v Stoke City (A) - Matchday Thread

[brady1993]

Another game, another set of questionable tactics and another loss. Quelle surprise.

You'd think after tuesday we'd try to deploy Sibley at #10 again playing off CKR wouldn't you ? Well nope. In fairness I kind of see the idea with playing him as a false 9 in a fluid mobile front three, the only major problem with this idea is we didn't set up for it appropriately. If that's the plan you need to start either Jozwiak or Lawrence for the extra movement and mobility so the 3 can interchange and rotate fluidly. This especially flawed when CKR looks blatently not fit and you shove him out on the left. You also likely need one of your midfield two capable of getting on the ball and trying to pick out one of the front 3 rather than two runners who are everywhere off the ball and yet nowhere to be seen when you actually get the ball. It's another game where are tactics and selection seem caught between trying to keep it on the ground and pass are way through team and a punt and hope team.

The change to bring Sibley back into midfield did make some sense and I thought he looked a touch brighter and wasn't surprised to see he had the best chance of the game, it didn't solve the primary issues of having a half fit CKR and no through line through midfield however. And then the changes come. The three coming on made a lot of sense in particular because we needed more movement up front and more players trying to get on the ball. But why would you take Sibley off there ? Knight and Shinnie had been given the ball up for fun or generally shying away from it and you just don't need that level of defensive security when you have 3 centre backs. Surely the logical thing to would have been take off Shinnie in that position and play a 352 ? It's another example in a mounting series of evidence where tactically we are so paranoid about what the opposition might do it cripples us. We started to look a bit brighter on the ball which was unsurprising but it still was off and always was going to be with the changes made. 

With the final changes we finally looked like a said that could actually play a bit but by then we are 1 down against a solid team with 10 minutes to go.  We have to start thinking about how we set up in a more progressive fashions and looking to beat teams from the off rather than being petrified about conceded to the point it constricts us or else we will not arrest this slide. Without looking through these pages though I can guess already that the blame is being shifted away from Rooney again because to a lot of people no matter how questionable what he does is he can't do anything wrong to the the point that if we go down under him it'll be all "He gave it a shot and couldn't do more than what he was asked" rather than giving him the substantial portion of blame he would deserve in such a situation.

[Millenniumram]

Yet another disappointing result, and yet another game we didn’t deserve anything out of. Does Rooney never learn? We finally looked half decent going forward second half against Brentford, when we actually had some attackers on the pitch and Sibley in his natural position. So what does he do today? Stick Sibley back out on the wing, and persist with the same pair of midfield runners in Shinnie and Knight, who don’t have an ounce of footballing quality between them. Beggars belief, it really does. And then what does he do when we need a goal? Stick another defensive mid on, and two wingers up front. You can’t write it. Utter managerial incompetence - for such a good attacker in his playing days, Rooney isn’t half a negative manager. Every game is just set up to try and nick a 1-0, which almost inevitably ends in the reverse. He’s almost making Cocu look ambitious!

Not that the players escape without criticism either. The effort out there today was frankly a disgrace. We were desperate for a win, but absolutely no one showed any desire to make that happen. There was no energy anywhere, we barely made an attempt to press them, and essentially just allowed Stoke to just walk all over us. In such an important game, the players should hang their heads in shame at the work rate they showed in that match. Not fit to wear the shirt.

Other teams below us are fighting and we’re not, which is exactly why we’re going down. You don’t deserve to stay up when you’ve played so negatively all season long.

[Dinnitdough]

I dont think Rooney deserves all the blame.

The players take 70+ minutes to start playing with urgency.
 

And I would argue that our team has the worst chemistry in the league.
I feel we have players that individually are strong, but they aren’t functioning together.

 

[GrimsbyRam]

20 minutes ago, DJFern94 said:

And I think time has distorted your memory of the squad he was working with compared to the squad Rooney has at his disposal?

the same players?  Did he not choose to put CKR on the wing lol....we would have been down and out with him!

[GrimsbyRam]

20 minutes ago, RammingStone66 said:

Think he is trying to say that we are playing similar to under Cocu so may e it's more about this group of players than it is a manager. Without Bielik we look lost 

We looked a bunch of misfits under Cocu.  We look a poor 'team' now.  

[strawhillram]

5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Yet another disappointing result, and yet another game we didn’t deserve anything out of. Does Rooney never learn? We finally looked half decent going forward second half against Brentford, when we actually had some attackers on the pitch and Sibley in his natural position. So what does he do today? Stick Sibley back out on the wing, and persist with the same pair of midfield runners in Shinnie and Knight, who don’t have an ounce of footballing quality between them. Beggars belief, it really does. And then what does he do when we need a goal? Stick another defensive mid on, and two wingers up front. You can’t write it. Utter managerial incompetence - for such a good attacker in his playing days, Rooney isn’t half a negative manager. Every game is just set up to try and nick a 1-0, which almost inevitably ends in the reverse. He’s almost making Cocu look ambitious!

Not that the players escape without criticism either. The effort out there today was frankly a disgrace. We were desperate for a win, but absolutely no one showed any desire to make that happen. There was no energy anywhere, we barely made an attempt to press them, and essentially just allowed Stoke to just walk all over us. In such an important game, the players should hang their heads in shame at the work rate they showed in that match. Not fit to wear the shirt.

Other teams below us are fighting and we’re not, which is exactly why we’re going down. You don’t deserve to stay up when you’ve played so negatively all season long.

Well said sir

[Rev]

A fish rots from the head down.

[Bad Sheep]

Apart from the game where he was inexplicably played in midfield, I think Edmundson has played OK. However for some reason he's just not getting games despite appearing to be a better player than either Wisdom or Mengi. I can only assume it's because we have no chance of signing him, and we're hoping to get Mengi on loan next season. I can't help feeling that this strategy is backfiring on us.

[BIllyD]

1 minute ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's clear playing multiple shapes, multiple formations and doing little but hoofball is a tactical decision by the current manager because it's substantially different from what we saw under Cocu. If the players can't implement his vision then he's got to change the vision. It's clear that these tactics aren't working, the shapes he's using (multiple ones over games) are a mess and the reliance on the wingbacks to create chances isn't sustainable and never was. The squad is not any worse than Millwall's so then what is the difference?  

Milwalls is better, because Rowett has brought in players to suit his style. He has had a number of transfer windows and also some money to bring in players to play that style we know Rowett loves.

Rooney has what, a bunch of players that were unwanted from their previous clubs and were brought in because they were the only ones available at the last transfer window. Then we move onto the ones that were left for him to work with, a bunch of kids still learning their trade, no goal scorer in sight and a let's be honest a team of players that if you were another manager you would want in your first 11 with the exception of 1 or 2.

 

 

 

[Millenniumram]

Shocking to hear about Waghorn, cannot be having players with that kind of attitude around the squad. No way does he get a new contract now, it’ll be goodbye and good riddance in the summer.

Further emphasises the point I was making about this squad though. They just don’t care enough. Not up for the relegation fight one bit.

[GrimsbyRam]

1 minute ago, Millenniumram said:

Shocking to hear about Waghorn, cannot be having players with that kind of attitude around the squad. No way does he get a new contract now, it’ll be goodbye and good riddance in the summer.

Further emphasises the point I was making about this squad though. They just don’t care enough. Not up for the relegation fight one bit.

hes been playing for weeks like that - slow cumbersome and not tracking back like Joz or Lawrence would do

[Anag Ram]

5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Yet another disappointing result, and yet another game we didn’t deserve anything out of. Does Rooney never learn? We finally looked half decent going forward second half against Brentford, when we actually had some attackers on the pitch and Sibley in his natural position. So what does he do today? Stick Sibley back out on the wing, and persist with the same pair of midfield runners in Shinnie and Knight, who don’t have an ounce of footballing quality between them. Beggars belief, it really does. And then what does he do when we need a goal? Stick another defensive mid on, and two wingers up front. You can’t write it. Utter managerial incompetence - for such a good attacker in his playing days, Rooney isn’t half a negative manager. Every game is just set up to try and nick a 1-0, which almost inevitably ends in the reverse. He’s almost making Cocu look ambitious!

Not that the players escape without criticism either. The effort out there today was frankly a disgrace. We were desperate for a win, but absolutely no one showed any desire to make that happen. There was no energy anywhere, we barely made an attempt to press them, and essentially just allowed Stoke to just walk all over us. In such an important game, the players should hang their heads in shame at the work rate they showed in that match. Not fit to wear the shirt.

Other teams below us are fighting and we’re not, which is exactly why we’re going down. You don’t deserve to stay up when you’ve played so negatively all season long.

We play three centre halves but I'm never confident we will win our headers in the box. 

And who's marking at the back post? 

Jason frickin Knight. 

Roos rooted to his line. 

We have to have a go. The players must be bored going into every game with little hope of attacking football. 

[SSD]

The club as a whole has unfortunately fallen into the trap of feeling safe and getting carried away. They did well to get out a massive hole at the bottom of the league. We were on track to be safe with the great form. The last few weeks, the team and the staff have been woeful. Constantly changing the formation every game, the team being very passive and not attacking enough. It has felt like the club have been on the beach for a month. Stoke have the luxury of that, we definitely did not today. The game was dreadful.

We've been cack for awhile and we're going to be sleepwalking to the relegation zone. Awful all round sadly.

[Whoneedshuls]

With the international break will Ibe be any closer to the first team training ?

[Leeds Ram]

Just now, BIllyD said:

Milwalls is better, because Rowett has brought in players to suit his style. He has had a number of transfer windows and also some money to bring in players to play that style we know Rowett loves.

Rooney has what, a bunch of players that were unwanted from their previous clubs and were brought in because they were the only ones available at the last transfer window. Then we move onto the ones that were left for him to work with, a bunch of kids still learning their trade, no goal scorer in sight and a let's be honest a team of players that if you were another manager you would want in your first 11 with the exception of 1 or 2.

 

 

 

Give me a break, I don't think anyone who watched the game against Millwall honestly thought man for man quality wise we haven't got a better squad. We've got a weakish squad for the division that is generally inexperienced but we've got enough attacking, midfield and defensive quality to be mid-table. The squad is being chronically mismanaged, misapplied and lulled into a sense of complacency by a 'manager' who has been saying up until today that we're not going to go down and he's planning for promotion to the premiership next season... 

[Patrick Rams]

Shocking to hear a senior player is kicked out of the squad because of not even putting the effort in training.There seems to be a nasty smell coming from the dressing room which doesn't bode well for the rest of the season.Desparate times at Pride Park.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Don't agree. Yes, the manager is inexperienced but the players at our disposal are generally not good enough. New team required I'm afraid. 

[Ruud Aralliss]

7 minutes ago, Rev said:

A fish rots from the head down.

Do they though ? 

[LeedsCityRam]

Another thoroughly dull afternoon capped off with a soft goal to lose the match.

Honestly not sure what Rooney is seeing in some of these line ups. Start Kazim who clearly looked unfit & then spend the match punting mindless hoofball in his general direction. Stoke play deep & have a static midfield...so we play Knight & Shinnie, who spend the first 45 mins sitting on top of the centre halves & losing the ball constantly. Not a big fan of Waghorn but was it really necessary to drop him from the matchday squad for Cameron Cresswell?!?

Quality wise it was very like Barnsley away but without the extenuating circumstances of awful weather. Kazim, Sibley & Roberts got very little quality into them first half & not surprisingly, we lacked any control of the match. Stoke were hardly inspired either but were given the ball back time & time again.

Second half started slightly better with Knight pushing up...Sibley finally got involved in the match with a snapshot just wide & Kazim fashioned himself a chance with a fantastic touch. Got no idea how Shinnie & Knight stayed on the pitch whilst Sibley & Roberts were hauled off...a total lack of ambition & we paid for that shortly after with our obligatory glaring defensive error. Commentary summed it up by saying it was 'very difficult for Derby to come back from this'...there was 15 mins to play (20 including injury time) & we were only one down!!

The key to staying up is to score goals & win matches. Its high time Rooney & his coaching team gave priority to this.

[Comrade 86]

Grim day to be an English Derby fan. Poohoused by Stoke for the umpteenth time, smashed in a series defining loss in the cricket and now being handed our asses by Ireland in the rugby. Time for a long walk I reckon ?