Stupid goal kicks

[Anag Ram]

What concerns me more than the short goal kicks is Roos’ inability to kick the ball anywhere near our players when he has the whole pitch to look at.

He sometimes kicks it twenty yards from the nearest Derby player. If he closed his eyes and kicked he might have a 50:50 chance.

It just puts us under pressure when an opposition defender has time and room to find a player.

I think we pass back to him too often in general. If he’s just going to hoof it why’s that any different to the defender hoofing it?

[Gone]

It just doesn’t work does it, if it’s about keeping position then it’s dead in the water as we only end up hoofing it up the pitch anyway. I’ve not seen evidence once of us stretching the opposition using this tactic. All this with Roos and Davies although both having some great qualities, controlling a and passing a football are not one of them. 
it’s a modern tactic a put in the football myth category, along with playing a false number 9 (still haven’t got a clue what that means) these things only work when you have players at the absolute top of the game. 

[Angry Ram]

Well it certainly creates goal scoring opportunities..

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

12 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

It just doesn’t work does it, if it’s about keeping position then it’s dead in the water as we only end up hoofing it up the pitch anyway. I’ve not seen evidence once of us stretching the opposition using this tactic. All this with Roos and Davies although both having some great qualities, controlling a and passing a football are not one of them. 
it’s a modern tactic a put in the football myth category, along with playing a false number 9 (still haven’t got a clue what that means) these things only work when you have players at the absolute top of the game. 

I think one of the main ideas is retention of the ball. Lumping it up field means the opposition probably will ge the ball or it will be 50/50. Retention is seen as vital. Often there are fewer risky balls played for this reason.

[Gone]

33 minutes ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

I think one of the main ideas is retention of the ball. Lumping it up field means the opposition probably will ge the ball or it will be 50/50. Retention is seen as vital. Often there are fewer risky balls played for this reason.

We never retain the ball though, we panic put ourselves under pressure then either Jagelka, Davies or Roos lumps it up field anyway. Why not just cut out the panic bit and lump it upfield. Train our players to win the ball and the second ball from a long goal kick, it’s far less risky than what we are doing

[Ramos]

9 hours ago, Seaside Ram said:

While we are at it , why don’t teams put players on posts at corners anymore  ? I saw at least 3 goals in the prem yesterday that would’ve been prevented ! 

It’s not cool anymore. 

[Ram-Alf]

11 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

At least when questioned about it on Radio Derby post-match, when the ignorant interviewer blamed the players, Rooney corrected him and said it was all on him (Rooney) and that he was ordering the players to do this, believing that although players will sometimes make mistakes trying to implement the instructions, we benefit in the long run from this. I would say Rooney is an utter fool and it's a total nonsense, but sadly there was zero indication he was going to stop making the players play in such an idiotic fashion.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it a donkey

Rooneys response to the question is as stupid as my horse turning into a donkey, It just doesn't make sense, Having 2 centre backs plus our keeper playing a short ball on the 6 yard line when there are 2 attackers on the 18 yard line waiting to pounce.

But hey what do I know, Not even the new offside rule...which is an Ass!

[Ram-Alf]

2 hours ago, TexasRam said:

It just doesn’t work does it, if it’s about keeping position then it’s dead in the water as we only end up hoofing it up the pitch anyway. I’ve not seen evidence once of us stretching the opposition using this tactic. All this with Roos and Davies although both having some great qualities, controlling a and passing a football are not one of them. 
it’s a modern tactic a put in the football myth category, along with playing a false number 9 (still haven’t got a clue what that means) these things only work when you have players at the absolute top of the game. 

I thought everyone knew what a false number 9 was...here you go

 

 

[Eatonram]

Until Wayne decides to stop it then it’s ok with me. He is our manager. 

[sage]

Whenever your keeper takes an 8 yard touch when he means to take a 2 yard one, you are in trouble 

[sage]

11 hours ago, TomSaint said:

But the midfield don’t move ? Literally 2 forwards sit on edge of box and press as soon as Davies kicks it. I don’t mind passing out from the back if it’s done correctly. Time and a place.  Not when of the most pressing teams is literally on edge of ya box ? and they just hoof it anyway ?‍♂️Just seems strange. I’ve not seen any advantage from it ? Only seen it decimate Roos confidence when he concedes daft goals ?

If the forwards don't press you can play out via the CBs. 

If the forwards press and the midfield don't, the GK can pass to our midfield. 

If the forwards and midfield press then you have to go long to our CF or an advanced full back. 

I'm not saying I agree with doing it to the extent we are but that is the theory. What I would say is that having CKR up front instead of Baldock helps choose option 3 when there is any doubt in your mind. 

 

[DazzaRam]

I dont mind it. Roos touch was what went wrong. Next goal kick was a traditional one with everybody bunched together and ended with a Bournemouth attack and shot. Its the way we play. Roos touch was the problem not the idea. 

[Mckram]

I don’t mind the idea of it if we had better ball playing defenders but we just don’t have the players.

I also wouldn’t mind it if we were losing/drawing, but when you’re 1-0 up against one of the best sides in the division then I’m more in favour of just getting the ball in their half and playing further up the pitch…but we would have probably lost 4-1 if we tried that and that’s why I’m not a football manager!

[ilkleyram]

34 minutes ago, DazzaRam said:

I dont mind it. Roos touch was what went wrong. Next goal kick was a traditional one with everybody bunched together and ended with a Bournemouth attack and shot. Its the way we play. Roos touch was the problem not the idea. 

I agree.  The idea isn't a stupid one as the OP suggests - a stupid idea would be one undertaken without a reason and our manager has explained, again, why he wants the players to do it. 

It doesn't work when they make a mistake in the execution of the plan and, as players of second division quality, they are more likely to make a mistake periodically than, say, international players. At least it's exciting.

Having said that, as Bobby Davison outlined on Radio Derby, there are other ways of achieving the same thing - essentially by kicking it over the back four, making them turn, go backwards and creating space between them and their midfield.  I thought I saw Roos do that yesterday too, and in other matches, as well as ping it out to Ebosele and Buchanan. 

Sometimes what Kelle does works just fine; sometimes it doesn't. But he's a human being playing for a mid table second division team.  He'll make mistakes. And he'll make good saves too.

[Beetle]

If anyone went to the open training session and watched the three keepers doing their pass and control exercise it is obvious to see they are not up to it.

I see why tactically we woud want to, paticularly with the squad we have, but the keepers are not good enough. This is being proven in most of the matches we play.

The best outlet we have for the keeper is when Forsyth pushes up high.

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

3 hours ago, TexasRam said:

We never retain the ball though, we panic put ourselves under pressure then either Jagelka, Davies or Roos lumps it up field anyway. Why not just cut out the panic bit and lump it upfield. Train our players to win the ball and the second ball from a long goal kick, it’s far less risky than what we are doing

I agree sort of. But I think short passes from the back can work well sometimes- remember Keogh often started attacks from the back. But what Derby did was suicidal expecting the keeper to control it accurately and quickly directly in front of his goal. Coaches and management these days don’t want to instruct teams to lump it forward too often as there is a high risk possession of the ball will be lost.  Retaining possession is often paramount to what a team is trying to do. Roos did some good longer kicks towards the wing. 

[angieram]

14 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

I agree.  The idea isn't a stupid one as the OP suggests - a stupid idea would be one undertaken without a reason and our manager has explained, again, why he wants the players to do it. 

It doesn't work when they make a mistake in the execution of the plan and, as players of second division quality, they are more likely to make a mistake periodically than, say, international players. At least it's exciting.

Having said that, as Bobby Davison outlined on Radio Derby, there are other ways of achieving the same thing - essentially by kicking it over the back four, making them turn, go backwards and creating space between them and their midfield.  I thought I saw Roos do that yesterday too, and in other matches, as well as ping it out to Ebosele and Buchanan. 

Sometimes what Kelle does works just fine; sometimes it doesn't. But he's a human being playing for a mid table second division team.  He'll make mistakes. And he'll make good saves too.

Exactly.

Where are the four equivalent threads examining why Jason Knight failed to shoot first time when he had a great chance laid on a plate for him? Oh, but he played well the rest of the game and scored a goal too. (So did Kelle Roos and he made other decent stops.)

It really bugs me, this micro-analysis of every aspect of Roos' game. Allsop was getting it after only three games too. 

Obsession isn't healthy.

[IslandExile]

4 hours ago, TheresOnlyWanChope said:

I think one of the main ideas is retention of the ball.

It works......a couple of minutes later and we have the ball in and around the centre circle.

[angieram]

2 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

It works......a couple of minutes later and we have the ball in and around the centre circle.

You're not helping.

[loweman2]

so now that Wayne has come out publicly and said that it is something that is part of the game plan surely all future managers will play to that, pushing forwards further forward when we have a goal kick, surely this would now be the time to actually punt it up to the half way line in the knowledge that the opposition is playing a very high line !! maybe using the speed of Ebosele to catch them flat footed on the break ?