Electric Vehicles

[ram59]

So the government has delayed the enforcement of EVs by 5 years, probably as a result of the mass hysteria of the media saying that we can't be ready for it.

We seem to think that over night all cars will need charging at charging stations and that their charging capabilites will be as they are now. There will be no cliff edge, EVs will gradually take over from normal vehicles, which will continue to be in use for many years after any cut off date. Toyota have just announced that they envisage that by 2027, they will be producing vehicles with solid state batteries, these will be capable of being charged from 10 to 80% in 10 minutes and with a range of over 600 miles. That is 3 weeks motoring for the average car and that is just 4 years from now, just think how much more improvement will come before 2030.

I fully expect manufacturers to have changed to solely producing EVs long before 2030, with or without government intervention.

[BaaLocks]

31 minutes ago, ram59 said:

 

It's just amazing how chaotic our government is. They win one bi-election in Uxbridge by opposing ULEZ and now some think tank consultants seem to think that their only hope of victory in the next election is to embrace the petrol engine. It is just heartbreaking to watch 

[RoyMac5]

However they didn't change this part:

"Car firms will still be forced to meet strict quotas for selling electric cars despite the ban on sales of new petrol and diesel vehicles being delayed.

From January, just over a fifth of vehicles sold must be electric, with the target expected to hit 80% by 2030.

The government confirmed the policy would remain even though Prime Minister Rishi Sunak announced the petrol and diesel ban would be moved to 2035.

Firms that fail to hit the quotas could be fined £15,000 per car.

Industry insiders said the quotas would be a "stretch" for manufacturers to achieve, adding the delayed ban could make it harder to sell electric cars, while Auto Trader suggested firms might cut prices to boost sales and meet targets.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has defended the government's decision to push back the ban, insisting the UK will meet its net zero targets.

But there was some uncertainty whether the change to the ban would affect the quotas for electric sales, before Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch confirmed that the so-called Zero Emissions Vehicle (ZEV) mandate would remain in place.

It is expected the mandate will require car makers to ensure 22% of vehicles sold are electric next year and increase each year after that to reach 80% by 2030."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66875554

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, ram59 said:

Toyota have just announced that they envisage that by 2027, they will be producing vehicles with solid state batteries, these will be capable of being charged from 10 to 80% in 10 minutes and with a range of over 600 miles

I saw this news article - sounds like they are way ahead of Tesla in this regard

Meanwhile, as a city dwelling family who do about 2000 miles a year in our one small 3 door car, I have no issues with replacing it with an EV when the time comes, but as we live in an area of terraced houses, I've still yet to have anyone explain to me the plan for how we charge EVs. There are only a handful few houses around us with EVs and that has already led to "spaghetti pavement" scenarios with trailing wires

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I saw this news article - sounds like they are way ahead of Tesla in this regard

Meanwhile, as a city dwelling family who do about 2000 miles a year in our one small 3 door car, I have no issues with replacing it with an EV when the time comes, but as we live in an area of terraced houses, I've still yet to have anyone explain to me the plan for how we charge EVs. There are only a handful few houses around us with EVs and that has already led to "spaghetti pavement" scenarios with trailing wires

How do you fill it with petrol? Take it to a charger.

Edited September 22, 2023 by RoyMac5

[sage]

1 hour ago, BaaLocks said:

It's just amazing how chaotic our government is. They win one bi-election in Uxbridge by opposing ULEZ and now some think tank consultants seem to think that their only hope of victory in the next election is to embrace the petrol engine. It is just heartbreaking to watch 

This. 100%.

[Gaspode]

10 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I saw this news article - sounds like they are way ahead of Tesla in this regard

Meanwhile, as a city dwelling family who do about 2000 miles a year in our one small 3 door car, I have no issues with replacing it with an EV when the time comes, but as we live in an area of terraced houses, I've still yet to have anyone explain to me the plan for how we charge EVs. There are only a handful few houses around us with EVs and that has already led to "spaghetti pavement" scenarios with trailing wires

They've been trialling the use of chargers built into lamposts - but even if they added a charger to every lampost (at goodness knows what cost), it wouldn't give everyone that needs it access - so there's no obvious solution.

I'd love to know what the legal situation will be if someone iinjures themselves tripping over a charging cable that's been left across the pavement.....

[sage]

14 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I saw this news article - sounds like they are way ahead of Tesla in this regard

Meanwhile, as a city dwelling family who do about 2000 miles a year in our one small 3 door car, I have no issues with replacing it with an EV when the time comes, but as we live in an area of terraced houses, I've still yet to have anyone explain to me the plan for how we charge EVs. There are only a handful few houses around us with EVs and that has already led to "spaghetti pavement" scenarios with trailing wires

If it takes 10 minutes, the just go to the charging station, like you do the petrol station, or while you are shopping at Tesco, or working or watching Derby.

[ariotofmyown]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

If it takes 10 minutes, the just go to the charging station, like you do the petrol station, or while you are shopping at Tesco, or working or watching Derby.

Can you leave the anti-Warne bias to the main forum. We aren't so bad that people are walking out after 10 minutes. Well, not yet!

[sage]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Can you leave the anti-Warne bias to the main forum. We aren't so bad that people are walking out after 10 minutes. Well, not yet!

I take it you didn't go to the Blackpool game.

[Stive Pesley]

6 minutes ago, sage said:

If it takes 10 minutes, the just go to the charging station, like you do the petrol station, or while you are shopping at Tesco, or working or watching Derby.

Yeah good point - if battery technology advances to the point it can be charged in 10 mins then that goes some way, but even so - how big would the queues be at petrol stations if filling up with petrol took 10 minutes per car

 

8 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

I'd love to know what the legal situation will be if someone iinjures themselves tripping over a charging cable that's been left across the pavement.....

I see that Leicestershire council have banned it for that reason, you can only charge your EV on your own property

[ariotofmyown]

3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yeah good point - if battery technology advances to the point it can be charged in 10 mins then that goes some way, but even so - how big would the queues be at petrol stations if filling up with petrol took 10 minutes per car

I guess it will be much easier to construct new filling places without the issues caused by storing lots of fuel. When the economics allow for it, all cark parking spaces everwhere can have charging points. Perhaps wireless charging could happen at some point.

Hopefully we'll end up with an improved mass-transportation network too one day. Clean, cheap, automated.

[sage]

6 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yeah good point - if battery technology advances to the point it can be charged in 10 mins then that goes some way, but even so - how big would the queues be at petrol stations if filling up with petrol took 10 minutes per car

 

 

Charging stations in all public car parks. Adapt and Survive.

[Gaspode]

7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yeah good point - if battery technology advances to the point it can be charged in 10 mins then that goes some way, but even so - how big would the queues be at petrol stations if filling up with petrol took 10 minutes per car

But you don't need a dedicated 'station' as you do for petrol, so expanding the current public charging infrastructure would answer the majority of the demand

[Ram-Alf]

I'll be 79 by 2035 if still alive 😁, My Vauxhall Corsa will be 25 years old and classed as a classic and sold at Mathewson's...Bangers & Cash, So public transport or shanks pony will do for me, I couldn't afford an extension lead long enough anyway 😉 

[Ram-Alf]

20 minutes ago, sage said:

Charging stations in all public car parks. Adapt and Survive.

They were installing these last year before I retired...up and running now

https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/chellaston/RSZXEN6

[sage]

If science and investment is applied, It can be made to work.

Look at the progress in tanks from 1939 to 1945. Necessity is the mother of invention.   

[Ghost of Clough]

31 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Yeah good point - if battery technology advances to the point it can be charged in 10 mins then that goes some way, but even so - how big would the queues be at petrol stations if filling up with petrol took 10 minutes per car

 

I see that Leicestershire council have banned it for that reason, you can only charge your EV on your own property

Think about space at the typical petrol station. How many cars can fuel up at the same time, and how many are queuing up behind them?. How long does it take to wait, fuel up, pay, then drive off? 5 minutes?

Convert the entire space at the petrol station into organised parking spots, and I'm willing to bet you get at least twice as many cars charging at the same time. So, even though it takes twice as long, there are twice as many people 'fuelling up', so the queues will be no different.

But the options are just to charge up at a petrol station as per the limited options for ICE cars. Whilst I appreciate a lot of people live in terraced housing or flats, making home charging difficult, there will also be a lot of people who can charge at home. You'll have chargers at the supermarket, restaurants, work, etc..

[Stive Pesley]

Thanks for the replies, and for the avoidance of doubt, I'm only asking about the charging infrastructure as a problem I want to see solved - rather than being a grumpy old git suggesting that EVs will never work because (shakes fist)

I hate owning a car anyway - petrol or electric. I just want the cheapest option available to me, with the least hassle. Does anyone actually make an EV yet that isn't a willy-waving "big car"? Feels like car design in general has been increasing the size for a long time. When you see "big cars" from the 70s and 80s now, they look tiny in comparison to the massive cars that everyone seems to have these days (what my wife calls "fat bloke cars")

 

 

[ram59]

Before we had EVs, every single car had to go to a petrol station to refuel, when the change to EVs is complete, they will be able to refuelled at a good proportion of homes and work places, in addition to charging points at dedicated charging stations, supermarket car parks, lamp posts etc. Wireless charging will soon follow, which will make it even more convenient.

Just imagine if it was that easy to fill up with petrol or diesel.