Gotta love Extinction Rebellion

[Boycie]

17 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

America's already put together a multi billion dollar package to reduce its carbon emissions and get it closer to the Paris agreement on emission standards so to say they won't isn't quite right. The big problems are China and emerging economies (I'd no longer put Russia in that bracket tbh) and how they manage to motivate growth whilst simultaneously reducing emissions. I'm not entirely sure how we can keep those things moving simultaneously, especially when changing our model of growth is an extremely costly thing to do. 

But you're not wrong in the fact that us alone changing how we create and use energy is not going to solve the problem that does stand before us. What we don't know is how we will manage the future, we can't contemplate technological breakthroughs in the next 50-100 years. To pretend we can in the way XR does is a mark of extreme arrogance, if you asked anyone in 1900 what 2000 would look like they'd all be remarkably incorrect. Does this mean we do nothing? no, but does it also mean the end is nigh? also no. 

 

Putting together a multi million package and actually doing something and keeping it going when Trump gets back in is another matter.  Well done for the pledges of commitment but unfortunately it isn’t quite right saying you’ll do something in the future and then actually doing it, time will tell.

One things for sure, while America, Russia, and the Middle East can access oil they won’t be interested in developing anything else.

[Leeds Ram]

2 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Putting together a multi million package and actually doing something and keeping it going when Trump gets back in is another matter.  Well done for the pledges of commitment but unfortunately it isn’t quite right saying you’ll do something in the future and then actually doing it, time will tell.

One things for sure, while America, Russia, and the Middle East can access oil they won’t be interested in developing anything else.

The package has gone through the house and senate so is law. It's part of a broader economic stimulus fixed in with trying to at least get a grip on the cost of healthcare specifically medication. If Trump gets back in... and the legislative branch has much stronger teeth in the US than over here so if the democrats can win an additional seat in the senate and keep their majority in the house then they'll be in good shape. 

I mean that's just not true. Diversification is necessary for those country's economies, especially so in parts of the Middle East where an over-reliance on natural assets has slowed growth in the economy in other areas. 

[Boycie]

9 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

The package has gone through the house and senate so is law. It's part of a broader economic stimulus fixed in with trying to at least get a grip on the cost of healthcare specifically medication. If Trump gets back in... and the legislative branch has much stronger teeth in the US than over here so if the democrats can win an additional seat in the senate and keep their majority in the house then they'll be in good shape. 

I mean that's just not true. Diversification is necessary for those country's economies, especially so in parts of the Middle East where an over-reliance on natural assets has slowed growth in the economy in other areas. 

You’ve heard of Donald Trump haven’t you? You’ve seen how he operates, the US has OBarma care doesn’t it?

[Leeds Ram]

2 minutes ago, Boycie said:

You’ve heard of Donald Trump haven’t you? You’ve seen how he operates, the US has OBarma care doesn’t it?

Last time he had a Republican congress and he could make drastic changes he made an absolute meal of fixing Obama care, tax rates etc. because he's chaotic, capricious, and doesn't seem like a good delegator. In the next cycle, if he won the Presidency (I'm not convinced he'll even win the Republican primary) then he'll likely be up against at least a democratic house possibly senate too. The result would be absolute gridlock legislatively. Whilst executive orders are increasingly common and powerful tools of the executive they aren't law making tools that addresses the thing we're discussing limiting the scope of some of what Trump could do. 

[Boycie]

Trump wanted to ban wind turbines as they killed too many birds.

He ought to have let his supporters shoot them if they got too close instead.  

[GboroRam]

28 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Trump wanted to ban wind turbines as they killed too many birds.

He ought to have let his supporters shoot them if they got too close instead.  

I don't think Trump supporters shooting windmills will achieve anything TBH. 

[Norman]

Wouldn't Trump's home oil production he had successfully going be a lot more environmentally friendly than begging Saudi Arabia to ship theirs half way round the world instead. 

[Archied]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

Wouldn't Trump's home oil production he had successfully going be a lot more environmentally friendly than begging Saudi Arabia to ship theirs half way round the world instead. 

You can’t come on here pointing out sensible stuff like that ;; tut tut 

[Ram-Alf]

They'd better leave the crazy golf alone ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62532840

[Bob The Badger]

3 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

The package has gone through the house and senate so is law. It's part of a broader economic stimulus fixed in with trying to at least get a grip on the cost of healthcare specifically medication. If Trump gets back in... and the legislative branch has much stronger teeth in the US than over here so if the democrats can win an additional seat in the senate and keep their majority in the house then they'll be in good shape. 

I mean that's just not true. Diversification is necessary for those country's economies, especially so in parts of the Middle East where an over-reliance on natural assets has slowed growth in the economy in other areas. 

Something radical is going to have to happen for the Democrats not to get obliterated in November.

And 'd put money that Trump won't get back in.

60% of Republicans don't want him to stand and whereas they'd probably mostly vote for him in a general election, DeSantis will beat him for the nomination.

The bad news is DeSantis is scarier than Trump in many ways and will grab a load of those swing voters back that are done with Trump and his everlasting legal troubles.

I thought this was a good piece on what lies ahead.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/13/desantis-trump-republican-campaigns-rivals-2024 

[Stive Pesley]

On 13/08/2022 at 13:30, Boycie said:

Some people want opinions removed rather than challenge them, that’s my view on some debates, it’s all a bit woke.

Spoken like a true moderator ?

 

20 hours ago, Archied said:

it does really concern me these people are opening a door very wide on government being able to bring in laws to stop peoples rights to protest with the misguided support of people sick to the back teeth of these loons

This is my main problem with it all - it doesn't actually matter if you agree with XR or not, we should all be concerned about the draconian laws being rushed through to stop people protesting AT ALL as a result

 

[Boycie]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

Spoken like a true moderator ?

 

This is my main problem with it all - it doesn't actually matter if you agree with XR or not, we should all be concerned about the draconian laws being rushed through to stop people protesting AT ALL as a result

 

I agree, we should be able to protest. 
That goes for protesting for increasing of pay for Barristers, NHS, Police and everyone else who feels under paid.  Even the railway workers, but some will feel that protesting should be banned because of “Union Barons”

Which is weird as a Baron is part of the upper class or elite isn’t it?

Anyway, we’ll be getting complaints about this thread getting into politics next. But I’m not sure how we can discuss a subject like this and not do.

But, yes, everyone should be able to shout at the government from the gates of Downing Street if the wish. That’s our right of free speech isn’t it?

Edited August 14, 2022 by Boycie

[Crewton]

5 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I don't think Trump supporters shooting windmills will achieve anything TBH. 

It'll annoy the Dutch, which is no bad thing. 

[PistoldPete]

2 hours ago, Boycie said:

I agree, we should be able to protest. 
That goes for protesting for increasing of pay for Barristers, NHS, Police and everyone else who feels under paid.  Even the railway workers, but some will feel that protesting should be banned because of “Union Barons”

Which is weird as a Baron is part of the upper class or elite isn’t it?

Anyway, we’ll be getting complaints about this thread getting into politics next. But I’m not sure how we can discuss a subject like this and not do.

But, yes, everyone should be able to shout at the government from the gates of Downing Street if the wish. That’s our right of free speech isn’t it?

No because they are stopping someone making a speech (or at least anyone hearing them) by shouting over them.  

[Stive Pesley]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/12/mass-crop-failures-expected-in-england-as-farmers-demand-hosepipe-bans

Some speculation about the impact on crops and farming in the UK as a result of the current drought. We had some friends over in the week and they own a cattle farm in Lincolnshire, so I know that at least some of the concerns here are valid (mainly about running out of cattle feed)

But that's not really my point - I've been accused of being a doom-monger for pointing out various articles that paint a gloomy picture, with the opposing view essentially being to ignore such predictions and hope that they are wrong

So the question really is - when DO you start believing the predictions and taking action? Because it feels like the answer is - not until there is literally no food, mass migration from the equator where the land has become uninhabitable, sea levels have risen and people's houses are underwater, the bees are all dead and there is no top soil left

Needless to say that's a very stupid answer

[Boycie]

43 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/12/mass-crop-failures-expected-in-england-as-farmers-demand-hosepipe-bans

Some speculation about the impact on crops and farming in the UK as a result of the current drought. We had some friends over in the week and they own a cattle farm in Lincolnshire, so I know that at least some of the concerns here are valid (mainly about running out of cattle feed)

But that's not really my point - I've been accused of being a doom-monger for pointing out various articles that paint a gloomy picture, with the opposing view essentially being to ignore such predictions and hope that they are wrong

So the question really is - when DO you start believing the predictions and taking action? Because it feels like the answer is - not until there is literally no food, mass migration from the equator where the land has become uninhabitable, sea levels have risen and people's houses are underwater, the bees are all dead and there is no top soil left

Needless to say that's a very stupid answer

Maybe stop the billions of water that’s lost in the system everyday due to leaks and stop the water companies giving dividends to the shareholders and bonuses to boss’s.  
They are failing.

[maxjam]

18 minutes ago, Boycie said:

Maybe stop the billions of water that’s lost in the system everyday due to leaks and stop the water companies giving dividends to the shareholders and bonuses to boss’s.  
They are failing.

I don't suppose this has helped much either...

[Archied]

8 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/12/mass-crop-failures-expected-in-england-as-farmers-demand-hosepipe-bans

Some speculation about the impact on crops and farming in the UK as a result of the current drought. We had some friends over in the week and they own a cattle farm in Lincolnshire, so I know that at least some of the concerns here are valid (mainly about running out of cattle feed)

But that's not really my point - I've been accused of being a doom-monger for pointing out various articles that paint a gloomy picture, with the opposing view essentially being to ignore such predictions and hope that they are wrong

So the question really is - when DO you start believing the predictions and taking action? Because it feels like the answer is - not until there is literally no food, mass migration from the equator where the land has become uninhabitable, sea levels have risen and people's houses are underwater, the bees are all dead and there is no top soil left

Needless to say that's a very stupid answer

Was going to answer but I see it’s been done already , our drought issues are a result of stupidity, greed, and short term profit before long term planning, just like our energy crisis , cost of lockdown crisis , nhs, education,,,,,,,, well pretty much everything 

[Crewton]

All these things are true : water should never have been privatised, the water companies have failed in every aspect of development and management of the system and water storage and distribution systems have had little real investment in the last 30 years when successive governments should have been planning for this.

"Woulda shoulda coulda" however will not solve the immediate and short term problems, so until the government gets a grip on it, the country is going to have to accept some changes to its lifestyle choices if it wants to ensure people and businesses aren't seriously harmed. 

[Ram-Alf]

24 minutes ago, Crewton said:

All these things are true : water should never have been privatised, the water companies have failed in every aspect of development and management of the system and water storage and distribution systems have had little real investment in the last 30 years when successive governments should have been planning for this.

"Woulda shoulda coulda" however will not solve the immediate and short term problems, so until the government gets a grip on it, the country is going to have to accept some changes to its lifestyle choices if it wants to ensure people and businesses aren't seriously harmed. 

Thatcher the milk snatcher sold all the crown jewels, Workers in each industry were given free shares to keep or cash in, Those who cashed in the big winners were the multi nationals, The CEOs of these mulits are friends and family of the Government, Billions upon billions has been syphoned off to those who already had a very healthy bank balance, We've been f ucked over by successive Governments since the 80s.

Now we have that blonde bint Truss saying it's not a bad thing for companies to make a profit, That's true it isn't, With profits you can re invest, Pay your workers a good wage, But to make vastly excessive profits is immoral, BP 5 billion Shell/Centrica 2/3 billion, A Saudi oil company 48 billion, And yet those in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are struggling to live, They have 2 choices well one really...petrol or food, A taxi driver needs petrol to earn money to buy food, If he can't afford the petrol then no food.

Here in the UK it's eating of heating for some, The UK Government had better be prepared for what's round the corner, I've seen this before with the Poll Tax Riots, If you pi$$ off your electorate you're in bother.

Governments...I've $hit em.