UEFA Euro 2024 Thread

[Ram-Alf]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

To me, it looked like his arm moved upwards after the ball was crossed - without that movement, I doubt contact would have been made. Under the current rules, it's a penalty.

VAR isn't the problem this time. It's the current handball rule.

Exactly this, It's in slow motion...ultra slow motion with a snickometer thrown in, The Danish player was doing what we all do when running and turning...we move our arms, We do it for balance take our arms away and we'd fall over, Weren't we told a hand ball has to be deliberate or there has to be a said distance(silhouette)from the ball?

This game changed in 16 seconds by 2 very harsh VAR decisions, The offside I can just about agree with...just, You can't be a little bit pregnant...so a toe nail gets the goal disallowed, The penalty and that no mark Atwell as VAR beggars belief 😡 

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Chester40 said:

Nobody felt that Denmark's goal needed disallowing, on review I still didn't.

Nobody felt Germany deserved a penalty, on review I still didn't.

As Ange said they are re-reffing the game. Badly.

By eye....any benefit goes the attacking team with offsides, and any handball should be deliberate (whether that means making yourself bigger on purpose or whatever). 

Both decisions reviewed when they didn't need to be, and in the spirit of the game were then changed to the wrong decision.

Depressing A F.

Which is why I’ve always felt a tennis / cricket style appeals system would work way better.

if no one on the pitch saw a problem, none of the supposing players felt there was a problem, then what’s the point in trying to find a problem?

that way would take it back to clear and obvious, it would then only be used for the ‘ref, how did you not see that’ situations. 

it would also increase respect, and reduce diving. At the minute, there are no limits on appeals, so players are making that stupid tv signal to the ref all the time. If there was a limit on appeals players would be more careful about when they appeal. 

and isn’t it a rule that only a captain is allowed to speak to the ref? But they never seem to enforce it. I’d be saying only captains and managers can make appeals. And then enforce it strictly with yellow cards for anyone else. 

as @FlyBritishMidland said, car can be a force for good in theory, and it really wouldn’t take a lot to fix it. When they always said ‘they’ve got it in rugby, and cricket, and tennis, and it works well there, we should bring it to football’, but they haven’t brought that model that works to football, they’ve decided to do something stupid and different with it. The model already exists, just follow cricket, there’s no need to reinvent the wheel. It so frustrating that powers that be don’t seem to be able to see that it’s so simple to fix. 

[TigerTedd]

In summary:

change handball back to deliberate hand to ball,

introduce a limited appeal system for var checks, instigated by the captain.

Vote for me on Thursday, I’ll make it happen. 

[Srg]

12 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

In summary:

change handball back to deliberate hand to ball,

introduce a limited appeal system for var checks, instigated by the captain.

Vote for me on Thursday, I’ll make it happen. 

Not sure deliberate works, but there certainly needs to be something about it being more consequential. 

I’ve said that about an appeal system for a while. Get 1 each half, if you’re correct, you keep it. Stops the game being re-refereed constantly, improves the amount of goals that can actually be celebrated and less decisions being given nobody in the entire ground thought about. 

[eddielewis]

I do think whatever comes in terms of a solution towards VAR they also need to lighten to load on how many people are in the referee's headset. Now they have both linesmen, 4th official and VAR crew in their ear it must be such a distraction on the referee's performance and concentration towards the match.

[Grumpy Git]

Given a time machine, I'm certain that if Atwell had been VAR ref in the France v Ireland game, Henry's assist would still have been allowed.

The bloke is a complete joke.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Git said:

Given a time machine, I'm certain that if Atwell had been VAR ref in the France v Ireland game, Henry's assist would still have been allowed.

The bloke is a complete joke.

My mate is in Copenhagen and bought this voodoo doll at the market...under the name Stuart Atwell dolls for sale...he bought the last one 😁

 

[Tamworthram]

3 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

In summary:

change handball back to deliberate hand to ball,

introduce a limited appeal system for var checks, instigated by the captain.

Vote for me on Thursday, I’ll make it happen. 

How would define "deliberate"?

If a player has his arm in an "unnatural position" but not necessarily with the deliberate intention of blocking the ball, would that be "deliberate"? I reckon some players would be crafty enough to make it look accidental.  

[RadioactiveWaste]

My issue with "deliberate" is that it's actually incredibly rare that the defender who gave away the pen for hand ball meant to do it, certainly to the extent that anyone else can be sure they meant it, and I suspect "did it matter" and "did it change the flight of the ball" are more relevant questions. Along with the default "you can't touch the ball with your arm/hands", but there's a little leaway with e.g. the ball kicked at the arm from short range or there's no way to have avoided the contact.

It's how do you formulate the rule the we pretty much all understand so that it works as intended, because once you've written it down, the rule is what's written, not what it's meant to be. One of the parts of the game that VAR has interferred with is the refs autonomy to leave things that are best left, might be technically the wrong call but in the context of the game are fair enough and keep things going. Lets face it, we all prefer a let the game flow ref to a fusspot ref as long as they're being fair to each side.

[YouRams]

How we all feeling then? I'm going to try and be positive, Southgates a football genius and it's coming home, Rice and Kane are right we're all just mean.

[Srg]

Mainoo starting is an improvement on Gallagher, but that’s pretty obvious. Doesn’t solve any of the width, balance or movement issues though. 

[Ram-Alf]

58 minutes ago, YouRams said:

How we all feeling then? I'm going to try and be positive, Southgates a football genius and it's coming home, Rice and Kane are right we're all just mean.

Absolutely tickety boo thanks, Now onto England, Slovakia will pack their defence and move the ball out wide to try and exploit any weaknesses we have, Again we'll struggle to break them down...unless we score early...in that case we'll sit back and hope to defend that 1-0 lead.

But I'll go for a 3-0 win to Engerland 👍  

[Crewton]

I think it was in the Italy-Switzerland game - Italy keeper Donnarumma kicked a Danish player after he'd been fouled by the same player in full view of the ref and everyone watching. It would have made no difference to the result of the game as it happens, but why wasn't Dunnarumma sent off like Beckham was vs Argentina in 1998? I don't think the violent conduct sanctions have changed since those days have they?

The VAR officials interventions in this tournament are VERY selective.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Hoping to see England building their performance levels.

Expecting to see more of the same in truth.

We're approaching the limit of trippiers durability. What do we do at lb when he's run out of steam?

[TigerTedd]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

How would define "deliberate"?

If a player has his arm in an "unnatural position" but not necessarily with the deliberate intention of blocking the ball, would that be "deliberate"? I reckon some players would be crafty enough to make it look accidental.  

 

2 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

My issue with "deliberate" is that it's actually incredibly rare that the defender who gave away the pen for hand ball meant to do it, certainly to the extent that anyone else can be sure they meant it, and I suspect "did it matter" and "did it change the flight of the ball" are more relevant questions. Along with the default "you can't touch the ball with your arm/hands", but there's a little leaway with e.g. the ball kicked at the arm from short range or there's no way to have avoided the contact.

It's how do you formulate the rule the we pretty much all understand so that it works as intended, because once you've written it down, the rule is what's written, not what it's meant to be. One of the parts of the game that VAR has interferred with is the refs autonomy to leave things that are best left, might be technically the wrong call but in the context of the game are fair enough and keep things going. Lets face it, we all prefer a let the game flow ref to a fusspot ref as long as they're being fair to each side.

You’re right. Under my regime, there would be almost no penalties for hand ball, because occasions where defenders actually do it on purpose are very rare.

you could go with the ex players in the var booth, and they’d better be able to see what’s deliberate and what’s not, but I’d say it has to be clearly deliberate, like luis Suarez style deliberate, for it to be classed as deliberate.

but that is what the rule always was, ball to hand, but they never had the technology to get it right, so they mucked about with it. It’s so frustrating that they mucked about with it the very same year they brought in the technology to fix it. with a replay, you’ve got a much better chance of analysing it in slow motion and coming to a conclusion. You can see where the player is looking and what they’re aiming to do.

They’ll still get it wrong occasionally, there’s always a level of subjectivity, but handball should be rare. At the minute there are handball claims every 10 mins. And the continual debate is ‘how was he supposed to move his hand out of the way’. It’s very unfair, and now attackers are aiming for hands. It’s just handled so badly. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

 

 It’s just handled so badly. 

PEN!

[Gritstone Ram]

Same boring set up. Southgate out!

[maxjam]

Southgates thinking when deciding on his starting line up - If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

 

[strawhillram]

3 hours ago, YouRams said:

How we all feeling then? I'm going to try and be positive, Southgates a football genius and it's coming home, Rice and Kane are right we're all just mean.

Put the game on and then time for a nice 💤 

[Millenniumram]

I hear they ran out of condoms at the England camp… Southgate was devastated, far too risky to have a w*** without one