The Administration Thread

[Scott129]

Two very different ITK reports on the same page ?

[roboto]

3 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Listen up people..this is fact, Ive just had an email from a very reliable source...please read this is NO wind up.

 

Ok… here goes… the first part you’ll know and probably have read but the other comes from the Admin who spoke to my friend directly this morning. This is my written explanation of what he told me so my words not his…

 

So it seems that the administrators went to the meeting with the EFL yesterday with the expectation that they would leave the meeting being able to name the PB. To do this the EFL stated that DCFC had to fulfil their obligation to show proof of funds and see out the season. Q said we’ll do this via loans until the point at which we name the PB, after which they will put £X of million into the club to see it through to the end of the season – sound plan and one that gives everyone hope / optimism / security. The EFL then said ‘what about the Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims?’ Q answered that ‘legally’ that has no authority and even if it did then they were very confident that they would win the case based on the reality that it has no factual merit and their advice, plus they have followed instruction and rules. The EFL then took the stance that ‘well until this is resolved you cannot name the PB’ which may well be in breach of their own rule book and is certainly a subjective take on how to apply things. Essentially; they are able do what they want and definitely interpret things under the banner of doing so on behalf of their members (excluding Derby obvs). This has caused the latest stand-off and today’s repercussions re. Jagielka.

 

What the Admin / my pal’s take is, is that there is a definite agenda here to punish Derby as heavily as possible. The fact that they have earned the points they have and have bread hope, has in turn led to the feeling that the punishment is not strong enough and that this could set a dangerous precedent for other clubs to break the rules (should Derby achieve the impossible). Clubs are obviously bitter about that and in some ways, I think that’s fair enough and we’d likely feel the same. The issue now quickly shifts towards the fact that the EFL are using these claims as a delaying tactic to push Derby into more uncertainty and force them to either sell players very cheaply (which devalues the club) or persuade the new PB to pay off Middlesbrough and Wycombe (despite the fact there is little legal standing to their claims and the fact the EFL are largely responsible for the delayed timing of the second). My take on that is that whilst morally these clubs, others in the league and the EFL have reason to be pissed off with Derby – it’s a very legally problematic, ambiguous and negatively motivated way of enforcing them – it’s not based on the law nor is it objective / balanced. I’m sure that if there were more time available then Admin would fight it and win but that doesn’t appear to be an option given certain deadlines that are needed to be met.

 

What he also said was that the Admin have firm proof that the EFL are directly leaking stories to the press – in particular John Percy and specifically via Trevor Birch – for their own agenda.

 

Where this leaves things is anyone’s guess. There’s definitely a feel within the club that the players, staff and admin are all pulling for the same thing (as are the fans) but the EFL are hell bent on crushing them. Had we earned no points and been adrift then I’m sure none of this would have happened as relegation would have been the punishment, they felt appropriate. The key to unlocking the situation seems to be resolving the the claims by M and W. The fact that they are allowed to get away with this and have the backing of the EFL stinks to poo imo and may well be illegal, even if there is some moral merit surely this sets a crazy precedent for every other similar situation in future?

 

Why does none of this shock me?

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

 

We don't have proof that a new owner will come in.

The administrators role is to satisfy creditors and reduce debt not keep the club going until a new owner possibly takes over,if we don't get taken over and the admin have used money from player sales to fund the club until the end of the season that is money lost.

The reduction of debt would be a direct result of finalising the administration process - either from finding a buyer who will cover the agreed amounts, or from liquidation. It is not the job of the administrators to reduce that debt.

Money will be used to keep the club going until arriving at a point when it is not feasible to do so. This would be when there is no one willing to buy us. at the moment in time, we have 2 bidders willing to take over.

[JPRamFan]

5 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Listen up people..this is fact, Ive just had an email from a very reliable source...please read this is NO wind up.

 

Ok… here goes… the first part you’ll know and probably have read but the other comes from the Admin who spoke to my friend directly this morning. This is my written explanation of what he told me so my words not his…

 

So it seems that the administrators went to the meeting with the EFL yesterday with the expectation that they would leave the meeting being able to name the PB. To do this the EFL stated that DCFC had to fulfil their obligation to show proof of funds and see out the season. Q said we’ll do this via loans until the point at which we name the PB, after which they will put £X of million into the club to see it through to the end of the season – sound plan and one that gives everyone hope / optimism / security. The EFL then said ‘what about the Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims?’ Q answered that ‘legally’ that has no authority and even if it did then they were very confident that they would win the case based on the reality that it has no factual merit and their advice, plus they have followed instruction and rules. The EFL then took the stance that ‘well until this is resolved you cannot name the PB’ which may well be in breach of their own rule book and is certainly a subjective take on how to apply things. Essentially; they are able do what they want and definitely interpret things under the banner of doing so on behalf of their members (excluding Derby obvs). This has caused the latest stand-off and today’s repercussions re. Jagielka.

 

What the Admin / my pal’s take is, is that there is a definite agenda here to punish Derby as heavily as possible. The fact that they have earned the points they have and have bread hope, has in turn led to the feeling that the punishment is not strong enough and that this could set a dangerous precedent for other clubs to break the rules (should Derby achieve the impossible). Clubs are obviously bitter about that and in some ways, I think that’s fair enough and we’d likely feel the same. The issue now quickly shifts towards the fact that the EFL are using these claims as a delaying tactic to push Derby into more uncertainty and force them to either sell players very cheaply (which devalues the club) or persuade the new PB to pay off Middlesbrough and Wycombe (despite the fact there is little legal standing to their claims and the fact the EFL are largely responsible for the delayed timing of the second). My take on that is that whilst morally these clubs, others in the league and the EFL have reason to be pissed off with Derby – it’s a very legally problematic, ambiguous and negatively motivated way of enforcing them – it’s not based on the law nor is it objective / balanced. I’m sure that if there were more time available then Admin would fight it and win but that doesn’t appear to be an option given certain deadlines that are needed to be met.

 

What he also said was that the Admin have firm proof that the EFL are directly leaking stories to the press – in particular John Percy and specifically via Trevor Birch – for their own agenda.

 

Where this leaves things is anyone’s guess. There’s definitely a feel within the club that the players, staff and admin are all pulling for the same thing (as are the fans) but the EFL are hell bent on crushing them. Had we earned no points and been adrift then I’m sure none of this would have happened as relegation would have been the punishment, they felt appropriate. The key to unlocking the situation seems to be resolving the the claims by M and W. The fact that they are allowed to get away with this and have the backing of the EFL stinks to poo imo and may well be illegal, even if there is some moral merit surely this sets a crazy precedent for every other similar situation in future?

 

This is definitely the best explanation for today's events 

[PistoldPete]

7 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Listen up people..this is fact, Ive just had an email from a very reliable source...please read this is NO wind up.

 

Ok… here goes… the first part you’ll know and probably have read but the other comes from the Admin who spoke to my friend directly this morning. This is my written explanation of what he told me so my words not his…

 

So it seems that the administrators went to the meeting with the EFL yesterday with the expectation that they would leave the meeting being able to name the PB. To do this the EFL stated that DCFC had to fulfil their obligation to show proof of funds and see out the season. Q said we’ll do this via loans until the point at which we name the PB, after which they will put £X of million into the club to see it through to the end of the season – sound plan and one that gives everyone hope / optimism / security. The EFL then said ‘what about the Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims?’ Q answered that ‘legally’ that has no authority and even if it did then they were very confident that they would win the case based on the reality that it has no factual merit and their advice, plus they have followed instruction and rules. The EFL then took the stance that ‘well until this is resolved you cannot name the PB’ which may well be in breach of their own rule book and is certainly a subjective take on how to apply things. Essentially; they are able do what they want and definitely interpret things under the banner of doing so on behalf of their members (excluding Derby obvs). This has caused the latest stand-off and today’s repercussions re. Jagielka.

 

What the Admin / my pal’s take is, is that there is a definite agenda here to punish Derby as heavily as possible. The fact that they have earned the points they have and have bread hope, has in turn led to the feeling that the punishment is not strong enough and that this could set a dangerous precedent for other clubs to break the rules (should Derby achieve the impossible). Clubs are obviously bitter about that and in some ways, I think that’s fair enough and we’d likely feel the same. The issue now quickly shifts towards the fact that the EFL are using these claims as a delaying tactic to push Derby into more uncertainty and force them to either sell players very cheaply (which devalues the club) or persuade the new PB to pay off Middlesbrough and Wycombe (despite the fact there is little legal standing to their claims and the fact the EFL are largely responsible for the delayed timing of the second). My take on that is that whilst morally these clubs, others in the league and the EFL have reason to be pissed off with Derby – it’s a very legally problematic, ambiguous and negatively motivated way of enforcing them – it’s not based on the law nor is it objective / balanced. I’m sure that if there were more time available then Admin would fight it and win but that doesn’t appear to be an option given certain deadlines that are needed to be met.

 

What he also said was that the Admin have firm proof that the EFL are directly leaking stories to the press – in particular John Percy and specifically via Trevor Birch – for their own agenda.

 

Where this leaves things is anyone’s guess. There’s definitely a feel within the club that the players, staff and admin are all pulling for the same thing (as are the fans) but the EFL are hell bent on crushing them. Had we earned no points and been adrift then I’m sure none of this would have happened as relegation would have been the punishment, they felt appropriate. The key to unlocking the situation seems to be resolving the the claims by M and W. The fact that they are allowed to get away with this and have the backing of the EFL stinks to poo imo and may well be illegal, even if there is some moral merit surely this sets a crazy precedent for every other similar situation in future?

 

The fact that Efl has selectively been leaking stuff to the media has been very obvious from the start. 
 

all the stuff about Efl having had its own independent valuation if the stadium and so on. 
 

total spin and much of it turned out to be totally false .

[Eatonram]

9 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Listen up people..this is fact, Ive just had an email from a very reliable source...please read this is NO wind up.

 

Ok… here goes… the first part you’ll know and probably have read but the other comes from the Admin who spoke to my friend directly this morning. This is my written explanation of what he told me so my words not his…

 

So it seems that the administrators went to the meeting with the EFL yesterday with the expectation that they would leave the meeting being able to name the PB. To do this the EFL stated that DCFC had to fulfil their obligation to show proof of funds and see out the season. Q said we’ll do this via loans until the point at which we name the PB, after which they will put £X of million into the club to see it through to the end of the season – sound plan and one that gives everyone hope / optimism / security. The EFL then said ‘what about the Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims?’ Q answered that ‘legally’ that has no authority and even if it did then they were very confident that they would win the case based on the reality that it has no factual merit and their advice, plus they have followed instruction and rules. The EFL then took the stance that ‘well until this is resolved you cannot name the PB’ which may well be in breach of their own rule book and is certainly a subjective take on how to apply things. Essentially; they are able do what they want and definitely interpret things under the banner of doing so on behalf of their members (excluding Derby obvs). This has caused the latest stand-off and today’s repercussions re. Jagielka.

 

What the Admin / my pal’s take is, is that there is a definite agenda here to punish Derby as heavily as possible. The fact that they have earned the points they have and have bread hope, has in turn led to the feeling that the punishment is not strong enough and that this could set a dangerous precedent for other clubs to break the rules (should Derby achieve the impossible). Clubs are obviously bitter about that and in some ways, I think that’s fair enough and we’d likely feel the same. The issue now quickly shifts towards the fact that the EFL are using these claims as a delaying tactic to push Derby into more uncertainty and force them to either sell players very cheaply (which devalues the club) or persuade the new PB to pay off Middlesbrough and Wycombe (despite the fact there is little legal standing to their claims and the fact the EFL are largely responsible for the delayed timing of the second). My take on that is that whilst morally these clubs, others in the league and the EFL have reason to be pissed off with Derby – it’s a very legally problematic, ambiguous and negatively motivated way of enforcing them – it’s not based on the law nor is it objective / balanced. I’m sure that if there were more time available then Admin would fight it and win but that doesn’t appear to be an option given certain deadlines that are needed to be met.

 

What he also said was that the Admin have firm proof that the EFL are directly leaking stories to the press – in particular John Percy and specifically via Trevor Birch – for their own agenda.

 

Where this leaves things is anyone’s guess. There’s definitely a feel within the club that the players, staff and admin are all pulling for the same thing (as are the fans) but the EFL are hell bent on crushing them. Had we earned no points and been adrift then I’m sure none of this would have happened as relegation would have been the punishment, they felt appropriate. The key to unlocking the situation seems to be resolving the the claims by M and W. The fact that they are allowed to get away with this and have the backing of the EFL stinks to poo imo and may well be illegal, even if there is some moral merit surely this sets a crazy precedent for every other similar situation in future?

 

Any chance of a reputable journalist asking the EFL if this is true? Or all the EFL just hide behind a wall of silence....probably.

[Miggins]

5 hours ago, TheSlate said:

Sold Rick Parry some paint on FB marketplace this morning and he said that they had a late night brainstorming session to curtail any positive progress. Said Steve Gibson sent them a pizza. 

Finally! Some credible information!

[kevinhectoring]

8 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

MSD can't tell the administrators how to act, there is nothing to stop them putting up the money to keep the club going 

 

in theory you’re spot on. But not how it usually works in practice 

You’re also right that MSD could provide the funding we need. Problem is they will have been spooked by Gibson’s antics. 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, JPRamFan said:

This is definitely the best explanation for today's events 

But not necessarily true.

The stuff with Bo and Wy, Admin say it's not a hold up. Surely they're not so half-arsed that they couldn't check that with the EFL before telling us and/or telling bidders?

[Miggins]

Jags has gone! I can't believe it. Radio Derby News at 4pm. Possibly gone to Stoke?

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

The fact that Efl has selectively been leaking stuff to the media has been very obvious from the start. 
 

all the stuff about Efl having had its own independent valuation if the stadium and so on. 
 

total spin and much of it turned out to be totally false .

Which implies it was made up by the media to poo stir when they knew little more than the rest of us.

[Ram-Alf]

Just now, Eatonram said:

Any chance of a reputable journalist asking the EFL if this is true? Or all the EFL just hide behind a wall of silence....probably.

It's true, I wont post bilg, The person I got this from is from my loins, He works in the Media, His contact works for Sky.

[Ellafella]

12 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Listen up people..this is fact, Ive just had an email from a very reliable source...please read this is NO wind up.

 

Ok… here goes… the first part you’ll know and probably have read but the other comes from the Admin who spoke to my friend directly this morning. This is my written explanation of what he told me so my words not his…

 

So it seems that the administrators went to the meeting with the EFL yesterday with the expectation that they would leave the meeting being able to name the PB. To do this the EFL stated that DCFC had to fulfil their obligation to show proof of funds and see out the season. Q said we’ll do this via loans until the point at which we name the PB, after which they will put £X of million into the club to see it through to the end of the season – sound plan and one that gives everyone hope / optimism / security. The EFL then said ‘what about the Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims?’ Q answered that ‘legally’ that has no authority and even if it did then they were very confident that they would win the case based on the reality that it has no factual merit and their advice, plus they have followed instruction and rules. The EFL then took the stance that ‘well until this is resolved you cannot name the PB’ which may well be in breach of their own rule book and is certainly a subjective take on how to apply things. Essentially; they are able do what they want and definitely interpret things under the banner of doing so on behalf of their members (excluding Derby obvs). This has caused the latest stand-off and today’s repercussions re. Jagielka.

 

What the Admin / my pal’s take is, is that there is a definite agenda here to punish Derby as heavily as possible. The fact that they have earned the points they have and have bread hope, has in turn led to the feeling that the punishment is not strong enough and that this could set a dangerous precedent for other clubs to break the rules (should Derby achieve the impossible). Clubs are obviously bitter about that and in some ways, I think that’s fair enough and we’d likely feel the same. The issue now quickly shifts towards the fact that the EFL are using these claims as a delaying tactic to push Derby into more uncertainty and force them to either sell players very cheaply (which devalues the club) or persuade the new PB to pay off Middlesbrough and Wycombe (despite the fact there is little legal standing to their claims and the fact the EFL are largely responsible for the delayed timing of the second). My take on that is that whilst morally these clubs, others in the league and the EFL have reason to be pissed off with Derby – it’s a very legally problematic, ambiguous and negatively motivated way of enforcing them – it’s not based on the law nor is it objective / balanced. I’m sure that if there were more time available then Admin would fight it and win but that doesn’t appear to be an option given certain deadlines that are needed to be met.

 

What he also said was that the Admin have firm proof that the EFL are directly leaking stories to the press – in particular John Percy and specifically via Trevor Birch – for their own agenda.

 

Where this leaves things is anyone’s guess. There’s definitely a feel within the club that the players, staff and admin are all pulling for the same thing (as are the fans) but the EFL are hell bent on crushing them. Had we earned no points and been adrift then I’m sure none of this would have happened as relegation would have been the punishment, they felt appropriate. The key to unlocking the situation seems to be resolving the the claims by M and W. The fact that they are allowed to get away with this and have the backing of the EFL stinks to poo imo and may well be illegal, even if there is some moral merit surely this sets a crazy precedent for every other similar situation in future?

 

Fits my understanding entirely. Piece together the bits and then work out the "motivations" of the EFL and they want to make DCFC suffer more - not achieve the "great escape" and their "members" are backing that. 

[kevinhectoring]

15 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Listen up people..this is fact, Ive just had an email from a very reliable source...please read this is NO wind up.

 

Ok… here goes… the first part you’ll know and probably have read but the other comes from the Admin who spoke to my friend directly this morning. This is my written explanation of what he told me so my words not his…

 

So it seems that the administrators went to the meeting with the EFL yesterday with the expectation that they would leave the meeting being able to name the PB. To do this the EFL stated that DCFC had to fulfil their obligation to show proof of funds and see out the season. Q said we’ll do this via loans until the point at which we name the PB, after which they will put £X of million into the club to see it through to the end of the season – sound plan and one that gives everyone hope / optimism / security. The EFL then said ‘what about the Middlesbrough and Wycombe claims?’ Q answered that ‘legally’ that has no authority and even if it did then they were very confident that they would win the case based on the reality that it has no factual merit and their advice, plus they have followed instruction and rules. The EFL then took the stance that ‘well until this is resolved you cannot name the PB’ which may well be in breach of their own rule book and is certainly a subjective take on how to apply things. Essentially; they are able do what they want and definitely interpret things under the banner of doing so on behalf of their members (excluding Derby obvs). This has caused the latest stand-off and today’s repercussions re. Jagielka.

 

What the Admin / my pal’s take is, is that there is a definite agenda here to punish Derby as heavily as possible. The fact that they have earned the points they have and have bread hope, has in turn led to the feeling that the punishment is not strong enough and that this could set a dangerous precedent for other clubs to break the rules (should Derby achieve the impossible). Clubs are obviously bitter about that and in some ways, I think that’s fair enough and we’d likely feel the same. The issue now quickly shifts towards the fact that the EFL are using these claims as a delaying tactic to push Derby into more uncertainty and force them to either sell players very cheaply (which devalues the club) or persuade the new PB to pay off Middlesbrough and Wycombe (despite the fact there is little legal standing to their claims and the fact the EFL are largely responsible for the delayed timing of the second). My take on that is that whilst morally these clubs, others in the league and the EFL have reason to be pissed off with Derby – it’s a very legally problematic, ambiguous and negatively motivated way of enforcing them – it’s not based on the law nor is it objective / balanced. I’m sure that if there were more time available then Admin would fight it and win but that doesn’t appear to be an option given certain deadlines that are needed to be met.

 

What he also said was that the Admin have firm proof that the EFL are directly leaking stories to the press – in particular John Percy and specifically via Trevor Birch – for their own agenda.

 

Where this leaves things is anyone’s guess. There’s definitely a feel within the club that the players, staff and admin are all pulling for the same thing (as are the fans) but the EFL are hell bent on crushing them. Had we earned no points and been adrift then I’m sure none of this would have happened as relegation would have been the punishment, they felt appropriate. The key to unlocking the situation seems to be resolving the the claims by M and W. The fact that they are allowed to get away with this and have the backing of the EFL stinks to poo imo and may well be illegal, even if there is some moral merit surely this sets a crazy precedent for every other similar situation in future?

 

All highly credible. Unfortunately it indicates Q are out of their depth. Why on earth would they think things will be solved by telling EFl “don’t worry, there’s nothing in the 2 claims” 

[Sheff Ram]

36 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

*If*, for example, HMRC are saying we will only take 100% and the bidders are saying we'll only pay 25%, then I don't see what Quantuma can actually do.  The same with 'Boro and Wycombe, if there's a gaping chasm between what those clubs would agree to and what potential bidders are willing to cover, then again, I don't see what they can possibly do.  They can't force those parties to radically alter their demands. 

I think you have to assume that Quantuma are acting in good faith, because there really isn't that much incentive for them to not.  They risk losing their license to practice if they are genuinely being dodgy, and even beyond that, the last thing they want is a reputation for screwing things up.  If you're after an administrator, particularly as a another football club, would you want the ones that liquidated Derby County?

I think this is one of the most sensible and level-headed replies I've seen to the current mess. Good post @duncanjwitham

[dabber]

Wasn't it the situation that the "case" between Derby and Boro and Wycombe has to be settled via a League Arbitration Panel. Why has that not been arranged / held yet as clearly there is considerable urgency to getting this resolved. Who is responsible for arranging this LAP meeting?

[richinspain]

5 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

It's true, I wont post bilg, The person I got this from is from my loins, He works in the Media, His contact works for Sky.

I don't doubt for a second that what you're saying is true, but why the hell aren't Sky running the story.

[Ram-Alf]

1 minute ago, kevinhectoring said:

All highly credible. Unfortunately it indicates Q are out of their depth. Why on earth would they think things will be solved by telling EFl “don’t worry, there’s nothing in the 2 claims” 

Did you read the post, There aint nothing in their claims...The EFL are blocking this to keep other clubs happy, Just like they did with the points, Accept or else.

It's of no concern to me what you believe, Make up your own theory, I know what is what and who was told what.

[Sparkle]

We actually need those real investigation journalists to be looking into this whole sordid affair which stinks to high heaven - it shouldn’t be difficult because there are more leaks and back slapping going on than can be imagined - why don’t sky actually start saying something about the EFL or even threaten them about future TV deals with what’s happening.

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, richinspain said:

I don't doubt for a second that what you're saying is true, but why the hell aren't Sky running the story.

Ring Sky and ask ?‍♂️