v Stoke City (A) - Matchday Thread

[Brammie Steve]

8 hours ago, Ken Tram said:

Maybe the players didn't have any energy tonight … because we selected the players who had used up the most energy during training? (lol ?) 

Two weeks of boot camp commando /SAS training coming up!

[ramsbottom]

9 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

Agree. Still think the sheer amount of academy talent we have is certainly the best we’ve had in my lifetime. Buchanan Bird Sibley Knight will all play in the premier league imo. But believing we are in a position right now to have 50% of a match day squad made up of academy players and still be competitive was the wrong assumption and I think the biggest reason why we are where we are. The four players I mention above have shown their quality but also had prolonged dips in form. We can’t rely on them yet.

Mel only started spouting this target because he saw the writing was on the wall with spunking his own money into the club. I’m happy to be proved wrong, but I can’t remember it being part of his vision when he first took charge.

[Jimbo Ram]

4 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Mel only started spouting this target because he saw the writing was on the wall with spunking his own money into the club. I’m happy to be proved wrong, but I can’t remember it being part of his vision when he first took charge.

Interesting point, maybe he came to realise spending millions on mediocre players wasn’t sustainable long term ?

[jono]

8 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Bird has a good football brain and lovely technique but lacks pace. Same for Sibley. I don’t think they will make the Pl because for players of their ilk pace is a prerequisite. Knight has great energy and is a good destructive player but needs to develop his play in possession. Maybe he could make it. Buchanan - just don’t know how he will progress, could do well but needs to develop physically. Watson has pace and more ability than the rest. 
Rooney does not appear to be good at developing our talent 

I think you make a good point. They are ours so we get excited when some decent lads come through but will they be . Premier league or just good quality Championship players ? Just can’t be sure when they are teenagers.. I think your right about Bird but maybe age will make him that bit tougher. I think Knight will improve, again with age and physique. His engine is exceptional. Sibley will be useful. Midfielders with an eye for goal are in short supply, but is that enough for the top flight?

The only one who I see as a dead cert top flight is Buchanan. So young but he really is a proper wing back and understands both attacking and defending responsibilities. I see right him now as better all round player than Lowe or Bogle 

[IlsonDerby]

team to start the next match for me:   
                    Marshall 

    Byrne Edmundson Clarke Buchanan

                           Bird

                    Shinnie Sibley 

      Roberts     Gregory     Lawrence 

 

could quite easily swap Shinnie for Knight both been uninspiring lately but provide the legs to allow Sibley to get involved further forward. Gregory in to give CKR a rest. Bloke shouldn’t be taking pain killing injections to play a football match. Edmondson more physically dominant than Wisdom and I’ve been fairly happy with how he’s been with the ball at his feet. 
Bird told to simply keep the ball moving quickly, picking out any of the front ‘4’ if they’re on otherwise recycle/aim for the channels. 
 

 

 

[Rev]

1 hour ago, ramsbottom said:

Mel only started spouting this target because he saw the writing was on the wall with spunking his own money into the club. I’m happy to be proved wrong, but I can’t remember it being part of his vision when he first took charge.

Pretty much the first thing he spent time and money on was making us a Cat 1 academy.

That shows some intention to grow our own, I'd suggest. Maybe not to 50%, but it was always part of the plan.

[LeedsCityRam]

10 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Bird has a good football brain and lovely technique but lacks pace. Same for Sibley. I don’t think they will make the Pl because for players of their ilk pace is a prerequisite. Knight has great energy and is a good destructive player but needs to develop his play in possession. Maybe he could make it. Buchanan - just don’t know how he will progress, could do well but needs to develop physically. Watson has pace and more ability than the rest. 
Rooney does not appear to be good at developing our talent 

Definitely correct about pace being a sought after asset at the top level but I don't think it's a pre-requisite to play in the Prem.

The biggest asset any player has is footballing intelligence/decision making & its generally that strength that separates the great players from the good players. From a physical point of view, there's plenty of players with pace or strength down the divisions but their decision making & game intelligence is ordinary when put under pressure.

Going back to Bird & Sibley, I'd say both are capable of playing at a higher level but both need to improve the decision making part of their game to compensate for lack of pace. Bird's composure on the ball & range of passing is rare for a lad his age but feel his movement into space & demanding of the ball has gone backwards from this time last year. Same with Sibley - be mobile, get into those pockets of space & demand the ball. We saw that from Louie on Tuesday & he looked fantastic. Strongly suspect confidence (or lack of it) is another factor with both of them & a consistent starting spot for both would help that dramatically.

Agree with your final point & this was an area Cocu was very good at. Bird & Sibley both looked excellent prospects when he got them into the team last year. Not seen any improvement in young players at first team level this season apart from Buchanan (Watson's development done in the Academy/under 23s)

[brady1993]

13 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

Bird has a good football brain and lovely technique but lacks pace. Same for Sibley. I don’t think they will make the Pl because for players of their ilk pace is a prerequisite. Knight has great energy and is a good destructive player but needs to develop his play in possession. Maybe he could make it. Buchanan - just don’t know how he will progress, could do well but needs to develop physically. Watson has pace and more ability than the rest. 
Rooney does not appear to be good at developing our talent 

I don't think either Bird's or Sibley's pace will be a problem if I'm honest; both are quick enough for the position I expect they will grow into.

Playing as a holding midfielder is more often about being disciplined, reading the game, having good positioning and being ultra reliable on the ball. All of which are qualities Bird has. If anything I suspect the couple things holding him back are a combination of physically maturing, backing himself a bit more to hit the difficult pass (because he certainly can do it) and not playing in the role that he would likely flourish (i.e. a sole CDM).

Sibley's main issue is that he is best suited in the long term to playing in a midfield 3 but at times right now drifts in and out of games a bit too much. Now I actually think is partly a problem with how he's been deployed as by the nature of the position it's not as easy to get involved in the game from wide or when you are pushed really far forward but it's something he needs to work on. It's something that again likely comes with time and maturity because the ability is there.

[DavesaRam]

Here we go again! I said for the Brentford match how things happened when we pressed, played with pace and actually attacked. It turns out that Rooney decided we had nothing to loose, so we might as well give it a go. Virtually everybody could see that is what we have needed to do for the entire season. But yet again, having proved what works, we go and chuck the whole lot in the bin and go back to what we have proved doesn't work, and hasn't every single time we have gone back to it. BUT BACK TO IT WE GO, OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

A big puzzle for me is how Rooney seems to have sleepless nights worrying about how the opposition play, but hadn't spotted that Stoke have a load of gigantic defenders, and most of the rest of the team as well, and they are known for the rough stuff - hence the two elbow in the face incidents early on. So his plan was play it long and high up to one man, who even though he is one of our tallest, is still several inches shorter than the guy marking him. It is blatantly obvious to just about everybody, from office worker, to gardener, to engineer to bus conductor et al, but not football managers it seems, that big blokes tend to be a bit cumbersome at ground level, so the scene was ideal for our "footballers", but instead we put our most potent threat out on the wing. Once again he proved that Sibley is best in the No 10 role, so winger it is, then! ? And there is one of our better chances thrown away giving Sibley neck ache  as the ball hurtled 5 miles over his head! And yes, we filled the team with defenders again, having proved that if you have some attack-minded players involved, things tend to look better.

A clue was when I caught the tail end of the interview with Matt Clarke, who said that we like to keep things tight, and that the longer we keep things at nil - nil, the better it is for us. Did you catch that? Clarke just told us that the team's ambition is to keep things at 0 - 0 for as long as possible.  No wonder we offer nothing going forwards. I said to my son when we saw the team selection "Its great to see Sibley starting. What that means is that he will be the first to be subbed off". And he was. The poor sod! Rooney wants him to do more when he gets on the pitch, and then plays him in  a way that won't let him. Good grief.

When we did play on the floor, we created the greatest threats, with CKR having a shot, Menghi ballooning it over, and Knight whipping in a brilliant cross which Shinnie only just missed. But that just typifies our lack of goals - Shinnie could see where Knight was going, but only decided to try and get to the cross after Knight had already hit the ball over, and was consequently just too late. If he had chanced that the ball would arrive in the middle he would have been in the right place to put the ball home, but instead held back.

In the end, only Byrne and Roos, who has noticeably improved in his time out of the first team, were worth their shirts. Not that Sibley was bad enough to sub off, just that he wasn't given a chance. Again.

I had hoped that the ref's naivety last season would have gone, but he was a bit pudding, wasn't he? He failed to deal with two elbows to the head early on, and was giving free-kicks for nowt to Stoke - we only has to think about challenging and his whistle was going, but yet again, it wasn't the useless ref, it was the useless team selection and tactics.

My future daughter in law sent us a picture of my son fast asleep while watching the match, and when he woke up he texted us saying it was the best 15 minutes of the match he had seen!

Nuff said!

 

PS: Maybe Waghorn's problem is that he was always being picked, regardless of performance, and assumed with CKR being injured he was an automatic shoe-in for the centre-forwards slot, and didn't feel the need to try too hard.

To close with: My church are calling us to focus on a week of prayer and fasting - not necessarily fasting from food, but giving up something for the week that will cost us. I could volunteer to give up watching the Rams, but at the moment that would be no sacrifice at all!

[Jimbo Ram]

7 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Here w go again! I said f the Brentford match how things happened when we pressed, played with pace and actually attacked. It turns out that Rooney decided we had nothing to loose, so we might as well give it a go. Virtually everybody could see that is what we have needed to do for the entire season. But yet again, having proved what works, qwe go and chuck the whole lot in the bin and go back to what we have proved doesn't work, and hasn't every single time we have gone back to it. BUT BACK TO IT WE GO, OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

A big puzzle for me is how Rooney seems to have sleepless nights worrying about how the opposition play, but hadn't spotted that stoke have a load of gigantic defenders, and most of the rest of the team as well, and they are known for the rough stuff - hence the two elbow in the face incidents early on. So his plan was play it long and high up to one man, who even though he is one of our tallest, is still several inches shorter than the guy marking him. It is blatantly obvious to just about everybody, from office worker, to gardener, to engineer to bus conductor et al, but not football managers it seems, that big blokes tend to be a bit cumbersome at ground level, so the scene was ideal for our "footballers", but instead we put our most potent threat out on the wing. Once again he proved that Sibley is best in the No 10 role, so winger it is, then! ? And there is one of our better chances thrown away giving Sibley neck ache  as the ball hurtled 5 miles over his head! And yes, we filled the team with defenders again, having proved that if you have some attack-minded players involved, things tend to look better.

A clue was when I caught the tail end of the interview with Matt Clarke, who said that we like to keep things tight, and that the longer we keep things at nil - nil, the better it is for us. Did you catch that? Clarke just told us that the teams ambition is to keep things at 0 - 0 for as long as possible.  No wonder we offer nothing going forwards. I said to my son when we saw the team selection "Its great to see Sibley starting. What that means is that he will be the first to be subbed off. And he was. The poor sod! Rooney wants him to do more when he gets on the pitch, and then plays him in  a way that won't let him. Good grief.

When we did play on the floor, we created the greatest threats, with CKR having a shot, Menghi ballooning it over, and Knight whipping in a brilliant cross which Shinnie only just missed. But that just typifies our lack of goals - Shinnie could see where Knight was going, but only decided to try and get to the cross after Knight had already hit the ball over, and was consequently just too late. If he had chanced that the ball would arrive in the middle he would have been in the right place to put the ball home, but instead held back.

In the end, only Byrne and Roos, who has noticeably improved in his time out of the first team, were worth their shirts. Not that Sibley was bad enough to sub off, just that he wasn't given a chance. Again.

I had hoped that the ref's naivety last season would have gone, but he was a bit pudding, wasn't he? He failed to deal with two elbows to the head early on, and was giving free-kicks for nowt to Stoke - we only has to think about challenging and his whistle was going, but yet again, it wasn't the useless ref, it was the useless team selection and tactics.

My future daughter in law sent us a picture of my son fast asleep while watching the match, and when he woke up he texted us saying it was the best 15 minutes of the match he had seen!

Nuff said!

 

PS: Maybe Waghorn's problem is that he was always being picked, regardless of performance, and assumed with CKR being injured he was an automatic shoe-in for the centre-forwards slot, and didn't feel the need to try too hard.

To close: My church are calling us to focus on a week of prayer and fasting - not necessarily fasting from food, but giving up something for the week that will cost us. I could volunteer to give up watching the Rams, but at the moment that would be no sacrifice at all!

Do you pray before each Rams match?

[DavesaRam]

Not necessarily for football success. There will be people of faith praying for all the teams on match day. That puts God in a bit of a tough position - which team (s) does He bless with success, and which ones does He make lose? And why?

Although this lot need a miracle of some sort!

[Jimbo Ram]

9 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

Not necessarily for football success. There will be people of faith praying for all the teams on match day. That puts God in a bit of a tough position - which team (s) does He bless with success, and which ones does He make lose? And why?

Although this lot need a miracle of some sort!

Yea, always wondered on what basis he/she/it grants prayer requests.....if you work out how many he/she/it receives on a daily basis across the world....mind blowing if you work out the maths.....is it a bit like Santa, has little helpers with answering the prayers?

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said:

Yea, always wondered on what basis he/she/it grants prayer requests.....if you work out how many he/she/it receives on a daily basis across the world....mind blowing if you work out the maths.....is it a bit like Santa, has little helpers with answering the prayers?

This wasn't meant to be a preach about god, it was a comment about just how bad we currently are, and God knows they need a miracle! I think there are more important things than football to bother about, both for God and for us. Effectively our football stadiums are a modern day amphitheatre with events designed to distract people from what is really going on if only people would be bothered to look. We can't - we'd rather blather on about football, so the plan is working.