Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Foreveram]

12 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's not an answer though....why did we have to sell our ground?

Is this the right room for an argument.

[RedSox]

4 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Is this the right room for an argument.

Sorry. If you want an argument, you have to pay. I told you before!

[Curtains]

efl.com
EFL House, 10 – 12 West Cliff, Preston, Lancashire, PR1 8HU Tel: 01772 325800 Email: enquiries@efl.com

 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

12 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Is this the right room for an argument.

Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half an hour ?

[Foreveram]

1 minute ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half an hour ?

I’ve told you once

[PistoldPete]

28 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's not an answer though....why did we have to sell our ground?

Because we are in the Championship and don't get proper money from Sky. 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

ELF.com

or write to Mr elf @thenorthpole.

saying the EFL have been naughty and don’t deserve presents.

[jono]

38 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

But it never can be a one off punishment. Bceause if / when we are relegated , how do we know what further financial woes wiil hit us and then EFL come after you again. Its a vicious circle. What is the point of punishing clubs for getting into a financial mess.. the punishment only causes more financial mess.    

Indeed but what I mean is .. there is no legacy .. You start in league one with a clean slate .. no sudden surprises booby traps related to past actions .. “well in your 2019 accounts you didn’t do this or that and so you’ve got a 3 point smack.” 

[jono]

26 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

Is this the right room for an argument.

And is it for the full half hour ?

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, jono said:

Indeed but what I mean is .. there is no legacy .. You start in league one with a clean slate .. no sudden surprises booby traps related to past actions .. “well in your 2019 accounts you didn’t do this or that and so you’ve got a 3 point smack.” 

Ther was a spelling mistake in the notes to your accounts. Go to jail and do not pass Go , do not colect £200. EFL Error not in your favour.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

Shame we haven't got a quote from Curtis and Phil. They'd fit right in! 

To You

To Me...and that's another fine mess you've gotten me into.

[Oldben]

On 07/11/2021 at 14:42, RoyMac5 said:

He told you that right? 

Absolutely new owners will be looking to spend Championship money on a League 1 club.

?

 

4 hours ago, FindernRam said:

This statement (if true and by Kirchner) is a terrible thing to put in the public domain. Basically undermining the negotiation position of the administrators by saying the club will survive even if you dock us the lot! Taking away the threat of liquidation and what that would do to the EFL.

My view is that Kirchner is saying that even if the club is relegated, he is willing to invest in the club.

Maguire has stated that it is probably very difficult for Derby to find a new owner if they are guaranteed relegation, as the club will be worth less if its a league one club instead of in the championship.

From everything I have read Kirchner appears to be an astute businessman who sees that its possible to turn Derby around and turn it into a great team again.

Its my believe that if your rich enough to buy Derby even if they are relegated, your not looking to see them stay in League one but will want to promote them as soon as possible and under those circumstances, you would be willing to pay whatever it takes to guarantee promotion from League One to the Championship.

I had concerns that if Derby were relegated know one would be interested in buying the club.

League one no longer has a salary cap, but the issue is which players from the Championship would be willing to transfer to a relegated club and so you would need to pay good money to buy the best possible players from league one.

I think Derby if they are owned by a wealthy owner could out bid the majority of other teams in League one, and an entire rebuild would be required to make them strong enough to be promoted in one season.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Oldben

[kevinhectoring]

38 minutes ago, jono said:

Indeed but what I mean is .. there is no legacy .. You start in league one with a clean slate .. no sudden surprises booby traps related to past actions .. “well in your 2019 accounts you didn’t do this or that and so you’ve got a 3 point smack.” 

Id guess it means our inbound activity in the jan window is mostly incoming 6 month loans. Menghi mentioned already 

[vonwright]

39 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's not an answer though....why did we have to sell our ground?

...and still ended up £60m of debt, only £20m of which was supposedly due to COVID (£20m being higher than the average annual matchday income of all championship clubs in 2018/19, the last season for which most figures are available, and more than twice the matchday income Forest declared that year when they had roughly the same crowds as us).

I think we have to be honest about just how much of a financial basket case we became under Mel. Are the EFL really singling us out for particular attention, or did we quite a lot to single ourselves out? No other club used our controversial amortisation policy, and the EFL were perfectly within their rights to appeal the original decision. Under normal circumstances nine points - if it represents a final settlement of P and S breaches - wouldn't seem so bad. We don't know what the accounts for recent years are going to show but there's a very real chance they are going to look pretty awful, given that the effect of the amortisation policy was to back-end transfer losses, and we've lost a lot on buying expensive but worthless players. 

We were also the only club to go into administration, and that's an automatic 12pts. We have now adjourned the appeal - presumably the administrators realised the chances of success were limited, and not worth delaying settlement of other issues. In my view that's sensible as there wasn't much chance we were going to win a force majeure case when we had been put into administration by an owner who had set the club up to make enormous losses, had previously shown a willingness to sustain these losses, but who had then decided he couldn't or wouldn't sustain further losses (not least because we already had huge debts). 

We need clarity, we need a sale to a more pragmatic and business-oriented owner, we need stability. I would have loved us to have stayed up against the odds but honestly, they are the real priorities this season. 

 

 

[RoyMac5]

 

[PistoldPete]

10 minutes ago, vonwright said:

...and still ended up £60m of debt, only £20m of which was supposedly due to COVID (£20m being higher than the average annual matchday income of all championship clubs in 2018/19, the last season for which most figures are available, and more than twice the matchday income Forest declared that year when they had roughly the same crowds as us).

I think we have to be honest about just how much of a financial basket case we became under Mel. Are the EFL really singling us out for particular attention, or did we quite a lot to single ourselves out? No other club used our controversial amortisation policy, and the EFL were perfectly within their rights to appeal the original decision. Under normal circumstances nine points - if it represents a final settlement of P and S breaches - wouldn't seem so bad. We don't know what the accounts for recent years are going to show but there's a very real chance they are going to look pretty awful, given that the effect of the amortisation policy was to back-end transfer losses, and we've lost a lot on buying expensive but worthless players. 

We were also the only club to go into administration, and that's an automatic 12pts. We have now adjourned the appeal - presumably the administrators realised the chances of success were limited, and not worth delaying settlement of other issues. In my view that's sensible as there wasn't much chance we were going to win a force majeure case when we had been put into administration by an owner who had set the club up to make enormous losses, had previously shown a willingness to sustain these losses, but who had then decided he couldn't or wouldn't sustain further losses (not least because we already had huge debts). 

We need clarity, we need a sale to a more pragmatic and business-oriented owner, we need stability. I would have loved us to have stayed up against the odds but honestly, they are the real priorities this season. 

 

 

It's not true that only £20 million of debt is due to COVID. We lost £20 million in revenue up to summer 2021 , and not all of that was lost gate receipts , but also lost Corporate hospitality , sponsorship , events , lost income from bars registrants etc.

 

Lost opportunity to find  a buyer for the club  and no buyers for any our players.

 

And still the losses from COVID are ongoing, as more vulnerable fans stay away.    

 

And you are speculating that we are giving up on the appeal and the reasons  for it if we do.

 

But you are right about one thing (probably only one thing to be fair). The priority is to seal the sale of the club .  

 

 

 

[FlyBritishMidland]

28 minutes ago, vonwright said:

...and still ended up £60m of debt, only £20m of which was supposedly due to COVID (£20m being higher than the average annual matchday income of all championship clubs in 2018/19, the last season for which most figures are available, and more than twice the matchday income Forest declared that year when they had roughly the same crowds as us).

I think we have to be honest about just how much of a financial basket case we became under Mel. Are the EFL really singling us out for particular attention, or did we quite a lot to single ourselves out? No other club used our controversial amortisation policy, and the EFL were perfectly within their rights to appeal the original decision. Under normal circumstances nine points - if it represents a final settlement of P and S breaches - wouldn't seem so bad. We don't know what the accounts for recent years are going to show but there's a very real chance they are going to look pretty awful, given that the effect of the amortisation policy was to back-end transfer losses, and we've lost a lot on buying expensive but worthless players. 

We were also the only club to go into administration, and that's an automatic 12pts. We have now adjourned the appeal - presumably the administrators realised the chances of success were limited, and not worth delaying settlement of other issues. In my view that's sensible as there wasn't much chance we were going to win a force majeure case when we had been put into administration by an owner who had set the club up to make enormous losses, had previously shown a willingness to sustain these losses, but who had then decided he couldn't or wouldn't sustain further losses (not least because we already had huge debts). 

We need clarity, we need a sale to a more pragmatic and business-oriented owner, we need stability. I would have loved us to have stayed up against the odds but honestly, they are the real priorities this season. 

 

 

An excellent post, particularly the bit in bold.  Like it or not, we (or Mel) put ourselves in this position.  If we were whiter than white it wouldn’t have come to this.

[Tamworthram]

54 minutes ago, Oldben said:

 

My view is that Kirchner is saying that even if the club is relegated, he is willing to invest in the club.

Maguire has stated that it is probably very difficult for Derby to find a new owner if they are guaranteed relegation, as the club will be worth less if its a league one club instead of in the championship.

From everything I have read Kirchner appears to be an astute businessman who sees that its possible to turn Derby around and turn it into a great team again.

Its my believe that if your rich enough to buy Derby even if they are relegated, your not looking to see them stay in League one but will want to promote them as soon as possible and under those circumstances, you would be willing to pay whatever it takes to guarantee promotion from League One to the Championship.

I had concerns that if Derby were relegated know one would be interested in buying the club.

League one no longer has a salary cap, but the issue is which players from the Championship would be willing to transfer to a relegated club and so you would need to pay good money to buy the best possible players from league one.

I think Derby if they are owned by a wealthy owner could out bid the majority of other teams in League one, and an entire rebuild would be required to make them strong enough to be promoted in one season.

Well that’s clearly nonsense from Maguire unless you’re misquoting him.

A 21 point deduction would make avoiding relegation extremely difficult but going down wouldn’t be guaranteed. Also, surely no club is worthless. It’s just the realistic price for league 1 team will be considerably less than a championship club.

[Macintosh]

On 11/11/2021 at 09:24, Oldben said:

 

 

Of most importance is to finish this season as a good, confident and winning team with building blocks in place. Maybe we go down five points adrift, but it sets us up for the climb back. Clubs that struggle to return quickly are the ones rebuilding, especially in confidence. This next six months defines us for the next five seasons.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Macintosh

[Ramant62]

2 hours ago, Foreveram said:

I’ve told you once

No you haven't