EFL Verdict

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I’m glad it’s on the main page it doesn’t get talked about enough, those toy shop workers just don’t get paid enough. Santa = bully #northpolesweatshop 

Now now, the foreign sec has had meetings with Santa about this, he said conditions are "improving" but he has to remain competetive in a global marketplace and talk of unionising amongs the elves will be met with the most severe actions. Santa insisted they are not camps, or gulags as the elves say, but in fact completely humane residential training centres with the barbed wire a guards only there to ensure elf n safety.

He says no elves leave employment with him "because they are happy workers, working for christmas"

[JfR]

2 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Most of the clubs are against us on this. 

I don’t think we’ll get a ‘retrospective’ penalty but it’s the Tribunal not the EFl that decides that. 

Why don’t we sue Villa ??!!  Where would we all be if club a could sue club b for breach of the rules ? Come on 

Do we know this for sure, though? There's certain clubs that have been very, very vocally against us on this, but I've never been sure that it is the case that most or even a majority are against us. Clubs like Stoke and West Brom, while not discussing our case specifically, have been quite outspokenly against the direction that the EFL has taken more broadly, and you would have to imagine other owners that use unusual procedures in running their clubs might be concerned about the ramifications of this. I would imagine other clubs that have used the stadium loophole (Reading, Birmingham, etc.), for example, might be fairly supportive of us, seeing as they might see that it could be them under the spotlight next. I also thought the fact that Stephen Pearce was elected by the other clubs' representatives onto the EFL board as the Championship representative the other season was probably a sign that Derby are more well respected by other Championship clubs than we might sometimes appear from the outside.

Personally, I've started to get the feeling that the Championship has a very hard split down the middle with clubs like us on one side and clubs like Middlesbrough on the other, and that there's currently a bit of a "civil war" going on between the sides over the direction that the EFL should be going.

[San Fran Van Rams]

Just a quick thought - can the EFL postpone our and Wycombe's first few games until the accounts are re-submitted so that a penalty can be applied to last season?

My (nascent) understanding is that the EFL are likely to appeal the DCs punishment of 100k fine (to change it to a points deduction). Subsequently, they can then punish us for any FFP rule breaking in the previous years accounts. 

If they can postpone games, is the worse case scenario here a deduction for last season to relegate us based on the resubmitted accounts, and then another points deduction at some point during the 21/22 season dependent on the appeal to the DC?

EFL could effectively relegate us twice and all because Mel had the gumption to challenge their TV money negotiations.

[Pearl Ram]

2 minutes ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

Just a quick thought - can the EFL postpone our and Wycombe's first few games until the accounts are re-submitted so that a penalty can be applied to last season?

According to a post I read on OTIB (the Bristol City forum) they can do exactly that. Rule 28:2 I believe it was quoted.

They have a thread dedicated to our trials and tribulations. A couple of people on there are quite enthusiastic about our downfall, one in particular.

Check it out if you ever have trouble sleeping. ?

[strawhillram]

23 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Now now, the foreign sec has had meetings with Santa about this, he said conditions are "improving" but he has to remain competetive in a global marketplace and talk of unionising amongs the elves will be met with the most severe actions. Santa insisted they are not camps, or gulags as the elves say, but in fact completely humane residential training centres with the barbed wire a guards only there to ensure elf n safety.

He says no elves leave employment with him "because they are happy workers, working for christmas"

Subordinate clause in their contracts

[JfR]

13 minutes ago, San Fran Van Rams said:

If they can postpone games, is the worse case scenario here a deduction for last season to relegate us based on the resubmitted accounts, and then another points deduction at some point during the 21/22 season dependent on the appeal to the DC?

I would think it's the other way around. Worst case scenario being that they appeal the original verdict and that results in a retroactive relegation, and then when the redone accounts are submitted they charge us again for further breaches in the hopes of an additional points deduction. Of course, this would require the original sanction to be overturned as an inadequate punishment for the offence committed (not particularly likely, this would require the DC to have significantly messed up in their judgment) and for the resubmitted accounts to show an overspend beyond the accepted limits (no idea if this is the case or not, though the likes of Kieran Maguire believe we'll probably just about be OK).

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

2 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Most of the clubs are against us on this. 

I don’t think we’ll get a ‘retrospective’ penalty but it’s the Tribunal not the EFl that decides that. 

Why don’t we sue Villa ??!!  Where would we all be if club a could sue club b for breach of the rules ? Come on 

I am not convinced it is the clubs apart from the usual culprits. Mel had a good go at the EFL when they renewed the tv contract and he tried to get Leeds and others to overturn the decision. Pay back time

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, The_Sheriff said:

Why would they do an interchangeable fixture list then?

Because an appeal is still an option. Doesn’t mean they will.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

Why do you think that ?

No particular insight, just an opinion. I just think they might just think they’ve achieved one of their primary aims - for the club to recalculate their accounts based on the amortisation policy they want, that may well result in a points deduction next season, and maybe they might accept they’re flogging a dead horse to appeal the penalty.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Tamworthram

[JfR]

Slightly surprised that the written reasons haven't been published yet. Looking over the club statements for the original case, the outcome was announced on the 25th of August and the full written reasons published on the 26th. It's now two days on from the EFL's statement.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Foreveram said:

No but it’s all they’ve got 

Loughborough Town?

[ilkleyram]

5 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

I dont think the EFL have actually done anything wrong with regards the interchangeable fixtures. These would have been decided a while ago, before the IDC decision was announced so this is actually forward thinking from the EFL for once, even if its never been done before. There were 4 scenarios from the IDC result -

1. Both us & the EFL are happy = no appeal

2. EFL happy, we're not = we appeal

3. We're happy, EFL arent = EFL appeal

4. Neither are happy = both appeal

So the interchangeable fixtures were created due to a 75% chance an appeal could be made and the divisional swap may or may not happen. If they hadnt done this then lets say 2 days before the season started it turned out we changed division, imagine the nightmare of having to sort the fixtures out. It could have been we were relegated to League 1 by the IDC, appealed and reinstated to the Championship, either way this needed to be done. I think the timing of the IDC result made it look worse but I reckon if we hadnt got the result when we did the interchangeable fixtures would still have been announced but with a comment saying we are just waiting on the IDC decision.

I do - think the EFL have handled it appallingly, not just the whole affair but the announcement of the DC result. 

In over 50 years of watching football I can't recall a similar situation where it has been made so explicit that Team A and Team B's fixtures and Divisions might be swapped around, and with 6 weeks to go.  I don't have too much sympathy for Wycombe and their gobby chairman but they are in the same situation as us.  They have no idea which division they will be in to plan accordingly.  They've already sold at least one player who might have stayed if they had been in the Championship.  It matters not a jot what is likely to happen about an appeal, in one statement they have effectively put the preseason planning of two clubs, maybe other clubs wanting to trade players and the livelihoods of unknown numbers of players at risk and uncertainty.

Releasing any statement of that magnitude just before midnight without going through a process of agreeing it with the parties involved (never mind being deliberately imprecise in several pretty important areas) is incompetent at best.  It was driven by the sudden realisation that the fixtures came out the next day - fixtures that they knew were coming out on that date for months.  Somebody in the EFL panicked and for what?  It didn't have to be made.  No doubt they were also putting huge pressure on the DC behind the scenes to come to a conclusion, possibly before the DC were properly ready to do so.  That may have worked in our favour slightly.

The EFL have shown themselves to have a rulebook that is not fit for purpose, a disciplinary process that is not fit for purpose and an organisation devoid of leadership in thrall to the EPL, TV companies and the players' union. It has shown itself as being incapable of leading its members safely through a completely exceptional time when incomes have been decimated. Where we now tread so others will follow too (and already have) and unless they change significantly other clubs and fans will have to suffer their gross mismanagement of the game.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, Spanish said:

They have to appeal, the rest of the league will expect them to do so

You may be right but do we know the rest of the league (except for Wycombe and Middlesbrough) expect and want them to prolong the agony any longer (at the clubs expenses)? Maybe they'll be content with the fact that we've been forced to comply and might well face a points deduction next season.

[CornwallRam]

On the interchangeable fixture list - what exactly would the EFL have had to consider? Both us and Wycombe are one club towns, so I don't think there is any action needed to swap between the two. In the past, Christmas and Easter featured local derbies, but they seem to have abandoned that.

Edited June 25, 2021 by CornwallRam

[RadioactiveWaste]

4 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

On the interchangeable fixture list - what exactly would the EFL have had to consider. Both us and Wycombe are one club towns, so I don't think there is any action needed to swap between the two. In the past, Christmas and Easter featured local derbies, but they seem to have abandoned that.

Probably had wycombe chipping at them "we might stay up if Derby are deducted points, you better have prepared for that. you better not fail to impliment a deduction on the grounds you've already done the fixtures....we'd sue you if you did" the whoe time.

[Gringo]

38 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

You can tell the Wycombe fixture swap was a slap dash attempt of stirring the pot, unfortunately it seems to have worked.

The EFL should be held accountable for their actions, they are literally rallying clubs against us and doing anything they can to cause our club grief.

It's clear the EFLs end game is to see Derby relegated before Mel leaves the club.

Ricky Parry, an obvious narcissistic egotistical parasite will no doubt light up a Cuban and pour himself a rum and black and toast his achievements, without a second thought for the staff who have lost jobs, the fans who have truly suffered and the club with almost 130 years of history.

Rum and black! you are a child of the 60’s

[Nishfan]

As suggested somewhere in this thread, I emailed my MP today to ask if there’s anything she can do.

Has anyone else?

[MackworthRamIsGod]

8 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Rum and black! you are a child of the 60’s

It just sticks in my head from a line in Only Fools and Horses.

[DCFC1388]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

I do - think the EFL have handled it appallingly, not just the whole affair but the announcement of the DC result. 

In over 50 years of watching football I can't recall a similar situation where it has been made so explicit that Team A and Team B's fixtures and Divisions might be swapped around, and with 6 weeks to go.  I don't have too much sympathy for Wycombe and their gobby chairman but they are in the same situation as us.  They have no idea which division they will be in to plan accordingly.  They've already sold at least one player who might have stayed if they had been in the Championship.  It matters not a jot what is likely to happen about an appeal, in one statement they have effectively put the preseason planning of two clubs, maybe other clubs wanting to trade players and the livelihoods of unknown numbers of players at risk and uncertainty.

Releasing any statement of that magnitude just before midnight without going through a process of agreeing it with the parties involved (never mind being deliberately imprecise in several pretty important areas) is incompetent at best.  It was driven by the sudden realisation that the fixtures came out the next day - fixtures that they knew were coming out on that date for months.  Somebody in the EFL panicked and for what?  It didn't have to be made.  No doubt they were also putting huge pressure on the DC behind the scenes to come to a conclusion, possibly before the DC were properly ready to do so.  That may have worked in our favour slightly.

The EFL have shown themselves to have a rulebook that is not fit for purpose, a disciplinary process that is not fit for purpose and an organisation devoid of leadership in thrall to the EPL, TV companies and the players' union. It has shown itself as being incapable of leading its members safely through a completely exceptional time when incomes have been decimated. Where we now tread so others will follow too (and already have) and unless they change significantly other clubs and fans will have to suffer their gross mismanagement of the game.

I completely agree that the way they went about it is totally wrong and the whole thing from their end stinks. Who knows if they put pressure on the IDC but either way they should have agreed a joint statement with the club before anything was said. I dont understand why the IDC would announce their decision at such a late time either.

My point was though that the so called interchangable fixtures were decided before the IDC decision so would have been announced on fixture day anyway, but because of the poor timing of the IDCs decision it led to a poor timing of their own statement which was poor.

The chances are the interchangeable fixtures arent necessary but they will be if the EFL had got what they wanted or if they do get it on appeal. What the process behind it actually involved I dont know as like someone mentioned previously there is no reason us & Wycombe couldnt have just changed fixtures anyway, dont know if there would be too much conflict of local games for policing etc.

[JfR]

Curtis Davies was interviewed by Sky about this here:
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/teams/Derby-county/12340958/davies-interchangeable-fixtures-hard-to-take

Don't think there's too much in there that hasn't been said already, but may be of interest to some. Sounds like if all goes to plan he intends to be at Derby next season, though.