Is Clowes Blameless?

[Rampant]

20 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Said before, will say again - as long as he doesn't do what Morris nearly did and run us irresponsibly he has my full backing, for good.

No club without him. Man's a legend.

And this too. 

[ariotofmyown]

12 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

This is a supporters message board where we all chime in and give our uninformed and emotional opinions on 22 men kicking about a bag of wind. I'm sorry if you've come here looking for the news and facts. I'm not claiming to be writing for the athletic. I just want derby to be less crap.

Thank you for accepting that your (and others) repeated assertion that "transfer targets do not want to play for him" is simply made up. I'll direct other repeating the claim to this post.

PS we all want Derby to be less crap and there is plenty of onfield issues to point out and moan about. Making off-field stuff up is not really needed, or helpful.

[Andicis]

Clowes didn't want to own Derby and stepped up to save us against his own better judgement. I'm genuinely a bit embarrassed that in just over a year some are ready to start blaming him for things. Good grief. 

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Thank you for accepting that your (and others) repeated assertion that "transfer targets do not want to play for him" is simply made up. I'll direct other repeating the claim to this post.

PS we all want Derby to be less crap and there is plenty of onfield issues to point out and moan about. Making off-field stuff up is not really needed, or helpful.

You are fighting the good fight here. That assertion has been repeated so many times on here without a single shred of evidence. 

[SouthDerbysRam]

2 hours ago, valakari said:

I dont understand how a fitness coach gets a managers job in the first place, but accepted that he did, he was good enough to get promotions with Rotherham...however, he had decided on a system which suited the players he had.

So i understand Clowes seeing 3 promotions from this Division as the right person to get us up...however, what i dont get is the timing...you surely shouldn't let your caretaker manager recruit a load of players to suit a style of playing and the replace him after a few games with a manager who plays a different system that suits a completely different type of player.

That said, when the new manager has the summer to recruit players that do fit his style and formation..he does the complete opposite....

Whoever thought this was a good idea i dont know, but as Clowes has never had anything to do with running a football club before, he surely employs experts in the club that can advise him...

Personally, i think he (Clowes), has been naive, but he saved us so he has the right to have time to put things right...

Warne i think has demonstrated that his method and style of play is awful..like Rowett and Pearson..and when you start losing playing rubbish football....the fans will turn on you....and they have!

Time to cut our losses before he destroys anything we have..and also time is running out to get some good players in...but i'd rather a football manager came in and chose them.

Time for a Lee Carsley, or a Paul Simpson...but certainly someone who plays attractive, winning football!

I disagree regarding recruiting players last summer, the players needed to be recruited last year to field a team of 18 regardless of manager or the system we were playing.

I think he is recruiting for his system but we've lost our 2 best players from last year in Knight & McGoldrick and we don't have any money to spend to replace them like for like. McGoldrick and Knight in this team, along with the signings we've made this summer, makes us instance contenders for top 2 IMO. I don't think he's happy losing both off these players but he had no choice. I think he needs to be given time/multiple windows to replace them.

Warne has a track record of getting out of League 1. I'm not sure what other expertise tops that.

I agree, the results and performances are crap at the minute but I think he needs time to sort it out and mould his team. We've got a rag tag bunch of players, which we needed to field a team of 18 last season. Most were signed on 2 year deals and will be out of contract at the end of the season. I personally think next summer will be the key transfer window, and hopefully by then, we will be any to spend some small nominal fees, within budget, on players.

If we sack Warne this season, we won't get Simpson or Carsley. We'll be dumpster diving for a Manager out of a job like Darren Moore. Clowes won't make to same mistake spending compo on a manager. But I personally hope he has a tonne more patience then Mad Mel.

I think Warne and the Club have made that classic GSE over-promise by saying we're going for promotion. I'm sure Warne wants that because he's clearly an optimist, but it's clearly created high expectations in the fan base. This team without Knight and McGoldrick never looked like a promotion capable team.

But I completely respect your opinion though, even if I disagree with most of your points. Half full vs half empty glasses and all that.

[oodledoodle]

3 minutes ago, SouthDerbysRam said:

I disagree regarding recruiting players last summer, the players needed to be recruited last year to field a team of 18 regardless of manager or the system we were playing.

I think he is recruiting for his system but we've lost our 2 best players from last year in Knight & McGoldrick and we don't have any money to spend to replace them like for like. McGoldrick and Knight in this team, along with the signings we've made this summer, makes us instance contenders for top 2 IMO. I don't think he's happy losing both off these players but he had no choice. I think he needs to be given time/multiple windows to replace them.

Warne has a track record of getting out of League 1. I'm not sure what other expertise tops that.

I agree, the results and performances are crap at the minute but I think he needs time to sort it out and mould his team. We've got a rag tag bunch of players, which we needed to field a team of 18 last season. Most were signed on 2 year deals and will be out of contract at the end of the season. I personally think next summer will be the key transfer window, and hopefully by then, we will be any to spend some small nominal fees, within budget, on players.

If we sack Warne this season, we won't get Simpson or Carsley. We'll be dumpster diving for a Manager out of a job like Darren Moore. Clowes won't make to same mistake spending compo on a manager. But I personally hope he has a tonne more patience then Mad Mel.

I think Warne and the Club have made that classic GSE over-promise by saying we're going for promotion. I'm sure Warne wants that because he's clearly an optimist, but it's clearly created high expectations in the fan base. This team without Knight and McGoldrick never looked like a promotion capable team.

But I completely respect your opinion though, even if I disagree with most of your points. Half full vs half empty glasses and all that.

How is Moore a "dumpster dive" manager when he took Wednesday up on 90 odd points?

 

@ariotofmyown adding proof of what I'm saying here so I don't upset you again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-65753318

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, oodledoodle said:

How is Moore a "dumpster dive" manager when he took Wednesday up on 90 odd points?

 

@ariotofmyown adding proof of what I'm saying here so I don't upset you again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-65753318

Because Wednesday had a squad and a budget that was comfortably the highest/second highest with Ipswich and they had the quality to finish in the top 2 and dropped off significantly in performances towards the end of the regular season. They did scrape up in the end but were not convincing at all in the playoffs. 

Well done for proving stats on a post, maybe next time include context?

[SouthDerbysRam]

4 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

How is Moore a "dumpster dive" manager when he took Wednesday up on 90 odd points?

 

@ariotofmyown adding proof of what I'm saying here so I don't upset you again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-65753318

"Dumpster Diving" as in not having to pay another club managerial compensation like we did Paul Warne.

[Curtains]

Just now, SouthDerbysRam said:

"Dumpster Diving" as in not having to pay another club managerial compensation like we did Paul Warne.

Oh we have already paid PW then 

[SouthDerbysRam]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Oh we have already paid PW then 

Clowes isn't going to pay 900k manager compensation for someone like Paul Simpson to Carlisle or for Ian Evatt to Bolton if Paul Warne doesn't work out. He'll be dumpster diving for a manager out of a job like Moore or Wilder.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, SouthDerbysRam said:

Clowes isn't going to pay 900k manager compensation for someone like Paul Simpson to Carlisle or for Ian Evatt to Bolton if Paul Warne doesn't work out. He'll be dumpster diving for a manager out of a job like Moore or Wilder.

I want Warne to work out as you do but the sight of fans leaving stands after the 2nd Oxford goal went in is a bad sign as is booing the team. 
I hope Warne can sort it out but he’s often too Frank for his own good .

I have no idea what will happen .

I was encouraged by the 2nd half at Burton and we need to see a performance now against Fleetwood .

 

 

[Rammy03]

53 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Because Wednesday had a squad and a budget that was comfortably the highest/second highest with Ipswich and they had the quality to finish in the top 2 and dropped off significantly in performances towards the end of the regular season. They did scrape up in the end but were not convincing at all in the playoffs. 

Well done for proving stats on a post, maybe next time include context?

And where's the evidence that Darren Moore plays a more attractive style of football than Paul Warne? I really don't see any reason for people wanting him here other than that he used to play for us. 

[1of4]

Didn't know which of the finger pointing, blaming of who is responsible for three bad games threads to put this. So stuck it in here.

So what do the great and good who post on here want?

For many it looks like the removal of Warne is the favourite option. 

So what would need to take place for this to happen.

Clowes sacks Warne. Have the club got the finances to pay off, him and the rest of his management team? If they haven't, I can't see our owner wanting to stump up the cash from his own pocket.

OK, so the club do find the money to pay Warne off. Who comes in as his replacement?

More importantly who is going to identify the right man for the job? Going by the comments of some, we can't leave that task to the person that brought Warne to the club. Maybe as as been suggested, we could appoint a director of football to carry this out. But who should we get as DF and again who is going to identify a suitable candidate?

So what type of manager/coach should we be getting? Another manager that favours a system with 3 centrebacks and hope he can get the players specifically signed for that formation playing better. Or should it be someone who wants to play a flat back four? One that will if there's no more budget or time to bring in new players, have to shoehorn our existing players into roles they don't usually play.

Whatever type of manager we go for, is there any guarantee they can attract a better class of player than we presently can?

Lastly if the new guy isn't working, how long should we wait before starting the whole process again?

Haven't we been on this carousel before and look how that end for us.

 

[PistoldPete]

It is often said we wouldn't have club without him. But that is speculation. Mike Ashley made an increased offer but Q had already given Kirchner his exclusivity period. Ashley bid if it  had gone through would probably have led to a 15 point deduction as I doubt he would have paid unsecured creditors 25%.  But we would still have a club. 

[Sheff Ram]

11 hours ago, Curtains said:

Clowes has made questionable decisions but he saved the club .

I’m very  conficted at the moment .

I think we have to except the situation the club is in for now. 

This is pretty much where I find myself at too.

[Sheff Ram]

10 hours ago, enachops said:

I wouldn’t have got rid of Rosenior. I think he earned the right to continue for at least the season. Having said that, I understood the reasons for bringing in Warne. 
Apart from that, he’s been brilliant. 

Again, that is pretty much my feeling too.

[Sheff Ram]

Although I think things haven't quite started as we'd been hoping for so far, I think it isn't appropriate to criticise Clownes or call for Warne to be sacked. More a case of hoping disappointment turns to a renewed sense of optimism.

With the bookies making us favourites to go up it did set a level of expectation. However, the recruitment over the summer and the loss of two or three key players has left us with a weaker squad and made most of us take the bookies outlook with a pinch of salt.

The nature of the two home league defeats have been very disappointing, but think the level of criticism being aimed at Warne is a bit OTT. If we'd beaten Oxford would we be having this level of dissatisfaction? 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Sheff Ram

[Kathcairns]

37 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

It is often said we wouldn't have club without him. But that is speculation. Mike Ashley made an increased offer but Q had already given Kirchner his exclusivity period. Ashley bid if it  had gone through would probably have led to a 15 point deduction as I doubt he would have paid unsecured creditors 25%.  But we would still have a club. 

Would you honestly have preffered ashley than clowes. If it was put to the vote dont think ashley would have won.

[ariotofmyown]

6 hours ago, oodledoodle said:

How is Moore a "dumpster dive" manager when he took Wednesday up on 90 odd points?

 

@ariotofmyown adding proof of what I'm saying here so I don't upset you again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-65753318

I really hope I never end up on trial for a crime I didn't commit and see you on the jury.

[Jayram]

3 hours ago, 1of4 said:

Didn't know which of the finger pointing, blaming of who is responsible for three bad games threads to put this. So stuck it in here.

So what do the great and good who post on here want?

For many it looks like the removal of Warne is the favourite option. 

So what would need to take place for this to happen.

Clowes sacks Warne. Have the club got the finances to pay off, him and the rest of his management team? If they haven't, I can't see our owner wanting to stump up the cash from his own pocket.

OK, so the club do find the money to pay Warne off. Who comes in as his replacement?

More importantly who is going to identify the right man for the job? Going by the comments of some, we can't leave that task to the person that brought Warne to the club. Maybe as as been suggested, we could appoint a director of football to carry this out. But who should we get as DF and again who is going to identify a suitable candidate?

So what type of manager/coach should we be getting? Another manager that favours a system with 3 centrebacks and hope he can get the players specifically signed for that formation playing better. Or should it be someone who wants to play a flat back four? One that will if there's no more budget or time to bring in new players, have to shoehorn our existing players into roles they don't usually play.

Whatever type of manager we go for, is there any guarantee they can attract a better class of player than we presently can?

Lastly if the new guy isn't working, how long should we wait before starting the whole process again?

Haven't we been on this carousel before and look how that end for us.

 

Off the top of my head, Chris Wilder, Dean Smith to name two. Obviously their wage demands might be beyond us but if not both of these would get more out of these current players than Warne, would play more attractive football and be able to attract better players. I think most of us just want to see a Derby team playing football, not this disorganised clueless garbage that seems to be the current Plan A.