Transfer rumours

[richinspain]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That is the overall budget. 

My point was who decided how much a player is worth. How much is too much for a striker? How much would Brown be worth if we sold him? Who decides?

If you're the buyer, then a player is worth what the seller wants. If you're the seller, then a player is worth what the buyer is willing to pay. It's a juggling act somewhere in between. The secret is getting the best result in both cases. As always, if more than one club wants to buy then the price is higher. Also market trends make a difference. Osula going for £15m changes the ballpark somewhat.

[TomTom92]

Its basically the same as last seasons summer, we're having to wait until the final couple of weeks to get loans/frees and for teams to soften their stance.

Think the blame lies with the EFL for allowing this. Elongating the transfer window only benefits the teams in the Football League with money as they can get signings in early.

But the JWZ saga has been a farce from a fan perspective, pre season was depressing and Warne's Championship credentials won't fill the fans with confidence, so us being 4/5 players short and getting walloped 4-2 will only fuel negativity from fans. We're only human after all.

[MadAmster]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That is the overall budget. 

My point was who decided how much a player is worth. How much is too much for a striker? How much would Brown be worth if we sold him? Who decides?

Any player is only worth what another club is willing to pay for him. Too much for any player is likely to be more than a club/owner can afford. Most beer drinking fans would happily 4 quid a pint but at what point do you say "too much" and either not drink or cut back? Same with a player, wages and transfer/loan/agent fee will be an amount. The staff will have their say on how much they think a player is worth and why. The bean counters will have their input. The recruitment team will have their say. Top of the tree? Likely to be Pearce and Clowes who read/hear all the input from various sources and then say yay/nay.

Brown? If we sold him for less than £5M most fans would be up in arms. Reverse the situation, would you pay £5M for him? I would hazard a guess most fans wouldn't as he's unproven at this level.

I hope that answers your question without raising too many others

[Animal is a Ram]

11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Because this is important, which of those two know anything about the cost of players? We all know players cost a lot of money, but who decides what they are worth and how much to pay? The same goes for 'resale value' doesn't it? How can we set ourselves up as a 'selling club' if we don't know how to 'play the game'? Slightly in the wrong thread, but obviously related. 

Because this is arguably more important, who else knows how much we can spend?

Perhaps I'm being a little simplistic - but I don't exactly know how much a used car *should* cost, but if I feel it's more expensive than I can afford, or more expensive than I think it's worth to me, I won't buy it.

For players, they're worth as much as what their club will accept for them, or what a buyer is willing to pay for them, in fee or wages.

[Thameram]

Over inflated values to get around ffp has changed the game for selling clubs if osula and dobbin are going for outrageously over the top fees then it's going to filter down everyone in England is going to try it on 

[DCFC1388]

Isnt there a mini group who discuss transfers, im sure Warne has me tioned it before. I think Warne, Pearce & Thomas are on it & maybe 1 or 2 more. Im sure they all have to agree on a the deal, in or out & anyone of them can veto it.

Id imagine the budget side of things in terms of what is too much etc is agreed between them all but with Pearce having the final say as he will be the one who then goes to Clowes to get it signed off

[StaffsRam]

1 minute ago, Thameram said:

Over inflated values to get around ffp has changed the game for selling clubs if osula and dobbin are going for outrageously over the top fees then it's going to filter down everyone in England is going to try it on 

Which is great for everyone except clubs that don't have a pot to p*** in. 

Of course, the safeguard against that is for those clubs to ensure that they have a steady stream of talent coming up through their academies. Typically for us, the timing means that we're still in the process of replenishing our academy after it was gutted for peanuts. Sh** timing all round.

[MACKWORTHRAM]

10 hours ago, Fraser_23 said:

My initial point was that nothing has been heard/seen in the media in AT LEAST 8 months, so yes, i am slightly sceptical. Why does it take 8 months to sign a type of striker that Warne is so seemingly desperate to sign? surely there’s numerous options out there?

Unless you can shed some light on the situation?  Obviously I know not everything is shared with the media, but i genuinely cannot remember a striker link, with that style of play. 

8 months is a complete irrelevance. Cos of those 8 months the transfer window has been opened for 2 of them.

In January we had a striker in, everything was agreed. The player was on his way (I can't remember if it ever came out who it was) then at 8pm, 3 hours before the window shuts, the manager of the club we were getting the striker from rings Paul Warne and says "Actually, sorry, but I have changed my mind and I am not gonna let him go now"

Nothing Warne or anyone can do about that. When you think you have your man, for the plug to be pulled with 3 hours of the window left, left us with no time at all to try and get someone in. 

This striker was in for the rest of the league season. Then for the rest of that season, we did not know what league we were in until the very last game.

Players have been on holiday, players are at clubs. We will have our targets on who we want that we may have to wait for (3 league games before the window shuts)

Just because something is not coming out in the media, doesn't mean we are not going to bring one in or have targets in mind. 

The striker market is insane at the moment. 

[DCFC1388]

2 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

8 months is a complete irrelevance. Cos of those 8 months the transfer window has been opened for 2 of them.

In January we had a striker in, everything was agreed. The player was on his way (I can't remember if it ever came out who it was) then at 8pm, 3 hours before the window shuts, the manager of the club we were getting the striker from rings Paul Warne and says "Actually, sorry, but I have changed my mind and I am not gonna let him go now"

Nothing Warne or anyone can do about that. When you think you have your man, for the plug to be pulled with 3 hours of the window left, left us with no time at all to try and get someone in. 

This striker was in for the rest of the league season. Then for the rest of that season, we did not know what league we were in until the very last game.

Players have been on holiday, players are at clubs. We will have our targets on who we want that we may have to wait for (3 league games before the window shuts)

Just because something is not coming out in the media, doesn't mean we are not going to bring one in or have targets in mind. 

The striker market is insane at the moment. 

Yeh it did come out, it was Harry Leonard at Blackburn

[Fraser_23]

1 minute ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

8 months is a complete irrelevance. Cos of those 8 months the transfer window has been opened for 2 of them.

In January we had a striker in, everything was agreed. The player was on his way (I can't remember if it ever came out who it was) then at 8pm, 3 hours before the window shuts, the manager of the club we were getting the striker from rings Paul Warne and says "Actually, sorry, but I have changed my mind and I am not gonna let him go now"

Nothing Warne or anyone can do about that. When you think you have your man, for the plug to be pulled with 3 hours of the window left, left us with no time at all to try and get someone in. 

This striker was in for the rest of the league season. Then for the rest of that season, we did not know what league we were in until the very last game.

Players have been on holiday, players are at clubs. We will have our targets on who we want that we may have to wait for (3 league games before the window shuts)

Just because something is not coming out in the media, doesn't mean we are not going to bring one in or have targets in mind. 

The striker market is insane at the moment. 

I’d say 8 months is very relavent as it highlights how long it’s been

I completely get your point, I feel it’s just frustrating that we’ve had this long and none have signed/been close to signing. Always find it frustrating that clubs (not just us) leave deals until the last few days of the windows and then they either, pull the plug as you say, or just fall through, when you have such a long period of time to try and sort them out. 

[Topram]

5 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Isnt there a mini group who discuss transfers, im sure Warne has me tioned it before. I think Warne, Pearce & Thomas are on it & maybe 1 or 2 more. Im sure they all have to agree on a the deal, in or out & anyone of them can veto it.

Id imagine the budget side of things in terms of what is too much etc is agreed between them all but with Pearce having the final say as he will be the one who then goes to Clowes to get it signed off

Yeah they say they get together every week, had one last week and they were meeting again next week according to Pearce but surely with what less than 3 weeks to go they’d be discussing targets more often 

[DCFC1388]

1 minute ago, Topram said:

Yeah they say they get together every week, had one last week and they were meeting again next week according to Pearce but surely with what less than 3 weeks to go they’d be discussing targets more often 

I guess it depends if the players they have spoke about in previous meetings are on our radar still, they would only really need to discuss new targets or outgoings if its someone they havent spoke about before.

They will have already sat down and said we will pay X amount on player A, X amount on player B etc & will be trying to do a deal within those agreed parameters.

[Simmoram2024Ramsrontheup]

20 minutes ago, Thameram said:

Over inflated values to get around ffp has changed the game for selling clubs if osula and dobbin are going for outrageously over the top fees then it's going to filter down everyone in England is going to try it on 

Exactly.

Dembele - one good season in league one now worth - £3m 

Derby literally have no chance to compete money wise so have to be clever.

I’d personally go after Joe Taylor - say £750k- 1M - say he hits 10-15 goals - even if we get relegated we could quote £2-3 M 

personally I’d rather spend a loan fee on Iverson with an obligation to buy + Taylor and maybe Woodrow on a loan + loan fee than spend the quoted £1.4M on JZ. 
 

id be tempted to sell Cashin now if we could get 3-4 M and get a younger premier league loan to cover the position 

[May Contain Nuts]

27 minutes ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

In January we had a striker in, everything was agreed. The player was on his way (I can't remember if it ever came out who it was) then at 8pm, 3 hours before the window shuts, the manager of the club we were getting the striker from rings Paul Warne and says "Actually, sorry, but I have changed my mind and I am not gonna let him go now"

Nothing Warne or anyone can do about that. When you think you have your man, for the plug to be pulled with 3 hours of the window left, left us with no time at all to try and get someone in.

25 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Yeh it did come out, it was Harry Leonard at Blackburn

As it happened, there was. Granted there's a large dollop of hindsight.

Dwight Gayle was sat twiddling his thumbs at Stoke, who'd go on to release him from his contract just before the window closed. We had been linked to him in the press but according to a Dom Dietrich tweet, we weren't actually interested.

They clearly weren't bothered about recouping any money on him so if a team had come in and asked them to arrange his release earlier I'm sure they'd have been amenable. That could and should have been us. Instead we waited and we waited, eding up with our only fit striker (Colins) getting injured, and playing on for about 30 minutes with that injury because we had nobody else, even though we were already 3-0 up after an hour of the game and had all our subs left to make.

When we did sign Gayle after all of this pissing about had happened and everything else had fallen through, he turned out to be the perfect foil for the rest of the team; he offered something a little different and his skillset improved out frontline allowing us to mix up the play a lot more. Smith would have been more of the same and Leonard an unknown.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

I do wonder if the club are waiting in hope for a big money offer for Cashin.

It will be 4 weeks on Friday since we last signed a player, you can throw every excuse out under the sun, but for a club needing 6 more players, that's pretty poor going.

Little old Oxford don't seem to be having to wait until the last 2 days of the window (as Warne keeps hinting at) to make signings.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

33 minutes ago, Simmoram2024Ramsrontheup said:

Exactly.

Dembele - one good season in league one now worth - £3m 

Derby literally have no chance to compete money wise so have to be clever.

I’d personally go after Joe Taylor - say £750k- 1M - say he hits 10-15 goals - even if we get relegated we could quote £2-3 M 

personally I’d rather spend a loan fee on Iverson with an obligation to buy + Taylor and maybe Woodrow on a loan + loan fee than spend the quoted £1.4M on JZ. 
 

id be tempted to sell Cashin now if we could get 3-4 M and get a younger premier league loan to cover the position 

But Iverson apparently eats into our budget more than Zetterstrom does, so your argument falls apart.

[vonwright]

2 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

There are two questions being raised on this thread - why aren't we bringing in players with potential resale value and why no proper no. 9?

I think the answer to both questions is money. Strikers are expensive and any available ones are going to have multiple clubs chasing them. It looks like we don't have £10m to spend and the perfect player, so we have to be creative. Overseas markets, Premier League loans, gambles on dodgy fitness signings or lower league players are going to be the way to go. All of these routes are going to take a lot due diligence and negotiations. 

As for signing younger players with resale value; in truth it's not compatible with our current position. David Clowes wants to be sustainable, which really means restricted spending. Our first priority has to be players who are almost guaranteed to be good enough to keep us in the division. Ben Osborn type signings were always going to be needed to achieve stability.  Great if we can pick up the odd young, cheap and ready for the first team player like Kenzo, but they're a bonus this season. Generally this type of player will either be expensive or not ready and potentially a waste of money if they don't develop. 

I feel resale value will be a far higher priority next year once we have settled Championship squad.

 

 

Yes. Basically in the Championship (and football more generally), it's virtually impossible to set a budget which is both 'sustainable' and 'competitive'.

[Ram@Lincoln]

Just reading that Michael Smith is off to join the Hollywood circus at Wrexham. At least that one is put to bed now.

[Jase116]

Didn't Warne say the main deals were going to be done at the end of the window? I'm sure I heard an interview he did saying this & that they would be our main targets? If that's the case I'd imagine loans & permanent when a selling club has brought someone in first. 

 Or did I dream that? 

[Jimbo Ram]

Anyone signed yet 🤣