Gotta love Extinction Rebellion

[Archied]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Ok, see how far you get with your idea of cancelling world cups, olympics, musicicans touring round the world etc. Can't have one rule for those people, and another for the rest of us!

Loads of things are fine on zoom and working from home. Trying to get international consenous on how to fix our climate problems sounds like the sort of thing better to do in person. I can accept that a bit extra carbon will be released by world leaders getting together to help protect our future.

????????, wo wo wo,,,, I’m not comming up with the idea of cancelling all this stuff , just responding to your idea of cancelling everything else whilst deciding what shouldn’t be cancelled , stunning self blindness yet again , nothing if not consistent eh 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

Only if you think 2+2=497. That comment does put much of what you post into context though.

Suggest you re read your post and check out the context of we 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

 

If you were living in Bangladesh and watching the rising tides, you probably wouldn't distiguish between a celebrity flying around in a private jet, or a british homewner being crucified by a small amount of their total tax going to green inititavies. 

I think XR are targeting the right people. It's just easy for us to say our votes and spending power mean nothing and it's all the elite's fault. Most if whom we've put in power by electing them and buying their products.

If you were a child living in Africa slaving on getting the materials for millions of new electric cars out of the ground you wouldn’t differentiate between a few hypocrite elites preaching and hordes of self blind middle classes preaching and patting each other on the back

Edited July 21, 2022 by Archied

[ariotofmyown]

Interesting article here on the media's approach to climate change. Maybe gives more context to XR attacking media offices.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/23/snowflakes-climate-change-right-culture-war-daily-mail

[Archied]

Well done Tour de France fans who dragged these idiot so called protester’s  off the road and stopped them wrecking a stage of the race ,,

which by the way is a cycle race which plays a big part in the upsurge of people getting out of cars and on bikes promoting less pollution and more health and fitness in people ,,,,, if brains were dynamite these self obsessed clowns couldn’t blow they’re own hats off

[ariotofmyown]

3 hours ago, Archied said:

Well done Tour de France fans who dragged these idiot so called protester’s  off the road and stopped them wrecking a stage of the race ,,

which by the way is a cycle race which plays a big part in the upsurge of people getting out of cars and on bikes promoting less pollution and more health and fitness in people ,,,,, if brains were dynamite these self obsessed clowns couldn’t blow they’re own hats off

Aren't they just attacking highly paid sportsmen? You seemed ok with this last week. Us crucified masses need to fight back vs the evil elites. We are literally doing all we can to fight climate change from our shanty towns and caves. It's these international sports people, jetting around in their planes, who are ruining it for everyone. It's a two tier world if you hadn't heard. I think we should....

 

 

Sorry, just had a delivery. Some appliance from China that will last about a year. Anyway, a serious point.  There isn't much more the UK can do to combat climate change. What we need is for China to cut their emmisions, but there is literally nothing any of us in this green and pleasant land can do.

[Archied]

7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Aren't they just attacking highly paid sportsmen? You seemed ok with this last week. Us crucified masses need to fight back vs the evil elites. We are literally doing all we can to fight climate change from our shanty towns and caves. It's these international sports people, jetting around in their planes, who are ruining it for everyone. It's a two tier world if you hadn't heard. I think we should....

 

 

Sorry, just had a delivery. Some appliance from China that will last about a year. Anyway, a serious point.  There isn't much more the UK can do to combat climate change. What we need is for China to cut their emmisions, but there is literally nothing any of us in this green and pleasant land can do.

No , they are just easy street hero’s , drama addicts lucky enough to have not enough real problems in they’re own lives to deal with and get through

nice to have you back though now the quandary on Bangladeshi v African children has been given a swerve a bit like the old game of minority trumps ,

xr are a bunch of loons who will push people too far and come unstuck then be crying about they’re right s after trampling on everybody else’s 

[ariotofmyown]

16 minutes ago, Archied said:

No , they are just easy street hero’s , drama addicts lucky enough to have not enough real problems in they’re own lives to deal with and get through

nice to have you back though now the quandary on Bangladeshi v African children has been given a swerve a bit like the old game of minority trumps ,

xr are a bunch of loons who will push people too far and come unstuck then be crying about they’re right s after trampling on everybody else’s 

I know you are bravely doing all you can, but give this a read

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/24/climate-sceptics-protest-emergency-activists

[Archied]

7 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I know you are bravely doing all you can, but give this a read

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/24/climate-sceptics-protest-emergency-activists

I’m not in the least interested in loons who have no grasp of reality who run around doing stupid stuff the in the main is totally counter productive to they’re stated aims , making ordinary people often already difficult lives more difficult that would happily leave someone to die in an ambulance while they block roads , live totally hypocritical lives , 

I now know loads of people with electric cars yet I don’t know many for whom it’s they’re only car , it’s usually a second or a third car ,government s lurch from one policy to another that creates more take make throw away that lines the pockets of the already far too rich and powerful individual s and corporates only to change tack a few years in ,, diesel anyone?
I laugh my nuts off at those who are happy to fill the world oceans and landfills with billions of tons of plastic face masks and test kits because they think it may save they’re ageing lives from a virus kills a tiny percentage of people who are at or above life expectancy age but will spout how it’s vital to save the lives of future generations and the young ,

sorry mate but I’m sick to death of extremists idiots so obsessed with they’re pet area of concern without the brains or self awareness to look at a whole picture or even themselves ,

what is the real cost of this forced drive to electric vehicles in terms of impact on the planet and humans for instance 

I could go on but what’s the point you believe theses idiots are hero’s and that’s that 

[Carl Sagan]

On 20/07/2022 at 12:40, JoetheRam said:

Is it worth asking why China and India produce so much CO2?

Manufacturing a large percentage of the crap that western consumers buy might be part of the reason? I mean they're not just burning resources for no reason are they?

Let's not kid ourselves that we don't just outsource our emissions (or even our carefully sorted recycling).

Capitalism requires continual growth to sustain itself and until it finds a way to exist without destroying the planet (my internal Commie says this is impossible, internal optimist says it might happen), or an as yet undeveloped, superior system is found, then we're not going to solve anything.

This is simply factually wrong. Here's a thorough analysis from Our World in Data: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

The UK has dramatically reduced emissions even when you account for consumption and trade, to the extent that our emissions nowadays count pretty much for diddly squat in the big picture. Climate change is something on a global scale yet we can all see the impacts happening here in the UK at a local level. Some of those impacts are bad and some are good. For instance it would be disingenuous to suggest we're not having a lovely summer. 

But it's an error of logic to suggest that by reducing emissions even further in the UK we will have more than a minuscule impact on climate change. Going back to the opening post, this is the frustration of the middle class idiots at extinction rebellion who are effectively professional protesters wanting something to protest about (which is how and why XR was formed - they wanted to launch some sort of protest movement and a branding expert advised this would be a good area to pick). If you want to make a difference in this area there are only three places that really matter, which are America, China and India. Then there are three lower-tier emitters in Germany, Russia and Japan. If XR really cared about anything they could hop on a train to Germany and try to close down the coal mines or coal-fired power stations. But that's far too much like really caring about the problem when they rather enjoy having a two-week jolly/festival camped out in Trafalgar Square.

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Carl Sagan

[Archied]

53 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

This is simply factually wrong. Here's a thorough analysis from Our World in Data: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

The UK has dramatically reduced emissions even when you account for consumption and trade, to the extent that our emissions nowadays count pretty much for diddly squat in the big picture. Climate change is something on a global scale yet we can all see the impacts happening here in the UK at a local level. Some of those impacts are bad and some are good. For instance it would be disingenuous to suggest we're not having a lovely summer. 

But it's an error of logic to suggest that by reducing emissions even further in the UK we will have more than a minuscule impact on climate change. Going back to the opening post, this is the frustration of the middle class idiots at extinction rebellion who are effectively professional protesters wanting something to protest about (which is how and why XR was formed - they wanted to launch some sort of protest movement and a branding expert advised this would be a good area to pick). If you want to make a difference in this area there are only three places that really matter, which are America, China and India. Then there are three lower-tier emitters in Germany, Russia and Japan. If XR really cared about anything they could hop on a train to Germany and try to close down the coal mines or coal-fired power stations. But that's far too much like really caring about the problem when they rather enjoy having a two-week jolly/festival camped out in Trafalgar Square.

 

Or pouring milk over Harrods floors to protest dairy products , there’s people starving the world over and people in this country counting up the coins for the likes of a pint of milk , let alone food and heating in the next few months

i suggest most of these out of touch , spoilt , elderberry wine brewers just didn’t have the backs of they’re legs slapped as a kid 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Archied

[JoetheRam]

3 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

This is simply factually wrong. Here's a thorough analysis from Our World in Data: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

The UK has dramatically reduced emissions even when you account for consumption and trade, to the extent that our emissions nowadays count pretty much for diddly squat in the big picture. Climate change is something on a global scale yet we can all see the impacts happening here in the UK at a local level. Some of those impacts are bad and some are good. For instance it would be disingenuous to suggest we're not having a lovely summer. 

But it's an error of logic to suggest that by reducing emissions even further in the UK we will have more than a minuscule impact on climate change. Going back to the opening post, this is the frustration of the middle class idiots at extinction rebellion who are effectively professional protesters wanting something to protest about (which is how and why XR was formed - they wanted to launch some sort of protest movement and a branding expert advised this would be a good area to pick). If you want to make a difference in this area there are only three places that really matter, which are America, China and India. Then there are three lower-tier emitters in Germany, Russia and Japan. If XR really cared about anything they could hop on a train to Germany and try to close down the coal mines or coal-fired power stations. But that's far too much like really caring about the problem when they rather enjoy having a two-week jolly/festival camped out in Trafalgar Square.

 

Not sure what part of what I said is factually wrong.

The UK simply doesn't make anything and if we did we'd be a more polluting nation.

If China stopped making stuff they'd pollute less too.  But they won't because they benefit from doing so and "we" don't want them to because we all benefit from the cheap goods they produce.

 

[Rev]

10 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Not sure what part of what I said is factually wrong.

The UK simply doesn't make anything and if we did we'd be a more polluting nation.

If China stopped making stuff they'd pollute less too.  But they won't because they benefit from doing so and "we" don't want them to because we all benefit from the cheap goods they produce.

 

Just because it's not obvious from your possessions that we make things, doesn't make it true. 

I've worked in manufacturing all my life, and have experienced 3 whole days of unemployment in that time.

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 hour ago, JoetheRam said:

Not sure what part of what I said is factually wrong.

The UK simply doesn't make anything and if we did we'd be a more polluting nation.

If China stopped making stuff they'd pollute less too.  But they won't because they benefit from doing so and "we" don't want them to because we all benefit from the cheap goods they produce.

 

My moustache wax is made in the UK.

And one of my amplifiers.

[Stive Pesley]

4 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

extinction rebellion who are effectively professional protesters wanting something to protest about (which is how and why XR was formed - they wanted to launch some sort of protest movement and a branding expert advised this would be a good area to pick)

Citation needed

From what I understand, the XR movement came from the Occupy lot and are under the umbrella of Compassionate Revolution

CR are an anti-establishment campaign group looking to force systemic change via peaceful, mass civil disobedience

Their literature states

Quote

we do not believe we have a functioning democracy in the UK.

It has been captured by corporate and private interests and the media is owned by wealthy billionaires who use their power to systematically undermine informed public debate.

The existing political and economic system is set to destroy civilisation and much if not all life on earth if allowed to continue.

As such, we advocate campaigns of civil disobedience in the UK, which may include the breaking of laws, with the aim being to bring about A society of genuine equality without poverty and privilege

Now I've read dozens of posters on here stating that they don't think we have a functioning democracy. In fact it's probably the one belief that unites us all. 

Fair enough if people disagree with their tactics, but what would you suggest as an alternative? 

I don't always disagree with their tactics but I'm starting to think that we won't see any change unless there is a mass people-led movement against the current system

Maybe once gas & electric bills are £4k per year and there isn't enough food to go round, people might start to think they haven't much left to lose...

[Ram-Alf]

5 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Citation needed

From what I understand, the XR movement came from the Occupy lot and are under the umbrella of Compassionate Revolution

CR are an anti-establishment campaign group looking to force systemic change via peaceful, mass civil disobedience

Their literature states

Now I've read dozens of posters on here stating that they don't think we have a functioning democracy. In fact it's probably the one belief that unites us all. 

Fair enough if people disagree with their tactics, but what would you suggest as an alternative? 

I don't always disagree with their tactics but I'm starting to think that we won't see any change unless there is a mass people-led movement against the current system

Maybe once gas & electric bills are £4k per year and there isn't enough food to go round, people might start to think they haven't much left to lose...

China for Christs sakes, I watched last week a programme on how China has become the engine room for the worlds products, 40 years ago it was a sleeping giant, That giant has now woken up, They've built the worlds longest bridge, Millions of tons of concrete and metal, 100s of offshore wind power, Millions of Chinese are leaving rural areas for the Cities as that's where the work is, Ducking multi story buildings in every major city on the mainland  China has their fingers in the African pie, Again bridges and road systems, All made with the effort of coal furnaces...India not too far behind. 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/04/asia/hong-kong-zhuhai-macau-bridge/index.html#:~:text=The %2420 billion Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau Bridge is the,construction has been dogged by controversy. CNN —

The UK is going as fast as possible without hurting our ducked up economy, What else can we do?

[ketteringram]

50 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Citation needed

From what I understand, the XR movement came from the Occupy lot and are under the umbrella of Compassionate Revolution

CR are an anti-establishment campaign group looking to force systemic change via peaceful, mass civil disobedience

Their literature states

Now I've read dozens of posters on here stating that they don't think we have a functioning democracy. In fact it's probably the one belief that unites us all. 

Fair enough if people disagree with their tactics, but what would you suggest as an alternative? 

I don't always disagree with their tactics but I'm starting to think that we won't see any change unless there is a mass people-led movement against the current system

Maybe once gas & electric bills are £4k per year and there isn't enough food to go round, people might start to think they haven't much left to lose...

are you aware of what sort of system it is, that they would like to replace the current one with?

[Rev]

52 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Citation needed

From what I understand, the XR movement came from the Occupy lot and are under the umbrella of Compassionate Revolution

CR are an anti-establishment campaign group looking to force systemic change via peaceful, mass civil disobedience

Their literature states

Now I've read dozens of posters on here stating that they don't think we have a functioning democracy. In fact it's probably the one belief that unites us all. 

Fair enough if people disagree with their tactics, but what would you suggest as an alternative? 

I don't always disagree with their tactics but I'm starting to think that we won't see any change unless there is a mass people-led movement against the current system

Maybe once gas & electric bills are £4k per year and there isn't enough food to go round, people might start to think they haven't much left to lose...

http://dontpay.uk/

It's already started. 

I read the other day that the government could have taken ownership of the big 6 energy companies, at their stock market price, for less than they've chucked so far at Bulb Energy in special administration.  

Rail is now back in public ownership, however much the government pretend it isn't, in time so will the energy companies. 

How on earth have we ended up with a system whereby state owned  companies from abroad can suck money from our domestic market, to subsidise their operations in their own countries? 

 

[Ram-Alf]

19 minutes ago, Rev said:

http://dontpay.uk/

It's already started. 

 

How on earth have we ended up with a system whereby state owned  companies from abroad can suck money from our domestic market, to subsidise their operations in their own countries? 

 

Thatcherism, Capitalism, Stupidity and Greed.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Unlucky Alf

[Carl Sagan]

2 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

Not sure what part of what I said is factually wrong.

The UK simply doesn't make anything and if we did we'd be a more polluting nation.

If China stopped making stuff they'd pollute less too.  But they won't because they benefit from doing so and "we" don't want them to because we all benefit from the cheap goods they produce.

Sorry if I was harsh. You asked "why do China and India produce so much CO2?" following it up with that we "outsource our emissions", implying the reason their emissions are high is because of what they manufacture on our behalf and we import. And I showed that's not true.

I would like the UK to make more, partly as that would lead to more growth here and also because it would be an ingredient in a more decentralized world. I see decentralization as a future paradigm superior to capitalism and communism. You talk about capitalism requiring economic growth but all of us require growth or else Humanity will certainly go extinct as we won't be able to fun multiplanetary expansion. The reason the dinosaurs went extinct is because they didn't have a space programme.

You suggest we need to find a way to grow without destroying the planet. Decoupling economic growth from resource use has been the holy grail for some time but it now appears (see the link) that many Western nations have been successful in achieving that. Your internal optimist has been rewarded.