Bielik at Brum

[jimtastic56]

8 hours ago, roboto said:

My understanding is that the deal we made when we bought him was in the region of £8-£10m based on an agreed set fee (lower end) plus extras for any achievements written into the deal (usually promotion, appearance targets etc.).

I doubt we've hit any of the performance targets to trigger the added value and from what the club has said during the admin process, we have been paying off the main fee in regular instalments. One of the payments was deferred by Arsenal when we went into admin. However, since we are now out of admin and Arsenal would be considered a football creditor, we still need to complete agreed payments.

If we are to believe that the fee agreed was £8m and we are now entering the last of his 5 contracted years we can assume that we've been paying £1.6m per year (or £800k every 6 months, or £400k per quarter - depending on how the agreement was arranged). therefore we likely only owe the last £1.6m of the reported fee and that is a fee I think we can expect to get for him. It would be nice to get somewhere between £2-3m, but we need to be realistic.

Would not suprise me , the way Mel worked, that Beilik is due some kind of loyalty bonus for seeing out his contract.

[i-Ram]

8 hours ago, Raich Carter said:

Are we sure we owe anything to Arsenal? I thought paid off/settled as part of the Administration process. Can't see why Clowes would take that debt on when Arsenal, along with all the other creditors, were made an offer of Xp in the £.

Football creditors have to be paid at 100% to retain EFL membership. There was no advantage to Clowes paying Arsenal off early, when 4 year payment terms were in existence. We still owe instalment(s) due under the contract. I don’t know the figure, but many seem to state it to be £1.5m outstanding in total. I can’t see any club coming up with that personally over the summer, but I would be happy to be surprised. Very poor value for money. Anyaesque.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Football creditors have to be paid at 100% to retain EFL membership. There was no advantage to Clowes paying Arsenal off early, when 4 year payment terms were in existence. We still owe instalment(s) due under the contract. I don’t know the figure, but many seem to state it to be £1.5m outstanding in total.

Yep, that's the nuts and bolts of it but sadly I fear the figures may be rather different to the £1.5M bandied about by a few. Looking at the DCFC Creditor Listing at time of admin, the club owed £8.37m in outstanding player registration fees and £504,000 in agents' commission. Most, if not all of that figure relates to solely to the Kamil Jóźwiak and Bielik fees.

We were told at the time that the surprisingly generous £2.5M paid by MLS outfit Charlotte FC more or less cleared the Jóźwiak debt to Lech Poznan, so we can safely assume that at that point, we still owed Arsenal not far off £6M for Bielik - bear in mind that Arsenal kindly deferred an instalment which is why the figure was higher than we'd all hoped at the time.

Hard to know how much of that figure has been cleared down since July 2022, but my guess would be £2M at best, based on the likely instalments - approximately £2m per annum over 4 years. That leaves us with around £4M still to pay. Obviously if Clowes decided to cover the deferred payment when he took control, that number would half but I think the £1.5M some have quoted is probably highly optimistic.

Depressing and for my money, the worst call of Mad Mel's tenure, though I concede that I was pretty excited when we signed him as pre-injury, the lad looked an absolute beast. When we signed Bradders and that midfielder who was so f****** bland that I've forgotten his name for around £11 million combined, I thought we'd taken leave of our senses, but £8M plus add-ons (none of which will be paid, thankfully) for Bielik trumps it by some way.

By my count, Bielik has played @48 league games for Derby. He's only 13 games short of that figure for Birmingham. Grim AF and my guess is that his likely fee should he stay at Brum would be little more than a miserly £1 million, leaving the club with somewhere between £1M and £3M still to pay, with the latter figure most likely IMO.

Had he honoured his contract, there's little doubt in my mind we'd already be back in the Championship, but I'm heartened by the fact that he got to fulfil his ambition to play in a World Cup, because that's what really matters 🤐

Edited June 3, 2023 by 86 Hair Islands

[Oldben]

4 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Yep, that's the nuts and bolts of it but sadly I fear the figures may be rather different to the £1.5M bandied about by a few. Looking at the DCFC Creditor Listing at time of admin, the club owed £8.37m in outstanding player registration fees and £504,000 in agents' commission. Most, if not all of that figure relates to solely to the Kamil Jóźwiak and Bielik fees.

We were told at the time that the surprisingly generous £2.5M paid by MLS outfit Charlotte FC more or less cleared the Jóźwiak debt to Lech Poznan, so we can safely assume that at that point, we still owed Arsenal not far off £6M for Bielik - bear in mind that Arsenal kindly deferred an instalment which is why the figure was higher than we'd all hoped at the time.

Hard to know how much of that figure has been cleared down since July 2022, but my guess would be £2M at best, based on the likely instalments - approximately £2m per annum over 4 years. That leaves us with around £4M still to pay. Obviously if Clowes decided to cover the deferred payment when he took control, that number would half but I think the £1.5M some have quoted is probably highly optimistic.

Depressing and for my money, the worst call of Mad Mel's tenure, though I concede that I was pretty excited when we signed him as pre-injury, the lad looked an absolute beast. When we signed Bradders and that midfielder who was so f****** bland that I've forgotten his name for around £11 million combined, I thought we'd taken leave of our senses, but £8M plus add-ons (none of which will be paid, thankfully) for Bielik trumps it by some way.

By my count, Bielik has played @48 league games for Derby. He's only 13 games short of that figure for Birmingham. Grim AF and my guess is that his likely fee should he stay at Brum would be little more than a miserly £1 million, leaving the club with somewhere between £1M and £3M still to pay, with the latter figure most likely IMO.

Had he honoured his contract, there's little doubt in my mind we'd already be back in the Championship, but I'm heartened by the fact that he got to fulfil his ambition to play in a World Cup, because that's what really matters 🤐

Take into consideration that if we don't sell him, a year from now he's a free agent.

We will not recover a large portion of his fee through his sale. Its probably be better to sell than to loan him out again.

 

[LeedsCityRam]

6 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Depressing and for my money, the worst call of Mad Mel's tenure, though I concede that I was pretty excited when we signed him as pre-injury, the lad looked an absolute beast. When we signed Bradders and that midfielder who was so f****** bland that I've forgotten his name for around £11 million combined, I thought we'd taken leave of our senses, but £8M plus add-ons (none of which will be paid, thankfully) for Bielik trumps it by some way.

By my count, Bielik has played @48 league games for Derby. He's only 13 games short of that figure for Birmingham. Grim AF and my guess is that his likely fee should he stay at Brum would be little more than a miserly £1 million, leaving the club with somewhere between £1M and £3M still to pay, with the latter figure most likely IMO.

Had he honoured his contract, there's little doubt in my mind we'd already be back in the Championship, but I'm heartened by the fact that he got to fulfil his ambition to play in a World Cup, because that's what really matters 🤐

And to add insult to injury, Bielik was bought after Morris decided to put the club up for sale. A club record spend on a player he knew someone else would be likely to pay.

I'm not actually that annoyed at Bielik, he's a young lad with clear ability to play higher & his injuries will have probably accelerated his desire to grab as much as he can whilst his body can stand it i.e. play at a World Cup & as high a level as possible. I can tolerate that whilst we're not paying his wages & I've a feeling he won't be playing for many more years given his injury record.  Obviously there's the contractual obligation & we as fans will demand loyalty but that should work both ways; some fans are very quick to want rid of a player on a contract if they don't perceive their value to the club.

I'm not convinced he'd have been an asset last season because of his stated lack of motivation to play in League One & we'd have been saddled with his wages, which will have impacted our ability under the business plan to bring in the quality we did recruit (McGoldrick, Hourihane et al). We just need a club to take him off our hands pronto & depressingly, the 1m you suggest is probably the ceiling we can expect.

[TomTom92]

11 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Football creditors have to be paid at 100% to retain EFL membership. There was no advantage to Clowes paying Arsenal off early, when 4 year payment terms were in existence. We still owe instalment(s) due under the contract. I don’t know the figure, but many seem to state it to be £1.5m outstanding in total. I can’t see any club coming up with that personally over the summer, but I would be happy to be surprised. Very poor value for money. Anyaesque.

Nobody was as big a waste of money than that cockroach Anya.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, TomTom92 said:

Nobody was as big a waste of money than that cockroach Anya.

Why do you call him a cockroach? My understanding, which is limited admittedly, is that he was signed on a transfer fee with instalments based on appearances/milestones. It was the club who didn’t want to play him rather than him not wanting to play. He kept himself fit, and played for the youth teams, therefore I think you are being harsh. I would have probably sat on my contract in his situation. Another Mel classic signing for a manager he got rid of a few weeks later.

[May Contain Nuts]

2 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

Nobody was as big a waste of money than that cockroach Anya.

Can I ask what Anya actually did wrong to be called a cockroach?

There was no hint that he ever did anything to make himself unavailable to play, trained badly etc and he was praised for setting a good example to / having a good attitude around the U23s when he was selected at that level.

On the rare occasion he did play he never noticeable lacked effort nor was he even particularly poor. One of his final appearances saw a perfectly good goal chalked off in a game he'd played well in.

The manager who signed him (along with Vydra) saw them two as players who'd successfully played together before, and their early performances showed they had an understanding. Pearson was sacked and he was never really given a chance again.

I don't seem to recall there being much talk of offers for potential loans, and no evidence that he ever turned down an opportunity to play football elsewhere, but I may be misremembering that.

His main crime seems to be that he didn't really fit in with the 'lad culture' and that the club stupidly saw fit to put appearance activated payments into his transfer fee. 

Again, only one person to blame here and that's Mel Morris.

It is clear from his subsequent disappearance that he's one of those players who saw football as a job he happened to be good at, rather than being someone who loved the game, which I suppose is a reason people couldn't / wouldn't warm to him (and why he didn't fit into a dressing room lead by Keezy The Clown) but that's probably not as uncommon as we think.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[TomTom92]

13 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Why do you call him a cockroach? My understanding, which is limited admittedly, is that he was signed on a transfer fee with instalments based on appearances/milestones. It was the club who didn’t want to play him rather than him not wanting to play. He kept himself fit, and played for the youth teams, therefore I think you are being harsh. I would have probably sat on my contract in his situation. Another Mel classic signing for a manager he got rid of a few weeks later.

I’ve got no proof. But I’d be very surprised if no offers came him for him during the last 2 years of him being here. He sat on a big fat contract rather than playing..his prerogative but not stuff of comic books is it.
 
I could be wrong and maybe he never had an offer to leave but I doubt it. 

[TomTom92]

14 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

Can I ask what Anya actually did wrong to be called a cockroach?

There was no hint that he ever did anything to make himself unavailable to play, trained badly etc and he was praised for setting a good example to / having a good attitude around the U23s when he was selected at that level.

On the rare occasion he did play he never noticeable lacked effort nor was he even particularly poor. One of his final appearances saw a perfectly good goal chalked off in a game he'd played well in.

The manager who signed him (along with Vydra) saw them two as players who'd successfully played together before, and their early performances showed they had an understanding. Pearson was sacked and he was never really given a chance again.

I don't seem to recall there being much talk of offers for potential loans, and no evidence that he ever turned down an opportunity to play football elsewhere, but I may be misremembering that.

His main crime seems to be that he didn't really fit in with the 'lad culture' and that the club stupidly saw fit to put appearance activated payments into his transfer fee. 

Again, only one person to blame here and that's Mel Morris.

 

I’ve got no proof but I doubt he didn’t have offers at some point during his spell here. I imagine we were keen to get rid. 

Any footballer who’s priority isn’t to play football gets a thumbs down from me.

[i-Ram]

7 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

I’ve got no proof. But I’d be very surprised if no offers came him for him during the last 2 years of him being here. He sat on a big fat contract rather than playing..his prerogative but not stuff of comic books is it.
 
I could be wrong and maybe he never had an offer to leave but I doubt it. 

Ok, but I didn’t read beyond I’ve got no proof.

[TomTom92]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

Ok, but I didn’t read beyond I’ve got no proof.

Sorry your honour.

[May Contain Nuts]

27 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Any footballer who’s priority isn’t to play football gets a thumbs down from me.

So Rob Hulse, Lewin Nyatanga...

All of these?

https://ng.opera.news/ng/en/sports/amp/5bc0939474c13b98e83e7653c76773e8

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8168413/Meet-footballers-dont-like-football-Including-Batistuta-Ter-Stegen-Tevez.html

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[Ram-Alf]

2 hours ago, TomTom92 said:

Nobody was as big a waste of money than that cockroach Anya.

To be fare I'd have sooner we played with a Cockroach, At least it would have been able to cross a ball with the amount of legs they have 😁

As for him running his contract down...I'd have done the same 

[TomTom92]

2 hours ago, Kokosnuss said:

So Rob Hulse, Lewin Nyatanga...

All of these?

https://ng.opera.news/ng/en/sports/amp/5bc0939474c13b98e83e7653c76773e8

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8168413/Meet-footballers-dont-like-football-Including-Batistuta-Ter-Stegen-Tevez.html

 

Rob Hulse put a shift in irrespective of his thoughts for the game. He also didn’t sit on his bum for 2 seasons counting the pennies.

[May Contain Nuts]

25 minutes ago, TomTom92 said:

Rob Hulse put a shift in irrespective of his thoughts for the game. He also didn’t sit on his bum for 2 seasons counting the pennies.

...but you've displayed no real evidence , as has been pointed put, that Anya did that either. Just a passing thought that he 'must' have had offers.

Anya wouldn't have been a semi-regular on an international team (even if it was Scotland... who let's be fair rely on effort more than talent) without "putting a shift in".

if he wasn't being selected for other reasons that's nothing to do with him.

I'm not trying to have a pop at you or your views, I just think sometimes people need to be a bit more considerate and stop holding players to expectations based upon the money they're paid, the fee that's been paid for them, or anything else.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Kokosnuss

[B4ev6is]

I think biclick money was paid off when clows was paid up then.

[Raich Carter]

18 hours ago, i-Ram said:

Football creditors have to be paid at 100% to retain EFL membership. There was no advantage to Clowes paying Arsenal off early, when 4 year payment terms were in existence. We still owe instalment(s) due under the contract. I don’t know the figure, but many seem to state it to be £1.5m outstanding in total. I can’t see any club coming up with that personally over the summer, but I would be happy to be surprised. Very poor value for money. Anyaesque.

Ah right, that makes sense. As ever with us, another key signing where everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

I agree that it's highly unlikely we'll get £1.5m given his wages, last year of contract and our position. Just hope we get a few clubs in for him and have a little bidding war but at 25, with his injury record, he's quite a risk.

[TomTom92]

57 minutes ago, Kokosnuss said:

...but you've displayed no real evidence , as has been pointed put, that Anya did that either. Just a passing thought that he 'must' have had offers.

Anya wouldn't have been a semi-regular on an international team (even if it was Scotland... who let's be fair rely on effort more than talent) without "putting a shift in".

if he wasn't being selected for other reasons that's nothing to do with him.

I'm not trying to have a pop at you or your views, I just think sometimes people need to be a bit more considerate and stop holding players to expectations based upon the money they're paid, the fee that's been paid for them, or anything else.

Well I’m happy to agree that there will be players you and others dislike that I won’t mind and vice versa. 
 
Plus we’ll never know but if it was proven that he genuinely had no offers despite his agent doing their best to get him a move then I apologise. 
 
But until that improbable scenario happens I’ll continue to hold a very low opinion of him.

[B4ev6is]

24 minutes ago, Raich Carter said:

Ah right, that makes sense. As ever with us, another key signing where everything that could go wrong, did go wrong.

I agree that it's highly unlikely we'll get £1.5m given his wages, last year of contract and our position. Just hope we get a few clubs in for him and have a little bidding war but at 25, with his injury record, he's quite a risk.

Could man utd take him off our hands someone give steve mac a call get him convince there manager he is worth a gamble on.