Is Clowes Blameless?

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

Saying someone made a mistake isn't disrespectful. I'm genuinely surprised I have to say that to you.

That's not what you said though. You used the word howler.

The dictionary definition of howler is a stupid and obvious mistake.

So you basically said DC made a stupid and obvious mistake in binning off LR in favour of PW. 

If that's not disrespectful criticism then I genuinely don't know what is. 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's not what you said though. You used the word howler.

The dictionary definition of howler is a stupid and obvious mistake.

So you basically said DC made a stupid and obvious mistake in binning off LR in favour of PW. 

If that's not disrespectful criticism then I genuinely don't know what is. 

I'm fairly woke, but my this whole thread is getting really ultra wokey. 😄 Edit: maybe it comes from having seen us rescued from 'the brink' more than once before.

Edited August 17, 2023 by RoyMac5

[lrm14]

Just now, Tyler Durden said:

That's not what you said though. You used the word howler.

The dictionary definition of howler is a stupid and obvious mistake.

So you basically said DC made a stupid and obvious mistake in binning off LR in favour of PW. 

If that's not disrespectful criticism then I genuinely don't know what is. 

Yeah, I did because I think it was a very bad mistake. I'm referring to the decision not the person. If you can't seperate the two then I don't know what to say to you.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

24 minutes ago, Rich3478 said:

Yeah find Ed Dawes to be really annoying now.

Personally felt like the year before last summer was all the suffering, had no idea what was happening, if had a club etc. it was draining for all of us I think. once clowes had saved the club, it was nice to actually look forward and be optimistic again. Don’t think anyone had crazy expectations. And then watching the team, was pretty obvious we were one of the better sides in the league. 

Not saying have forgotten where we were but I think it’s definitely time to leave it in the past where we can now. Let’s focus on getting a good side and getting out of this division.

Good point. I would have been perfectly happy with midtable. But I think Rosenior’s removal raised expectations that we were expecting to challenge.

Edited August 17, 2023 by DarkFruitsRam7

[Tyler Durden]

Just now, lrm14 said:

Yeah, I did because I think it was a very bad mistake. I'm referring to the decision not the person. If you can't seperate the two then I don't know what to say to you.

Who made the stupid and obvious mistake in your words. That refers to a person.  

In the same way you advocate people being allowed to make respectful criticism you appear very uncomfortable in being challenged in your opinions by others. 

 

[Andicis]

31 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

Agreed, it seems to be the way football is going. As much stick as MM got at the time for the whole 'Derby way' phrase it was a good idea to have a philosphy permeate throughout the club, he just didn't properly act on it. Had he gone ahead and hired a DoF to recruit based on a style maybe things wouldn't have ended the way they did.

I strongly agree with this. We've lurched from one style to the next, and replaced players at a huge loss every time we've done so as they don't fit for the next manager. We need to determine our style, and stick with it. And if we replace a manager, it should be with a manager with a similar ethos. All the successful teams have taken that approach. 

[CollyerDCFC]

Perhaps the decision to sign Warne to a 4 year deal last year may become a bad decision in hindsight.

But, you can see from his point of view the rationale at the time, it made more sense to bring in some experience given the position we were in and a lengthy contract was probably required to establish that. 

Equally, this could be a blip and Warne stays though the contract and beyond...👀

I think it's important to remember too that it was never his intention to go into football ownership and his bid was at the 11th hour. His history is in property development and I expect that not all of his skills, knowledge etc. will seamlessly merge over.

[RodleyRam]

I didn't agree with the decision to remove Rosenior but I could understand the logic behind it.

I can see how PW's personality, rhetoric and track record would have been appealing. His philosophy on management, how he sells his preferred playing style and how he talks about building a culture, is all completely believable. While I don't completely buy into the brand of football and had massive reservations about the shift from LR to PW, I don't blame DC for making that call, he completely earned the right to make it! Most of what PW says added to his track record made him an entirely legitimate candidate for the stated objectives.

The issue is that he hasn't (yet) demonstrated that he can put words and track record into sustained results. It's not going well and I would say he's got 5-10 games to correct things or he loses the crowd and the players completely, it's that precarious. If you lose the crowd and the players it's only going to go one direction and the question will be whether he walks or Clowse pulls the trigger.

I hope it doesn't come to that but that's the situation as I see it.

I don't 'blame' Clowse for any of that. Sometimes decisions made for the right reasons with the right intentions don't work out. 

[Foreveram]

6 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

So did I but she was very uncomfortable with the singing which the Derby fans kept up throughout although the Norwich fans thought it was funny. She was squirming. Then in the final few minutes the Norwich fans started chanting her name. She leaped to her feet clapping them but soon sat down when the home fans joined in with the Derby song. The protest made headlines in the Sunday papers the next day and she had to chuck away her lamb and mint pies that the Derby fans had refused to buy. Following a hastily arranged board meeting that week, Norwich reduced the away prices with immediate effect and the following season the EFL introduced the rule that a club could not charge more for an away ticket than the home fans were being charged. Did you leave early that day?

I honestly don’t remember, but I do remember the chanting that went on pretty much all match.

twenty is plenty was the clean bit😂

[i-Ram]

8 hours ago, CBRammette said:

Still feel embarrassed for her! Worse thing about being at school in Norfolk was our PE kit being ncfc colours 🤮🤮

Pictures?

[AndyB]

Yes

[Highgate]

9 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Yep. The title was rushed and clumsily worded. I don’t blame him for anything, and certainly not yet. Wanted to have a discussion of the following:

1) Is it ever acceptable to respectfully criticise Clowes’ decision making?

2) If so, when does it become acceptable to respectfully criticise?

3) Are there any decisions that Clowes has made that give you some cause for concern in regard to our ability to get out of League One and push for the Premier League, which is presumably the ultimate goal?

1).  Yes absolutely, otherwise we've got some sort of cult on our hands, rather than a football club. I'm sure Clowes is a man than can handle some people disagreeing with the decisions he makes. 

2).  As soon as he took over in my opinion. You don't want the top decision maker in any club or business surrounded by an echo-chamber where ever thought they have is automatically beyond reproach. 

3).  I have my doubts about Warne, and the style of football his teams play. But I think we should all give him this season and see where we are then.

Clowes is the man that saved Derby County.  He's got that in the bag forever.  I'd expect that everyone on the forum is still grateful to him. However an owner of a football club being beyond criticism would surely be a unhealthy situation for any club to be in. I'm guessing, but I don't even think that is what Clowes would want. The fact that we might respectfully criticize a decision our owner makes, doesn't mean we are less grateful for what he has done, it just means that we still care about the direction our club is going in.  

[CBRammette]

54 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Pictures?

If bright yellow airtex nylon long sleeve tops and hideous norwich green skirts/shorts are your thing, you are weirder than we all thought 😂😂

[DarkFruitsRam7]

5 hours ago, Highgate said:

1).  Yes absolutely, otherwise we've got some sort of cult on our hands, rather than a football club. I'm sure Clowes is a man than can handle some people disagreeing with the decisions he makes. 

2).  As soon as he took over in my opinion. You don't want the top decision maker in any club or business surrounded by an echo-chamber where ever thought they have is automatically beyond reproach. 

3).  I have my doubts about Warne, and the style of football his teams play. But I think we should all give him this season and see where we are then.

Clowes is the man that saved Derby County.  He's got that in the bag forever.  I'd expect that everyone on the forum is still grateful to him. However an owner of a football club being beyond criticism would surely be a unhealthy situation for any club to be in. I'm guessing, but I don't even think that is what Clowes would want. The fact that we might respectfully criticize a decision our owner makes, doesn't mean we are less grateful for what he has done, it just means that we still care about the direction our club is going in.  

I’m pretty much with you aside from being 10% more negative on point 3.