Poynton ram Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 When the business plan was submitted to the EFL I doubt it included a crowd of 30k vs Bolton. No idea how much extra revenue yesterday generated vs what was included in the plan but across the season I suspect attendances are up on the plan and with extra cup games and prize money the club must be trading close to break even. Does that give Warne any flexibility to wheel and deal or is the business plan rigid for the next 2 seasons and in reality performing better than plan is irrelevant save for reducing any need for further DC investment? ariotofmyown and David Graham Brown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 You’re asking questions no one can answer. We only know that it’s frees and loans without fees, plus a wage cap for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Daly Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Poynton ram said: When the business plan was submitted to the EFL I doubt it included a crowd of 30k vs Bolton. No idea how much extra revenue yesterday generated vs what was included in the plan but across the season I suspect attendances are up on the plan and with extra cup games and prize money the club must be trading close to break even. Does that give Warne any flexibility to wheel and deal or is the business plan rigid for the next 2 seasons and in reality performing better than plan is irrelevant save for reducing any need for further DC investment? Your post implies that the EFL agreed a business plan with us to trade at a loss coming out of administration. What rubbish, there is no earthly chance they would agree such a thing. Can you imagine for one second why they would? The aim of the exercise would be to ensure we didn't get into such an unholy mess by living beyond our means again right? And also not to be able to bounce straight back by spending more than we have? I'm saying to you that the business plan would have been predicated on considerably lower income and for the club to break even at worst but probably to maintain a modest surplus. So we must surely have a healthy surplus but we aren't allowed to spend it Jram, We'll be back in 81 and RadioactiveWaste 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) Word on the street is that The EFL *MIGHT* consider reviewing the terms of the business plan in the close season. But even if they do decide to review it, any amendments/relaxations may well depend on what mood certain people are on the day. It's still a possibility that one of us may not only have to sleep with Rick Parry, but also serve up a bostin' breakfast too, if we are to see any leniency! Edited January 22, 2023 by Mucker1884 and/any... whatever! David Graham Brown and RadioactiveWaste 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: Word on the street is that The EFL *MIGHT* consider reviewing the terms of the business plan in the close season. But even if they do decide to review it, and amendments/relaxations may well depend on what mood certain people are on the day. It's still a possibility that one of us may not only have to sleep with Rick Parry, but also serve up a bostin' breakfast too, if we are to see any leniency! Mods, a poll is clearly needed to decide who is going to take on the delicate task of seducing rick party to the extent he is so besotted he will grant DCFC anything. My vote is for @Curtains David Graham Brown and Mucker1884 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydraulic ram Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 23 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: Word on the street is that The EFL *MIGHT* consider reviewing the terms of the business plan in the close season. But even if they do decide to review it, any amendments/relaxations may well depend on what mood certain people are on the day. It's still a possibility that one of us may not only have to sleep with Rick Parry, but also serve up a bostin' breakfast too, if we are to see any leniency! Mucker1884 and David Graham Brown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I think, not 100% sure it was mentioned that the agreed business plan could be reviewed and possibly adjusted after the 1st year. I think part of it was based on Derby having approx 17,000 season ticket holders. I don't know how many season ticket holders we currently have and that's also counting the top up of some fans doing the half a season purchase. Also we have been shown on TV a few times, that's addition revenue. Prize monies in the FA cup also adds to the pot. So with our home fixtures in the league currently averaging 27,000 that is more income for the club. Oh, and before anyone asks, I'm not volunteering to sleep with Rick Parry. RadioactiveWaste, Jram, Hans Datdo-Dishes and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram59 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Common sense says that the business plan should be reviewed after one year because of a possible change to Derby's circumstances. Derby's income was estimated for the current season, next season's income would be affected by either promotion or relegation and also the level of support for this season would need to be taken into consideration. As it happens Derby are not going to be relegated and the crowds are not going to be lower than those estimated for the current business plan, so a negative adjustment will not be required. The trouble is that common sense and the EFL are rarely in the same room as each other. David Graham Brown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 From latest Supporters Charter Group minutes: How many season tickets have we sold? The total number of season tickets has exceeded 20,000. Additionally, there’s an increase of 51% on half-season ticket sales compared to the same period last year. And Is there any movement in our business plan due to us overachieving? The business plan remains unchanged, yet the overall outlook is positive. The club is in regular communication with the English Football League (EFL) but it was emphasised that this will not have any impact on the team’s ability to recruit in January, as we have a wage cap in place. Did you not read these when they were posted by David a few days' ago? Carl Sagan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, angieram said: From latest Supporters Charter Group minutes: How many season tickets have we sold? The total number of season tickets has exceeded 20,000. Additionally, there’s an increase of 51% on half-season ticket sales compared to the same period last year. And Is there any movement in our business plan due to us overachieving? The business plan remains unchanged, yet the overall outlook is positive. The club is in regular communication with the English Football League (EFL) but it was emphasised that this will not have any impact on the team’s ability to recruit in January, as we have a wage cap in place. Did you not read these when they were posted by David a few days' ago? I did but those notes didn’t say if we were up to our limit. I am pleased we are doing better than expected or budgeted for. What David Clowes has done deserves some good results. David Graham Brown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Gerry Daly said: Your post implies that the EFL agreed a business plan with us to trade at a loss coming out of administration. What rubbish, there is no earthly chance they would agree such a thing. Can you imagine for one second why they would? The aim of the exercise would be to ensure we didn't get into such an unholy mess by living beyond our means again right? And also not to be able to bounce straight back by spending more than we have? I'm saying to you that the business plan would have been predicated on considerably lower income and for the club to break even at worst but probably to maintain a modest surplus. So we must surely have a healthy surplus but we aren't allowed to spend it It certainly isn't rubbish. We will make a loss this season, unless we sell player(s) for multi-millions. I went in to quite a bit of detail on previous threads showing why this will be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Daly Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Your 'detail' is based on supposition. You don't know what the facts are. There is no way that the EFL would agree to a business plan that is predicated on making a loss following administration. It just doesn't make sense. Have you watched Judge Judy? She says over and over again 'if it doesn't make sense it probably isn't true' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Gerry Daly said: Your 'detail' is based on supposition. You don't know what the facts are. There is no way that the EFL would agree to a business plan that is predicated on making a loss following administration. It just doesn't make sense. Have you watched Judge Judy? She says over and over again 'if it doesn't make sense it probably isn't true' It does make sense tho Judy. The business plan is intended to ensure we don’t go bust again; and to ensure we don’t unfairly benefit from the creditor write off On the first point: if DC commits to cover the modest losses, then we don’t go bust. The second point should not prevent us from benefitting from the fact we have more support than any other team in the division, so you’d expect our squad to be relatively strong (which it is). It remains to be seen whether it holds up injury-wise, through an entire season, so let’s hope we can strengthen The timing of agreeing the business plan might also lead you to expect a degree of leniency from EFL DC was the only show in town except for Ashley who would likely have caused endless trouble for us and for the EFL. No wonder EFl found a deal that worked for DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadAmster Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 15 hours ago, Srg said: You’re asking questions no one can answer. We only know that it’s frees and loans without fees, plus a wage cap for this season. ... and next season as well. If we have kept well inside the parameters set in the business plan DC put together and the EFL accepted, there is an outside chance we might get a slight easing on a couple of the current sanctions but no more than that. Maybe (especially should we go up) an increase on the total spend allowed which is currently £8M and possible be allowed to use the extra for transfer/loan fees. Our income in the Championship has been somewhere between £20M and £30M down the years (Covid years excepted) so an increase to maybe £12M wouldn't be excessive. IMO. However, it's the EFL that will decide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 13 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: It certainly isn't rubbish. We will make a loss this season, unless we sell player(s) for multi-millions. I went in to quite a bit of detail on previous threads showing why this will be the case. We need to sell Belick but that’s getting harder by the week - playing for Birmingham is no selling point unless your 16 and not been broken a couple of times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 My understanding is the business plan us as much about restricting Derby’s ability to compete to ensure fairness to the rest of the league than it is about us proving we’re financially stable. The EFL always bang on about integrity of the competition and if they allowed Derby under a new owner to splash the cash when we’d avoided paying 75% of our non-football debts, other clubs would kick off and it would lead to a precedent of more clubs doing the same thing to dodge paying debts. -12 points and a dubious -9 for FFP isn’t enough they want to hamper Derby’s ability to compete for 2 years as well. If we do end up at Wembley and we’re on the verge of winning we do need a rousing chorus of f*** the EFL!! Reggie Greenwood, Carl Sagan, David Graham Brown and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBX1985 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 6 hours ago, MadAmster said: ... and next season as well. If we have kept well inside the parameters set in the business plan DC put together and the EFL accepted, there is an outside chance we might get a slight easing on a couple of the current sanctions but no more than that. Maybe (especially should we go up) an increase on the total spend allowed which is currently £8M and possible be allowed to use the extra for transfer/loan fees. Our income in the Championship has been somewhere between £20M and £30M down the years (Covid years excepted) so an increase to maybe £12M wouldn't be excessive. IMO. However, it's the EFL that will decide... I would suspect the rule is you cannot post a loss on trading income. We would have a bump in allowance (higher ticket price leading to more income - even, maybe, on fewer sales etc etc\0. In championship, there would be a reasonable expectation of TV monies of x. There would be a reasonable expectation of season ticket sales of x. They probably use a conservative figure for all of these. Add these core income types up and that is your agreed budget. Player buys and sells should really be self funding, as you would hope normally to be able to sell a few people to bring others in (rarely works that way, but we are only allowed to operate in the second category). They will not let us in on the system before our time is served, as that was the cause of the problem in first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeTownRams Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 ..and I what circumstances? Can’t recall what was stipulated…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Appently in summer 2024 some time unless restrictions early of cause in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 On 23/01/2023 at 11:14, MadAmster said: ... and next season as well. If we have kept well inside the parameters set in the business plan DC put together and the EFL accepted, there is an outside chance we might get a slight easing on a couple of the current sanctions but no more than that. Maybe (especially should we go up) an increase on the total spend allowed which is currently £8M and possible be allowed to use the extra for transfer/loan fees. Our income in the Championship has been somewhere between £20M and £30M down the years (Covid years excepted) so an increase to maybe £12M wouldn't be excessive. IMO. However, it's the EFL that will decide... We should be allowed most to be lifted but flaming efl wont do anything to help derby even through we are under new ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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