Inside story on Nigel Pearson's sacking

[Ram-Alf]

On 26/04/2022 at 07:46, CBRammette said:

So in summary of this thread when people said "its Keogh's fault" it all probably was ??

Not all...but a very large %

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Both Clement and Lampard hoped to return to Chelsea as Manager sooner rather than later.

Clement was, apparently, clearly told what MM expected ("the Derby Way", bring academy players into the squad etc) but Clement realised that that approach would mean he'd be treading water and wanted to be seen as successful ASAP. Morris snookered himself (and the club, ultimately) by acceding to Clement's demands for squad reinforcement rather than sticking to his own brief. He then started listening to the players complaints about Clement and pulled the trigger. 

At least with Lampard, who was explicit from the off about his ultimate ambition, he'd learnt by that stage that sacking managers was more expensive than allowing them to be poached. 

But Clement was 'looking' like he was doing well and was sacked for 'other reasons' else why not let him be poached? There was no grand plan from Morris so you're looking for the signs of something that didn't exist.

[Crewton]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

But Clement was 'looking' like he was doing well and was sacked for 'other reasons' else why not let him be poached? There was no grand plan from Morris so you're looking for the signs of something that didn't exist.

We were on a run of 8 games without a win (though still in the playoff positions). Fans were starting to grumble, there were clearly issues with the motivation of the squad - how does form drop off a cliff like that? The manager lost the dressing room, for reasons that included off the field issues. Morris acted in order to try to save the season, much as he later did with Pearson, on the back of what certain players told him. 

[Ram-Alf]

23 hours ago, Curtains said:

So if Keogh had the code why didn’t Mel stick with him . 
 

In the end we end up having to pay compensation after he was removed from the club 

Sage this is not fact OK, Rumour has it Keogh was treated as a sibling of very good standing by MM, The video at the Joiners was the catalyst for MM wanting to put Keogh up for adoption, MM felt he was badly let down by him, Then Keogh got a little upset and sued for his back pay...no honour among thieves. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

41 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

3. Those who want a root and branch change then you send for the Pearson's of this world, I bet the radio airwaves were going red hot when DCFC players heard Pearson was on his way, MM was/is a weak man when it comes to decision making, Sacking Clement had nothing to do with "the Derby Way" losing his case with Sam Rush, Losing his case with Keogh, Pi$$ing money out for fun, Keogh and Malone were the instigators of the Pearson debacle...I've posted this before on several occasions as they didn't like how they were treated, Keogh was the boss, Martin thought he was the boss, Malone just an ass, Look at Man Untd and how their dressing room is, You have this throughout football...there's more to this epilogue that will surface one day.

Fair play to Scott Malone. To have such an influence over the Derby dressing room while playing for Fulham is pretty impressive.

[Ram-Alf]

6 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Fair play to Scott Malone. To have such an influence over the Derby dressing room while playing for Fulham is pretty impressive.

Wow big error...Craig Bryson.

[RadioactiveWaste]

I just love the notion of wanting root and branch change, shake things up, rebuild the team for all of 5 minutes and giving up on it because it was going to involve shaking things up and not a majestic rise to immortality.

 

[cosmic]

Are the breakfast club able to spill the actual reason behind the Clement sacking now? Seeing as Mel Morris has gone.

"We can't reveal why, but let's just say he definitely had to go". Then something about treadmills.

[Amberram]

6 minutes ago, cosmic said:

Are the breakfast club able to spill the actual reason behind the Clement sacking now? Seeing as Mel Morris has gone.

"We can't reveal why, but let's just say he definitely had to go". Then something about treadmills.

Doubt it, they will miss out on future free sausages.

[Ambitious]

Pearson was the manager I wanted at the time, but I don't blame Mel for sacking him in all honesty.

Football management is an enigma, honestly, it's a lot of fronting but ultimately very little substance. Don't get me wrong, I know you can get world class coaches who can actively improve players and change the way they think about the game. However, especially at this level, it's mainly a lot of reactionary bullocks and getting lucky with the players you can sign. 

It's exactly why you will see managers do well in one or two places and not well in others. It's because their impact is negligible. As soon as Pearson had a slow start, after making unpopular decisions, it was never going to work. We were 20th in the league when he left and McClaren got us within a top six finish, before inexplicably being sacked for Gary Rowett.  It was really Mad Mel's worst season as the Derby owner, discounting this one (if you count it).

[RadioactiveWaste]

18 minutes ago, cosmic said:

Are the breakfast club able to spill the actual reason behind the Clement sacking now? Seeing as Mel Morris has gone.

"We can't reveal why, but let's just say he definitely had to go". Then something about treadmills.

I do remember a story about Mel buying a load of gym equipment at the players request and Clemente had it removed because he thought the players were too bulky.

I seem to remember other things as well, like having nap time in the middle of the day (as they would in Spain or other warm countries) and a story that Brad Johnson was the fittest player at the club when he signed and 3 months later he was unfit.

[therealhantsram]

5 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

I do remember a story about Mel buying a load of gym equipment at the players request and Clemente had it removed because he thought the players were too bulky.

I seem to remember other things as well, like having nap time in the middle of the day (as they would in Spain or other warm countries) and a story that Brad Johnson was the fittest player at the club when he signed and 3 months later he was unfit.

Fitness did seem to be a big thing at the time. How we would not be able to compete for a full 90 mins.

 

[Macintosh]

I can only conclude that on at least one occasion Keogh is possibly the reason McClaren was shown the door, because I'm still trying to figure out why he was dismissed on both occasions. Colin Gibson needs to expand on Keogh's influence rather than leaving it as it is.

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

I can only conclude that on at least one occasion Keogh is possibly the reason McClaren was shown the door, because I'm still trying to figure out why he was dismissed on both occasions. Colin Gibson needs to expand on Keogh's influence rather than leaving it as it is.

 

It'd be interesting to know.

I assume you mean the second time? 1st time was clearly the Newcastle thing, mixed with the team collapse (unless Keogh told Mel "it's all mcclaren's fault we got pumped by reading when we needed a draw on the last day)

[duncanjwitham]

3 minutes ago, Macintosh said:

I can only conclude that on at least one occasion Keogh is possibly the reason McClaren was shown the door, because I'm still trying to figure out why he was dismissed on both occasions. Colin Gibson needs to expand on Keogh's influence rather than leaving it as it is.

 

To me, a huge number of Morris's decisions seemed to be the kind of reactionary nonsense you hear shouted from the stands, or on a post-match phone-in on Radio Derby.  I'm talking about things like players just needing a kick up the backside (so get Pearson in), we never should have sold Shackell (so let's get him back), Chris Martin doesn't run around enough (so let's get rid of him), that kind of idiot-level analysis. 

The first McClaren sacking felt like the sort of "he won't commit his entire future to Derby, so let's sack him now" stuff that was being heard from those corners.  The second one always felt like someone (probably Sam Rush) talked Morris into appointing McClaren again, Morris was never happy about it (for the same reasons as sacking number 1, probably), and as soon as we had a slight dip in form he got rid so he could have who he had wanted as manager in the first place.

[Macintosh]

17 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

To me, a huge number of Morris's decisions seemed to be the kind of reactionary nonsense you hear shouted from the stands, or on a post-match phone-in on Radio Derby.  I'm talking about things like players just needing a kick up the backside (so get Pearson in), we never should have sold Shackell (so let's get him back), Chris Martin doesn't run around enough (so let's get rid of him), that kind of idiot-level analysis. 

The first McClaren sacking felt like the sort of "he won't commit his entire future to Derby, so let's sack him now" stuff that was being heard from those corners.  The second one always felt like someone (probably Sam Rush) talked Morris into appointing McClaren again, Morris was never happy about it (for the same reasons as sacking number 1, probably), and as soon as we had a slight dip in form he got rid so he could have who he had wanted as manager in the first place.

I'm going to take what Colin Gibson said regarding Keogh's influence as gospel. However, if you read Pride, the best book ever on the Rams, here is his interview with Paul Simpson, which I also judge as true:

 

"But as Simpson remembers it, they wouldn’t be given the chance. Derby’s hand had been forced and with the turning of the supporters, McClaren was sacked. He says, ‘The way it all ended was horrible really. Steve said when the dust was starting to settle, “There’s an opportunity and we could go to Newcastle” but I told him I didn’t want to go. He asked for my opinion and I said, “You have to turn it down. This is where we need to stay.” He thought about it for a while and said, “I’m going to turn it down, as long as we’re able to commit ourselves for the next three years to finish this job.” I was willing to sign another contact. 

‘I know for a fact that Steve turned Newcastle down. I said to Steve, “Look, I’m absolutely knackered. I want to go away with my wife for a couple of days, can I do it?” and he said, “Yeah, go and have some days in Spain.” So, he rang me on the Wednesday night and asked me when I was coming back, which was the next day. “Right, I think I’m getting the sack. I need you to come back.” He turned Newcastle down and then he got the sack.

‘We were left in a situation with nothing. Even when it got to the point that I was still employed, he said to me that Newcastle had come in for him again. When he got the job, he wanted me to come as his assistant and I said, “No. I’m not coming.” I told him I would only go if I got the sack at Derby. I wasn’t leaving Derby.’

Simpson wasn’t made to wait long before returning McClaren’s call.

‘I ended up ringing him one night and said, “Right, I think I’m going in to get the sack tomorrow morning.” And he said, “If they do that, come to Newcastle straight away.” It was all really disappointing though because we felt as though we were going in the right direction even though we had a massive disappointment at the end. We just felt as though we were still going to try and achieve what we wanted with Derby. We all tried everything to make that team a success and make it a successful season but whatever we did, it didn’t work, and we lost our jobs.’ "

[Curtains]

Wonder why Derby replaced Tim Ward !

http://www.derbycountymemories.co.uk/timothy-victor-ward-gentleman-manager-and-kingmaker-by-david-moore

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tim-wards-derby-county-spell-1839111.amp

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Curtains
Added link

[winktheram]

On 26/04/2022 at 09:28, Curtains said:

Problem with all this stuff which Radio Derby are dragging up (and one of the protagonists worked for Derby County)is that it’s raking up historic stories which can’t be changed. 
DCFC need to move on if that’s possible 

I love a good story

[cannable]

13 minutes ago, Crewton said:

We were on a run of 8 games without a win (though still in the playoff positions). Fans were starting to grumble, there were clearly issues with the motivation of the squad - how does form drop off a cliff like that? The manager lost the dressing room, for reasons that included off the field issues. Morris acted in order to try to save the season, much as he later did with Pearson, on the back of what certain players told him. 

He didn’t lose the dressing room though. 

Teams had worked us out. The Preston 0-0 is indicative of both points. We needed more energy in midfield so he effectively played Jeff up front. He tried to execute the managers plans but it went as well as expected.

Teams had worked out that if you press everybody except Warnock and Shackell then they would just pass it between each other because the former’s legs had gone and the latter was poor on the ball.

This is the season fans turned on Martin as well because of his scoreless run but if you actually watch his goals from that season, they were mostly screamers or self-created. We weren’t really creating much.

 

 

[winktheram]

33 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Wonder why Derby replaced Tim Ward !

http://www.derbycountymemories.co.uk/timothy-victor-ward-gentleman-manager-and-kingmaker-by-david-moore

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tim-wards-derby-county-spell-1839111.amp

 

Thanks Curtains hadn't seen that before. Great read.