Who is class, I mean a cut above ?

[jono]

At this level there are some good footballers and our lads are ours. We love them, support them but other teams have their boys too. 
Who have we got that stands out and would fit/add to in a better team ?
 

Didsy, yes cheat code No 1 

Knight, not just an engine, the way he switched feet when he scored close in was magic. 

Cash, still growing, so strong, lacks a bit of pace but has a polish that others don’t 

NML aging championship super hero, on the right day  can change a game as a laser guided battering ram.

Wildsmith .. hummm better than average and as a goalie is still developing.

The rest ? Good lads playing against other good lads from elsewhere 

 

Any thoughts comments, just an evening musing  ? 

[Rammy03]

Hourihane

[hintonsboots]

Fozzie.

[Jram]

I still think Bird has the quality and mentality to play at a high level. Towards the end of the season, he was noticeably pushing forward more and getting into positions to score/assist 

If he stays, I predict a big season from him

[jono]

5 hours ago, Jram said:

I still think Bird has the quality and mentality to play at a high level. Towards the end of the season, he was noticeably pushing forward more and getting into positions to score/assist 

If he stays, I predict a big season from him

Max confuses me. Occasional moments of real vision or a wonder goal that are a notch above and then games where he gets bullied and isn’t quite on it. 

[Anag Ram]

9 minutes ago, jono said:

Max confuses me. Occasional moments of real vision or a wonder goal that are a notch above and then games where he gets bullied and isn’t quite on it. 

For me, it’s his lack of ambition that disappoints.

By that I mean he is content to sit deep and play it simple. He has a range of passing far in excess of many others in League One and can create a lot more chances if he gets forward and takes the occasional risk.

I’d love to see him bossing games more.

I enjoy watching him at his best as he does have class.

[BaaLocks]

10 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

Hourihane

Was excellent against Burton but besides that has been invisible and without influence more often than not. And, no, it's not just a "he does so much that goes unseen", he's just been far from the 'cut above' signing that I thought we were gettig. The most disappointing signing last season (that hasn't been injured).

[Srg]

2 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

For me, it’s his lack of ambition that disappoints.

By that I mean he is content to sit deep and play it simple. He has a range of passing far in excess of many others in League One and can create a lot more chances if he gets forward and takes the occasional risk.

I’d love to see him bossing games more.

I enjoy watching him at his best as he does have class.

Seems like you're criticising his usage within formations rather than him himself. 

His best form, in my mind, was when he played with Bielik which let Bielik do the stuff which Bird is supposed to be doing in basically every other game he plays and then let Bird roam more. He seems to have been marked as a sitting midfielder, and whilst he can do it, it does restrict him. He also doesn't really cover that much ground or have the bite and athleticism you probably need to be that defensive midfielder without the ball.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Srg

[Srg]

20 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Was excellent against Burton but besides that has been invisible and without influence more often than not. And, no, it's not just a "he does so much that goes unseen", he's just been far from the 'cut above' signing that I thought we were gettig. The most disappointing signing last season (that hasn't been injured).

You forgot Collins.

[Scott129]

25 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Was excellent against Burton but besides that has been invisible and without influence more often than not. And, no, it's not just a "he does so much that goes unseen", he's just been far from the 'cut above' signing that I thought we were gettig. The most disappointing signing last season (that hasn't been injured).

I know we expected Hourihane to be the best player in League One, but he did still end up getting 7 goals and 10 assists.

I don't think you can call him our most disappointing signing after that.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Scott129

[Ambitious]

Plenty of good players at this level, who are capable of making a difference on their own - even the likes of Korey Smith can influence games at this level in a big way when he’s at his best.

In terms of players who could step up to the Championship and have that same impact: Cashin is the one I’d like expect to step up and have a similar level of success. The others - Knight needs to develop an end product to avoid just being a steady passenger on his day. Bird needs to less passive. Sibley has an edge that can win a you a game on his own back, but his consistency means he’s the first player a manager can look to change up. McGoldrick and Hourihane obviously have the technical ability of the best championship players, but would probably struggle with the intensity and step up. You would probably include NML into that one, Better class of defenders stop him being as effective, still at this level he can be a huge difference maker. 

I’d like to see how Jake Rooney develops, because he looks like a player I feel has the attributes to step up if he can put it all together. He’s just very young and raw at the moment. 

I feel we could do with a mixture of NML, McGoldrick type players who can strongly influence games at this level even if they may be cut to size in the league above and then some players like Knight, Bird who you expect to develop into high end performers at the next level. Not easy to find on a limited budget, but you do see a couple in each team at this level. Technically gifted players who are struggling to put it together - Dobbin and Harvey White are two from our own team. Players you can’t rely on to win you the league right now, but have some intangibles you can work on and a base level ability above this level. 

[BaaLocks]

46 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

I know we expected Hourihane to be the best player in League One, but he did still end up getting 7 goals and 10 assists.

I don't think you can call him our most disappointing signing after that.

I can, for the reasons you say. He was supposed to have been front and centre of it all, the quarter back controlling the whole show. Given where he had come from and what he had done at Villa I don't think that was too much of an expectation. For those reasons, against what was expected, he has been supremely disappointing.

[TuffLuff]

12 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

Hourihane

I don’t disagree but was having this debate this morning, and because it’s a slow week (prem no longer interesting, waiting for play offs, transfer window shut) I’ll offer it here too. 

If a lower level Championship team came in with £250-£400k for Hourihane would you take it?  His wage is small and it could be similar to what we perceive about McGoldrick and there could be better offer financially on the table for him. You get to use the money on a replacement that is arguably better suited to our ends.

That’s not me saying I’d get rid, I just think it’s a potentially interesting dilemma.

Edited May 25, 2023 by TuffLuff

[Srg]

22 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

I don’t disagree but was having this debate this morning, and because it’s a slow week (prem no longer interesting, waiting for play offs, transfer window shut) I’ll offer it here too. 

If a lower level Championship team came in with £250-£400k for Hourihane would you take it?  His wage is small and it could be similar to what we perceive about McGoldrick and there could be better offer financially on the table for him. You get to use the money on a replacement that is arguably better suited to our ends.

That’s not me saying I’d get rid, I just think it’s a potentially interesting dilemma.

Of course you do. That's potentially a couple of players and he's 32 with 1 year left. That'd be silly money not to take.

[TuffLuff]

3 minutes ago, Srg said:

Of course you do. That's potentially a couple of players and he's 32 with 1 year left. That'd be silly money not to take.

I’m probably over valuing at 400k! Was probably thinking more along the lines of 250k. Hard to know what a realistic valuation would be 

[Scott129]

2 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

I can, for the reasons you say. He was supposed to have been front and centre of it all, the quarter back controlling the whole show. Given where he had come from and what he had done at Villa I don't think that was too much of an expectation. For those reasons, against what was expected, he has been supremely disappointing.

Sure, disappointing, but MOST disappointing?

I'd personally reserve that for someone who has been objectively awful and has contributed very little.

[kevinhectoring]

3 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

[Hourihane was] excellent against Burton but besides that has been invisible and without influence more often than not. And, no, it's not just a "he does so much that goes unseen", he's just been far from the 'cut above' signing that I thought we were gettig. The most disappointing signing last season (that hasn't been injured).

he’s classy when he’s on it but his intensity is so so patchy. it improved end of season.  A player like that saps energy out of a team and unsettles other players. I am surprised Warne has so much faith in him - he cuts right against the approach Warne claims he wants 

[Jram]

28 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

he’s classy when he’s on it but his intensity is so so patchy. it improved end of season.  A player like that saps energy out of a team and unsettles other players. I am surprised Warne has so much faith in him - he cuts right against the approach Warne claims he wants 

Warne loves intensity but he also loves a set piece and Hourihane, for any faults, can put in a decent corner/free kick. Would be interested to see our Xg from set pieces last season compared to goals scored because Warne seemed to think we should have scored a lot more 

[Ramarena]

Dobbin

[vonwright]

Players like Bird and Hourihane had moments where they might look a cut above but neither of them were particularly consistent, or consistently dominated other teams (before he signed I thought Hourihane could do this but maybe misunderstood what he's about).

McGoldrick was the only one who was consistently better than the players around him and therefore the only one I'd describe as a cut above.

Knight is consistent in terms of effort but isn't a particularly dominant player. Maybe he can add that, maybe not.