The Administration Thread

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, RipleyRich said:

I`ve mentioned this before, and forgot about it TBH. If it`s guaranteed against the Stadium then it becomes MM issue or MSD take the Stadium.

I look at it this way. If MM has to gift the Stadium to save the Club, it costs him £20m to settle the loan.

If the Club is liquidated, he has to pay £20m, but still owns the Stadium and land etc

If MSD take the Stadium, he loses no additional money.

 

Now place in order what makes most financial sense to MM.

 

So it’s all about financial sense for MM and not the clubs predicament.

Oh dear we are in trouble 

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, 24Charlie said:

So let me get this straight. Posters are advocating that bidders are expected to buy the compost heap at the bottom of Mel's garden but in order to do so MM must give them his house for free?

It used to be OUR house.

[i-Ram]

5 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Maybe they were overconfident in their first interviews and gave people false hope .

Maybe they were. You can only deal in the here and now though Curtains. As they said yesterday, and its an unusual step to take for an Administrator - only done because of the unusual fan stakeholder position - attitudes have hardened, and an impasse has been reached. Something (or someone) has to give now, or soon.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Maybe they were. You can only deal in the here and now though Curtains. As they said yesterday, and its an unusual step to take for an Administrator - only done because of the unusual fan stakeholder position - attitudes have hardened, and an impasse has been reached. Something (or someone) has to give now, or soon.

You are right it’s all about the here and now but it’s difficult to see a way out right now .

Platitudes won’t help and if the EFL and HMRC and MSD and MM don’t budge it’s over 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Curtains
Added

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

On the Morris point, Hosking said a few weeks back he didn't have a clue how much money Morris has. That surprised me. In answer to your question, if I was trying to persuade Morris to take a further hit I would use two reasons for him to do that 1) He can afford to lose a few million  and 2) He is a fan and his fellow Rams fans are suffering big time. There is no legal basis that I know of for getting Morris to cough up more but even the moral argument has to be had with him.    

Was that before he 'talked' to Gibson?

 

I'm wondering about the Q statement talking about delaying things. How would that work?

So what is the process here. If Q named a PB and they'd offered £25m, and later down the line another bidder decided they'd offer £30m. Is it too late or does the process start again?

[jono]

10 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Mel Morris or liquidation.

It's like choosing whether to French kiss your gran or lick ya dogs arse.

Tough times.

They do both in Stoke already 

[Woodley Ram]

I think we have to be careful with the power of social media at the moment.

lots coming out, but unless it’s from an official source then it’s rumour and conjecture. 
 

journalists are paid to sell print, I doubt if any have the full picture and fill the blanks in with gossip.

I personally think we will have a new owner but the most important thing at the moment is to support the team

[i-Ram]

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

On the Morris point, Hosking said a few weeks back he didn't have a clue how much money Morris has. That surprised me. In answer to your question, if I was trying to persuade Morris to take a further hit I would use two reasons for him to do that 1) He can afford to lose a few million  and 2) He is a fan and his fellow Rams fans are suffering big time. There is no legal basis that I know of for getting Morris to cough up more but even the moral argument has to be had with him.    

Even if Hosking knew how much money Morris was worth, what makes you think he would communiate it? Morris's worth is not something for Hosking to share.

Points 1) and 2) I agree with you, but no doubt the moral dilemma has been discussed already. The only legal basis available perhaps is for MSD to say we have had enough of this, and appoint an administrative receiver to take control of the stadium. I doubt we are at that point yet though. Other than that, all Q (and us fans) can currently hope is that Morris caves, as I cant see any PB paying more than £35m for a club who almost certainly (at best) will be in L1 next season, with a -15 point starting position. I think the heat was being turned on Morris yesterday, but that is nothing more than speculation from my perspective. 

I havent got more to add, so going to leave this thread for a while until there is some new news from either Q, Morris or a PB of repute.

[Donnyram]

21 minutes ago, Big Trav said:

We’ll if you thought quantama were useless before this has thrown a bit F you to all derby fans. I remember being confident. Was told Mike Ashley was PB and the deal suited all creditors. What that must of meant is Ashley offered enough to avoid 15 point deduction but wanted the stadium for free. We’re in a stand-off here and the only person losing this is derby fans. Mel wants his 20 million so he can pay his personal MSD loan off in full. Ashley wants it at the cheapest price possible. The admins clearly want more money and aren’t really working in the best interests of the club or creditors. It’s a messy situation but we all know who is still calling the shots at the club. First name begins with M and second also begins with M. 

Mickey Mouse??

[Boycie]

10 hours ago, Ramos said:

Just go through the fire exit. Can usually jimmy it open. 

My mate videos all the films and sells em on, he’s saving to buy a football club with the proceeds.

[duncanjwitham]

15 minutes ago, Big Trav said:

Also to clear up a bit of confusion there are 2 loans from MSD. One is secured against the stadium but this is a personal loan directly between MM and MSD. The loan between DCFC and MSD is 20 million and secured against the training ground and other facilities. So MM wants to pay off his personal loan with the stadium sale. Derby need to pay off their loan too. It’s a messy situation. 

I asked you yesterday if you had any evidence of this whatsoever and got no response. So I'll ask again...

What you are claiming is counter to what every single news outlet has been saying for the last 2 years.  Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence etc etc.

[Archied]

Whole thing is a total and utter mess and there’s bugger all us fans can do about it, there really is little point in keep speculating and going over and over it , the game is at a point where rich men can take clubs and destroy them without so much as a single consequence, 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Archied

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Carnero said:

My understanding was that the bid(s) of £30m were including the stadium.

So if £20m is allocated to the stadium/MSD then that only leaves £10m to all other creditors including HMRC which is obviously well short.

The bidders point of view will be that the £30m should be allocated to the creditors and that the stadium should be thrown in for nothing, with somebody else (MM) paying off the MSD debt.

The admin/MM point of view is that the price including the stadium needs to be £50m, the price without the stadium can be £30m, but the buyers only value the club at £30m if it comes WITH the stadium.

Bridging the gap between £30m and £50m is the issue. One side, or both will need to move to bridge this gap otherwise we're stuck.

Very good summary I suspect - the bidders are not going higher as in millions so it’s up to MM to suck up the stadium costs, refinance the football club or watch everything melt away 

[Ramifications]

Don't forget Stevie Nicks is 73 years old now. Puts things in perspective. 

[atherstoneram]

34 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I think that sums it up, except I hope the current bids/ interest is rather more than the £30m that Binnies were offering. Even if Morris "gifts the stadium " there is still a £20 m loan secured against it so its not that much of a gift really unless we get rid of the MSD loan. Will Morris take a further hit and help pay off the £20 m loan? Morally he should definitely still help us out if he can.   

No i doubt he would take a further hit,if he was going to he would have done it by now. 

[Crewton]

41 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

1) How might you get Mike Ashley or any PB for that matter to pay say £50m for something they only value at say £35m.

Send for Joelinton's agent. 

[Crewton]

1 minute ago, atherstoneram said:

No i doubt he would take a further hit,if he was going to he would have done it by now. 

It took him a while to take the hit on Gibson's claim. Pure speculation, but maybe he could only do that once he'd freed up some liquidity? 

[Sparkle]

Correct me if I am wrong, back in January the Binnie brothers offered £30 million for the club not including the stadium, isn’t that the same as £50 million currently? - why was that offer rejected by the administrators?

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

1 hour ago, RipleyRich said:

Personally, I think people are over complicating this.

Reading between the lines of the statement from Quantuma, and the EFL reminder re Football Creditors, it appears very simple to me that as of last night there is not a bid on the table that meets the financial threshold to be put forward.

Whatever the reasons behind that are, we can only guess. I`ve said it before and still believe HMRC have a massive hand in this. When Football Creditors are now believed to be in the £4-6m bracket, why does that need to be reinforced when bids of c£30m have been mentioned?

It just suggests to me that there is insufficient allocation in those bids for Football Creditors?

You can add the Stadium issue on top of that, because it seems that no party currently sees the Club having a value of c£50m,  and a deal at c£30m without a stadium, no squad, in L1 with reduced income and a probability of starting next season on -15 points, makes no business sense whatsoever.

I do not like that statement one bit. Maybe I`m just a glass half empty type, but it reads like it`s preparing us for bad news.

100 per cent. Very worrying statement- reminding bidders about golden share and paying football creditors. As if the bids have been no where near, then threatening fans. There is maybe a few weeks until funding runs out. At the moment, liquidation is most likely scenario until something changes. Sad but true. If it comes to it, hopefully AFC Derby County can be set up not too low down the pyramid. Real disdain for how this club has been run. It’s criminal and helped along by the EFL, Gibson and others. 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

36 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

On the Morris point, Hosking said a few weeks back he didn't have a clue how much money Morris has. That surprised me. In answer to your question, if I was trying to persuade Morris to take a further hit I would use two reasons for him to do that 1) He can afford to lose a few million  and 2) He is a fan and his fellow Rams fans are suffering big time. There is no legal basis that I know of for getting Morris to cough up more but even the moral argument has to be had with him.    

Worryingly if he has a personal loan maybe he can’t afford to lose any more money. Is he even wealthy anymore aside from big houses? No one knows. Moral argument ... unconvinced that works so well with very wealthy people.