Warne isn't the Messiah and Stearman is a very Naughty Boy

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Warne out. He’s been here long enough now to recruit the players he wants and coach the existing players to perform as he want them to.

(Caution. Sarcasm alert).

Damn! I got soooo angry.

Couldn't you have put the 'caution' first?! ?

[FlyBritishMidland]

It’s been a tricky couple of weeks for PW.  In his first week he’s had all the media nonsense to deal with following his appointment.  It was also an international week and 2/3 of his current midfield were away on duty.  Others, such as Smith and Rooney were injured.  Last week it was a case of 3 games in the week.  This really gives little time to work on shape, etc.

He now has a full week before the next game.  In no way am I saying he’ll have it cracked but with pretty much a full squad it does give him time to work on the shape and tactics.

He himself has said we lacked composure in the midfield yesterday.  Over time, he‘ll get them functioning how he wants and I don’t think it will be as long ball as people think.  More direct and get the ball forward quicker than under LR, yes, but that doesn’t mean long ball.

Edited October 9, 2022 by FlyBritishMidland

[Mrso]

4 hours ago, MACKWORTHRAM said:

This was always going to be like this. These aren't Warnes players and he's working with what he's got.

He'll be learning about them all the time. Full week on the training ground now to work on what we'll do without Collins.

Midfield will always be a problem. Bird and Hourihane are too similar and I don't know if they can play together. I'd be interested to see how Smith does when he gets a run.

I've said from the start we may get top 6 but our squad depth is non existent. Yesterday we were missing Smith and Davies. That's it. Yet you're looking at the bench for a player to come on and change it and there isn't anything.

On another day Mendez Laing scores that, Dobbins got to score and you go in 3 up. 

Warne will want to get to January in and around the top 6 and then hopefully bring 4/5 of his own in.

In my opinion we need 2 full backs, another midfielder, another winger and another striker. Warne likes to play 2 up top and we can't rely on Mcgoldrick.

Our only wingers are NML and Barkhuizen. An injury to one of them and we're even shorter.

One final thing. Does anyone know if Collins 3 matches include the Papa John's game? Or is it 3 league games?

But if PW has to wait 'til January to sort it out, what was the point of bringing him in?  LR would likely have us playing to his pattern and being well set for the Play-offs by January.  I thought PW was brought in to hurry the promotion challenge, not slow it down.  In the fantasy world of us being in the Championship next year it's hard to see compelling reasons to want PW to push us higher given his record, and style of play.

Re last questions - The EFL Trophy is a standalone competition for disciplinary purposes.  Suspensions do include the League Cup and FA Cup (though that's not relevant in this case).

[Curtains]

6 minutes ago, Mrso said:

But if PW has to wait 'til January to sort it out, what was the point of bringing him in?  LR would likely have us playing to his pattern and being well set for the Play-offs by January.  I thought PW was brought in to hurry the promotion challenge, not slow it down.  In the fantasy world of us being in the Championship next year it's hard to see compelling reasons to want PW to push us higher given his record, and style of play.

Re last questions - The EFL Trophy is a standalone competition for disciplinary purposes.  Suspensions do include the League Cup and FA Cup (though that's not relevant in this case).

So is it David Clowes fault ! 
Should he have stuck with Rosenior ! 

Is the team assembled good enough !

I say give Warne time before writing him off .

I am just happy we have a Football team to watch week in week out .

Perspective please  

 

[Archie]

17 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So is it David Clowes fault ! 
Should he have stuck with Rosenior ! 

Is the team assembled good enough !

I say give Warne time before writing him off .

I am just happy we have a Football team to watch week in week out .

Perspective please  

 

Like you, I'm really pleased we have a football team to support. The uncertainty has been horrible for the last 15 months. Glad we're still in the game.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes I think he should have stuck with LR. There was so much goodwill around he really couldn't lose (I don't know the financial ins and outs). Signing PW and his team on a 4 year deal in our current situation was reckless imo. We didn't need to do it. Ratchets up the pressure on everyone at the club. 

2. The team was assembled for LR's approach and good enough to compete in the league but not for PW. 

3. Agree. But equally wish Clowes had given LR more time as well. Works both ways.

People are saying give PW more time and rightly so but I'm not sure what more time will show other than being better at the same approach. I don't think I can stomach it. I just don't think this is how football should be played. Once again, just my opinion. Good managers should be able to pick a style depending on the squad of players they have to work with. From what we have seen so far, I don't think PW has the ability nor desire to do this. 

I'm not being alarmist but really hope Cowles hasn't made a massive blunder here. 

[IslandExile]

So lots of folks saying we need two 'proper' wing backs in order to play Warne's system.

Where does that leave Mendez-Lang (our best player to date) and Barks (one of the better ones)? Vying for a slot in the front two? The midfield 3?

[bcnram]

5 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

Warne out. He’s been here long enough now to recruit the players he wants and coach the existing players to perform as he want them to.

 

(Caution. Sarcasm alert).

The football is horrible, the players are confused. Surely no one can be happy with what the players are being asked to do. 
I suspect come January we will end up with a team of 6 ft + players feeding off percentages. 

[Curtains]

31 minutes ago, Archie said:

Like you, I'm really pleased we have a football team to support. The uncertainty has been horrible for the last 15 months. Glad we're still in the game.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes I think he should have stuck with LR. There was so much goodwill around he really couldn't lose (I don't know the financial ins and outs). Signing PW and his team on a 4 year deal in our current situation was reckless imo. We didn't need to do it. Ratchets up the pressure on everyone at the club. 

2. The team was assembled for LR's approach and good enough to compete in the league but not for PW. 

3. Agree. But equally wish Clowes had given LR more time as well. Works both ways.

People are saying give PW more time and rightly so but I'm not sure what more time will show other than being better at the same approach. I don't think I can stomach it. I just don't think this is how football should be played. Once again, just my opinion. Good managers should be able to pick a style depending on the squad of players they have to work with. From what we have seen so far, I don't think PW has the ability nor desire to do this. 

I'm not being alarmist but really hope Cowles hasn't made a massive blunder here. 

Isn’t it a bit unfair to think Warne can’t adapt to these players and work out a system to suit .

Its been 2 League games and we got our first away win last week .

Yesterday wasn’t really a true reflection of what could happen in the future .

I for one am backing Warne to be successful 

 

[Archie]

11 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Isn’t it a bit unfair to think Warne can’t adapt to these players and work out a system to suit .

Its been 2 League games and we got our first away win last week .

Yesterday wasn’t really a true reflection of what could happen in the future .

I for one am backing Warne to be successful 

 

Me too. He has my complete backing. 

I think the style from LR's reign needed a 'tweak' to get the best out of the team we have and to be that bit more successful. We were in 7th. 

I don't see the implementation of a 'tweak' thus far, I see a totally different direction, vision and a complete overhaul. As a result, I'm not sure he can adapt to work out a system for the players he has. He doesn't seem one for subtleties.

Hope I'm wrong. It's been known before.

COYR 

[Srg]

4 hours ago, Curtains said:

What do you think to Roberts being used more central for his pace. .

Thought that was a good call by PW 

I think him or Rooney should’ve started instead of Stearman. We weren’t winning headers, so Stearman served no purpose. You may as well utilise the better qualities either of the other two have for a back 3. 

[Tamworthram]

57 minutes ago, bcnram said:

The football is horrible, the players are confused. Surely no one can be happy with what the players are being asked to do. 
I suspect come January we will end up with a team of 6 ft + players feeding off percentages. 

So you expect the players to know exactly what Warne want and for Warne to know exactly how he can make best use of the players at his disposal after less than two weeks? 

I reckon the players have got to learn, and get used to adapting to how he wants to play, and he is going to have to adapt his style a little to fit the skills of his players. Neither of those things are going to happen overnight.

Regarding the height of players, both Rotherham and Derby already seem to have about 10 players over 6 feet tall so it doesn't look as if having a team of giants is necessarily Warne's style.

[bcnram]

5 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

For Derby's goal Mendez-Laing passed the ball on the ground to Barkhuizen who then strode up the wing and passed the ball on the ground across the penalty area to Collins for him to score.

Note the use of the key words in that paragraph. 

Was that not good enough for you?

It was a joy to watch that move, that is what I want to see, passing the ball to each other, it really does work as you have explained.

I honestly don’t care at this stage that we lost, it does happen. My gripe is the way that much of our game plan involves lumping the ball, the players are more capable than that and I don’t believe they can be happy with it  

I am not calling for Warne to be fired, that would be ridiculous after three games, he just needs to realise that the game is far more entertaining when played on grass. 
 

[bcnram]

8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

So you expect the players to know exactly what Warne want and for Warne to know exactly how he can make best use of the players at his disposal after less than two weeks? 

I reckon the players have got to learn, and get used to adapting to how he wants to play, and he is going to have to adapt his style a little to fit the skills of his players. Neither of those things are going to happen overnight.

Regarding the height of players, both Rotherham and Derby already seem to have about 10 players over 6 feet tall so it doesn't look as if having a team of giants is necessarily Warne's style.

To be fair, I think that trying overnight to turn what is the essentially a passing team with players largely brought up on passing the ball, into this direct lump ball  style is a bit daft. It probably demonstrates his limitations. 
 

My 6ft+ reference was more about lower division style footballers than just their height. ?

[europia]

On 08/10/2022 at 20:07, sage said:

there is no guarantee that Warne will do any better than Rosenoir.

Well I bloomin well hope he does.... the ink's barely dry on a 4 yr contract for Warne and his coaching staff !!

[Duracell]

4 hours ago, Archie said:

Like you, I'm really pleased we have a football team to support. The uncertainty has been horrible for the last 15 months. Glad we're still in the game.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes I think he should have stuck with LR. There was so much goodwill around he really couldn't lose (I don't know the financial ins and outs). Signing PW and his team on a 4 year deal in our current situation was reckless imo. We didn't need to do it. Ratchets up the pressure on everyone at the club. 

2. The team was assembled for LR's approach and good enough to compete in the league but not for PW. 

3. Agree. But equally wish Clowes had given LR more time as well. Works both ways.

People are saying give PW more time and rightly so but I'm not sure what more time will show other than being better at the same approach. I don't think I can stomach it. I just don't think this is how football should be played. Once again, just my opinion. Good managers should be able to pick a style depending on the squad of players they have to work with. From what we have seen so far, I don't think PW has the ability nor desire to do this. 

I'm not being alarmist but really hope Cowles hasn't made a massive blunder here. 

This is exactly how I feel.

Decent bloke, good manager in fact, but a totally perplexing appointment. 

If this is how Warne wants to play, it means the players we signed in the summer were the wrong players and the academy is preparing youngsters for a style of play that doesn’t exist in the first team.

So we’ll have to start from scratch. Again.

 

[IslandExile]

29 minutes ago, Duracell said:

This is exactly how I feel.

Decent bloke, good manager in fact, but a totally perplexing appointment. 

If this is how Warne wants to play, it means the players we signed in the summer were the wrong players and the academy is preparing youngsters for a style of play that doesn’t exist in the first team.

So we’ll have to start from scratch. Again.

 

It's the Derby way. Just ask Mel.

[scout's dad]

People can we all take a breather. We loose a match at home and then start thinking DC has made a massive mistake.

LR is a top bloke but remember he couldn’t get us an away win for love nor money. PW does that in his first match! 

I was there on Saturday. Yes it wasn’t pretty at times but we were unlucky due to very ?y officiating and the PV dark arts.

In PW I trust and he has previous in this situation.

UT?

 

[Loughborough Ram]

Can't belive that there is a single questioning voice about Paul Warnes appointment now that he is here. I'm stunned by how impatient football supporters are these days, and I despair where this attitude is driving the game.

This is clearly intended to be a long term appointment so the suitability of the current playing squad, who are all on short term deals, is largely irrelevant. 

He has only had 3 games so it's impossible to say whether we are better, worse or pretty much the same but I reckon that trying to draw conclusions, and questioning his suitability based on these conclusions can only have a negative impact.

Come on, let's be supporters and SUPPORT. Look what we almost achieved last season by blindly supporting our team regardless of results or circumstances.

[IslandExile]

21 minutes ago, Loughborough Ram said:

This is clearly intended to be a long term appointment so the suitability of the current playing squad, who are all on short term deals, is largely irrelevant. 

That's the point though.... If folks are saying this squad isn't capable of playing the way that Warne wants then:

1. Since these players are adept at "passing football", it infers that Warne won't change from his long ball, direct style. I for one am not enthusiastic about that. (So much for LR not being flexible).

2. We are still doing Mel's trick of successive management appointments bringing in different styles of play, each requiring a different squad of players. That's costly remember.

Edited October 9, 2022 by IslandExile

[Loughborough Ram]

There will only be a very small number of our current squad that won't be, either willing or able, to adapt to playing the way that Paul Warne wants them to. The rest will adapt and will embrace that change but need time to do it.

Rather than perpetuating the trend this will actually change the trend. To bring in another manager, or retain LR to play a brand of football that suits the squad, but hasn't yet brought any success, would be as big a risk as bringing in a new manager with different ideas. 

Paul Warne deserves the chance to implement his ideas and to even suggest that 3 games is the time to make any judgements, is complete idiocy in my opinion.