Darren Wassall has left the club

[InstaRam]

Biggest problem is that the there must be some sort of way for clubs below the prem to guard their assets. If we are to succesful bigger clubs just say thanks and steal the real hot prospects for nothing. Thats not really great for talent production overall... 

[Charlie George]

Wonder is this fella ends up as the Academy Manager.

[IslandExile]

13 minutes ago, Charlie George said:

Wonder is this fella ends up as the Academy Manager.

Narrow it down...."an amazing opportunity elsewhere" could be anywhere away from Stoke.

[Grumpy Git]

8 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Narrow it down...."an amazing opportunity elsewhere" could be anywhere away from Stoke.

Skeg 2nd eleven?

[GenBr]

On 24/05/2023 at 12:19, NottsRam77 said:

Its true , if u compare what our accademy has produced to forests theres dicks all over ours…. And theyre not cat 1 

They are Category 1 though. Don't disagree that they are producing better players though.

For me the academy is a waste of money - not bothered what we do with it. We've produced some players who are alright in the last couple of years, but every time we produce a real gem we lose them for a handful of magic beans regardless of whether we want to keep them or not. We've just lost anyone who was any good when we faced financial oblivion, but it was the same before that and it is the same after that - if a Prem club wants someone we can't stop them taking them for a massive discount.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

13 minutes ago, GenBr said:

They are Category 1 though. Don't disagree that they are producing better players though.

For me the academy is a waste of money - not bothered what we do with it. We've produced some players who are alright in the last couple of years, but every time we produce a real gem we lose them for a handful of magic beans regardless of whether we want to keep them or not. We've just lost anyone who was any good when we faced financial oblivion, but it was the same before that and it is the same after that - if a Prem club wants someone we can't stop them taking them for a massive discount.

And what would we have done in the last 3 years whilst we’ve not been able to sign anybody. The academy has kept the club going. 
 

We get back on our feet, back in the Championship and the academy will flourish again. 
 

I believe Wassall going is the best thing. He’s been there 14 years and a fresh pair of eyes will be great. 

[Gerry Daly]

I totally agree. Not sure the answer is someone who has spent 14 years at Stoke though - if it turns out to be him. I'm struggling to think of any players Stoke have brought through in recent years

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

I'd love to know people's thoughts on this.

A player joins Derby when he's in U6/7s. Now in U14's and in that 7/8 years, not once Darren Wassall has spoken to the player or parent. 

Baring in mind that U14s is the year the boys can get scholarships, do you think some communication from the academy director should have been had by that time? 

[Ghost of Clough]

31 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said:

I totally agree. Not sure the answer is someone who has spent 14 years at Stoke though - if it turns out to be him. I'm struggling to think of any players Stoke have brought through in recent years

Nathan Collins is an obvious one. Joined Burnley in 2021 for £13m then Wolves last summer for £22m. Tyrese Campbell, Josef Bursik and Connor Taylor are first team squad members, whilst Tom Edwards was in and out of their team over the past few seasons.

Ben Brereton was at Stoke from 14 to 16.

[Rev]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Ben Brereton was at Stoke from 14 to 16.

Happiest Diaz of his life, they were.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

I'd love to know people's thoughts on this.

A player joins Derby when he's in U6/7s. Now in U14's and in that 7/8 years, not once Darren Wassall has spoken to the player or parent. 

Baring in mind that U14s is the year the boys can get scholarships, do you think some communication from the academy director should have been had by that time? 

This is not unusual. That’s part of the problem. 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

17 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said:

This is not unusual. That’s part of the problem. 

That's either lazy or just not interested. Whichever it is, that's not good enough. 

[GenBr]

3 hours ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

And what would we have done in the last 3 years whilst we’ve not been able to sign anybody. The academy has kept the club going. 
 

We get back on our feet, back in the Championship and the academy will flourish again. 
 

I believe Wassall going is the best thing. He’s been there 14 years and a fresh pair of eyes will be great. 

You dont need to spend millions every year to have a few average players ready on the off chance that we might be in financial trouble again at some point in the future. 

I don't really think it was ever flourishing - not during Mels tenure anyway. You are welcome to your opinion, but I can't see any way in which the academy benefits us at the moment, especially at league one level. For me the huge investment can be better spent elsewhere. Maybe if we actually sold some youth players for significant fees occasionally I could see a benefit, but we never do and even in the Championship we wont be able to stop anyone good leaving for nothing. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, GenBr said:

You dont need to spend millions every year to have a few average players ready on the off chance that we might be in financial trouble again at some point in the future. 

I don't really think it was ever flourishing - not during Mels tenure anyway. You are welcome to your opinion, but I can't see any way in which the academy benefits us at the moment, especially at league one level. For me the huge investment can be better spent elsewhere. Maybe if we actually sold some youth players for significant fees occasionally I could see a benefit, but we never do and even in the Championship we wont be able to stop anyone good leaving for nothing. 

What amount do you consider huge? It seems to at least break even, it's part of our community 'engagement' too.

[IlsonDerby]

18 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

What amount do you consider huge? It seems to at least break even, it's part of our community 'engagement' too.

I’d agree with this. 
How much would it have cost us to sign players like Bogle, Lowe, Cashin, Festy, Bird, Knight, Sibley etc? We’d sure as hell have to have bought players in to cover their minutes from the last few seasons. What costs have been saved? 
 

Then we can look at transfer fees which probably isn’t as good as we’d hoped but I think money saved for decent quality championship players, during a time people were still spaffing £11m on a crocked midfielder more than makes up for that. 

[NottsRam77]

On 26/05/2023 at 08:43, GenBr said:

They are Category 1 though. Don't disagree that they are producing better players though.

For me the academy is a waste of money - not bothered what we do with it. We've produced some players who are alright in the last couple of years, but every time we produce a real gem we lose them for a handful of magic beans regardless of whether we want to keep them or not. We've just lost anyone who was any good when we faced financial oblivion, but it was the same before that and it is the same after that - if a Prem club wants someone we can't stop them taking them for a massive discount.

This is the thing, compare what forest have recouped from their accademy and what we have and its been like night and day.

and lets be honest until recently theyve had as much instability and managerial changes as we have 

[europia]

On 27/05/2023 at 13:18, NottsRam77 said:

This is the thing, compare what forest have recouped from their accademy and what we have and its been like night and day.

and lets be honest until recently theyve had as much instability and managerial changes as we have 

They made it into the PL and will have at least another season there. So purely on financial grounds they have been successful. Not sure how much of that is down to their academy, but it will have had some impact. 

[maydrakin]

The issue is that we spend an exorbitant amount of money to develop players and end up with bigger clubs coming in an cherry picking anyone with a lot of potential.

We could just as easily let the bigger teams develop these players and then pick up the ones who just don’t make it, like Haydon Roberts, who can step into our first team squad immediately.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, maydrakin said:

The issue is that we spend an exorbitant amount of money to develop players and end up with bigger clubs coming in an cherry picking anyone with a lot of potential.

We could just as easily let the bigger teams develop these players and then pick up the ones who just don’t make it, like Haydon Roberts, who can step into our first team squad immediately.

Do we? I thought @Ghost of Clough had posted figures showing differently? That we are at least breaking even. 

If it hadn't been for Mel's 'poor book-keeping' and the EFL then in the last few years we might have done even better with the Academy. At the minute Roberts looks like a League 1 player, not say like a Bielik (without injuries!) an international player looking very comfortable in the Championship after a stint in League 1.

Edited May 31, 2023 by RoyMac5

[NottsRam77]

On 30/05/2023 at 22:08, europia said:

They made it into the PL and will have at least another season there. So purely on financial grounds they have been successful. Not sure how much of that is down to their academy, but it will have had some impact. 

Its got them through some tough times. Both on the pitch from a footballing point of view and finacnially off it