him who has caught the eye over time. If he's poached, having already taken his place with the first team surely also adds to his value. 

[Foreveram]

12 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

In this instance, I wouldn't care (and I'm certain Cruz wouldn't care) that he'd played a game on the Friday. He'd want to make the short trip to Watford and to be with the first team. This is the stuff of young dreams. There's benefit in that he doesn't have time to be nervous. And it shows the high regard the club holds him in. If not Cruz, another academy player, but it is him who has caught the eye over time. If he's poached, having already taken his place with the first team surely also adds to his value. 

Watford may be a short trip for you, it took me over 3 hours, 😟plus the team traveled down on the Friday.

[Crewton]

26 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

In this instance, I wouldn't care (and I'm certain Cruz wouldn't care) that he'd played a game on the Friday. He'd want to make the short trip to Watford and to be with the first team. This is the stuff of young dreams. There's benefit in that he doesn't have time to be nervous. And it shows the high regard the club holds him in. If not Cruz, another academy player, but it is him who has caught the eye over time. If he's poached, having already taken his place with the first team surely also adds to his value. 

He's signed his first professional contract with us recently, so he can't be poached in the way that Delap, Gordon etc al were.