Petition to Derby to remove our relationship to gambling companies

[Mucker1884]

I have to say, the OP is tragic, and @whestonram gets my full respect for at least trying to do something that they believe in, and feel strongly about.

That is not in question.

But where do we draw the line?

Rename the Toyota stand because we know someone who was ran over and killed by a Toyota?
Cancel all alcohol adverts because one of the players grandfather died of  liver disease? 
Refuse to play away at Stoke?  

 

The OP gets my respect, and best wishes, as a fellow Ram, but my current thoughts are that I won't be signing the petition.

?

 

[Alty_Ram]

Firstly, total respect for what the OP is trying to do, that's an absolute tragedy and a needless loss of a young life.

Ultimately I think you can only make these decisions on a very much personal level as it affects you. I understand that in these cash strapped times that clubs will grab whichever is the biggest offer and I wouldn't boycott games or anything if we went down that route again.

That said, I really really hope that we can buck the trend and find another source of money because betting does seem to have a stranglehold on sponsorship. I have watched that Clowes interview and he mentions 'integrity' a number of times. He is clearly looking to reset the relationship with the EFL and regardless of what has happened to this point, I think that is the right thing to do. I do wonder if he has a strong personal preference as to the sort of company that he wants to deal with re sponsorship though. The process is certainly not being rushed.

[Wolfie]

I wasn't happy by being sponsored by betting, but to be honest it was no worse IMO than the parasitic junk food promoting: Just Eat.

[RoyMac5]

So if we can't cut all links with gambling we should cut none, is that what some are saying. 

Got to start somewhere, maybe it will act as a reminder of companies 'social responsibilities', maybe it won't.

Edited August 3, 2022 by RoyMac5

[JoetheRam]

If it helps get a floating hologram of Ray Winstone's head off my screen,

Or it stops Patrick O'Power's Bantersaurus Rex philosophy on life pervading my podcasts,

Or it persuades the 'lads' who spend their entire lives talking about lumping on and laying off, and wasting their money on 10 team 'accas' to do something more productive with their time,

Or frees up space and creative time to advertise reading a book, or talking to elderly relatives, or learning a skill, or visiting a museum,

Or stops someone placing their first bet,

Or stops someone placing their last...

Then it seems like a good idea to me.

Keep gambling, but don't promote it. Same as keep smoking, but don't promote it, keep fast food and booze but don't promote them. They do enough damage on their own.

 

[ossieram]

Sorry but I won't be signing. 

Would people be happy with Esso or BP on the shirt whilst people are paying extortionate prices for fuel? Or maybe British gas or EON when people are probably going to freeze to death because of high energy prices?

Arguments can be found against most companies that are in a position to sponsor a football club and unless we go back to the days of no sponsor on shirts, there will be people who are unhappy. 

[R@M]

5 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

Can Derby County FC disassociate themselves from gambling advertising/sponsorship without first pulling out of whichever Skybet division they happen to be in at that time?  ?‍♂️

We tried that in May

[LERam]

It's a difficult one and it's very easy to say it should be banned when you read heartbreaking stories. I myself have an addictive personality and have my own issues as a youngster with gambling and drugs amongst other things. I remember a specific moment being told about a dead cert and putting everything I had in my account on it chasing money I'd spent elsewhere.

But I found the issue was ultimately me, my personality and my own flaws. 

Maybe some limitations might help making it so normal and easily accessible? But at some point I think individuals have to take some personal responsibility. Otherwise everyone will need everything controlled, alcohol, junk food, shopping habits, porn etc. All can lead to addiction and all can have severe consequences.

I don't want that to come across as insensitive and I feel for the original poster and the poor guys family and friends. 

That's just my view, which is of course, one of many different ones. I don't know if my view is right, skewed by my own experiences. Maybe I still blame myself for a past me instead of outside factors, I don't know.

[Carl Sagan]

14 hours ago, rammieib said:

@David’s post was excellent and far more eloquent than I can put.

I think the OP, like any fan shouldn’t be making statements such as “DC is a good guy, I’m sure he will do the right thing” - these types of posts are trying to apply a subtle pressure (albeit on a forum I'm sure makes little difference in isolation) to actually align with the views of the OP and if he doesn’t, makes him sound like a bad guy. I thought we as fans could be better than that?

You're right the wording is insidious. It's not for the OP to tell David Clowes what's the morally correct or incorrect thing for DC to do.

[LERam]

Sorry I'm just going to add to the above. 

I do think all this "virtual betting" needs cutting back with max stakes per day. For the people I've seen addicted, the main go to is virtual slots, virtual racing, virtual roulette where its all been predetermined to make sure you never come out on top in the long run. I remember seeing a lad in the bookies with his £400 cash meant for some bill. Playing slots and was upto £1000 up... He was that addicted that winning just didn't seem enough, he walked out with out the £1000 profit or £400 he walked in with that day. And I saw the look in his eyes of despair.

So I don't agree with a complete ban, but there should be limits on how much a betting company can take off you on a predetermined event.

[whestonram]

2 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

You're right the wording is insidious. It's not for the OP to tell David Clowes what's the morally correct or incorrect thing for DC to do.

Why not? With the proviso that I/we can only tell him what we think is morally correct, why shouldn't his customers seek to influence him? He can disagree, we can't force him, but we can make him think about it.  I hope that when he does, he'll see that gambling addiction kills hundreds of people each year, and that he can play a part in reducing that by not promoting dangerous gambling products.

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, whestonram said:

Why not? With the proviso that I/we can only tell him what we think is morally correct, why shouldn't his customers seek to influence him? He can disagree, we can't force him, but we can make him think about it.  I hope that when he does, he'll see that gambling addiction kills hundreds of people each year, and that he can play a part in reducing that by not promoting dangerous gambling products.

Stating "David Clowes is a good guy - I'm sure he'll listen" is vastly different from telling him what "[you] think is morally correct".

[AutoWindscreens]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Stating "David Clowes is a good guy - I'm sure he'll listen" is vastly different from telling him what "[you] think is morally correct".

True, except he's not talking to David Clowes, he's talking to us.

[Ram-Alf]

3 hours ago, LERam said:

Sorry I'm just going to add to the above. 

 

So I don't agree with a complete ban, but there should be limits on how much a betting company can take off you on a predetermined event.

Very very rare I bet, Altho I spunked £100 on the Dogs being relegated ?, I don't understand betting odds, Or play the machines, So my question is this.

How would the above work, What would stop the person moving onto the next bet or terminal, Walk down most high streets in the UK and the betting shops are as many as fast food outlets

[Reggie Greenwood]

8 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Very very rare I bet, Altho I spunked £100 on the Dogs being relegated ?, I don't understand betting odds, Or play the machines, So my question is this.

How would the above work, What would stop the person moving onto the next bet or terminal, Walk down most high streets in the UK and the betting shops are as many as fast food outlets

Hope that is one bet you win gig on ??

[LERam]

20 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Very very rare I bet, Altho I spunked £100 on the Dogs being relegated ?, I don't understand betting odds, Or play the machines, So my question is this.

How would the above work, What would stop the person moving onto the next bet or terminal, Walk down most high streets in the UK and the betting shops are as many as fast food outlets

I have no idea with physical machines, they've lowered the stakes, maybe they need throttling so you can't bet so much per spin/min? I know in the past someone could burn through £100's in a very short space of time. Maybe slow down how fast it can be lost?

Online, companies could have limits imposed that could be spent on virtual events. Of course it doesn't stop someone signing up for multiple sites, it may help though?

[Ram-Alf]

23 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Hope that is one bet you win gig on ??

5/6...£183.33

[whestonram]

5 hours ago, LERam said:

It's a difficult one and it's very easy to say it should be banned when you read heartbreaking stories. I myself have an addictive personality and have my own issues as a youngster with gambling and drugs amongst other things. I remember a specific moment being told about a dead cert and putting everything I had in my account on it chasing money I'd spent elsewhere.

But I found the issue was ultimately me, my personality and my own flaws. 

Maybe some limitations might help making it so normal and easily accessible? But at some point I think individuals have to take some personal responsibility. Otherwise everyone will need everything controlled, alcohol, junk food, shopping habits, porn etc. All can lead to addiction and all can have severe consequences.

I don't want that to come across as insensitive and I feel for the original poster and the poor guys family and friends. 

That's just my view, which is of course, one of many different ones. I don't know if my view is right, skewed by my own experiences. Maybe I still blame myself for a past me instead of outside factors, I don't know.

The gambling companies like the story to be that it is about your choice.  To some extent it is of course, but online casinos are so addictive, it gets beyond you very easily.  There must be some reason why some people get addicted and some (most) don't, but not having the addictive product put in front of your face would help not becoming addicted.  My Gambling with Lives colleagues would say that you shouldn't blame yourself for becoming addicted.  It was because Jack did blame himself that he took his own life.

[whestonram]

2 hours ago, AutoWindscreens said:

True, except he's not talking to David Clowes, he's talking to us.

Well, I'm asking you to support me in addressing a petition to David Clowes.  And I am hoping that he'll have the same view as me about what is morally correct.

[AutoWindscreens]

48 minutes ago, whestonram said:

Well, I'm asking you to support me in addressing a petition to David Clowes.  And I am hoping that he'll have the same view as me about what is morally correct.

Yes I do support you. I was meaning to say that it was not really fair to criticize you for putting 'pressure' on David Clowes by saying that 'he's a good guy - I'm sure he'll listen', when you were not addressing that comment to David Clowes, but to us.