The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Mostyn6]

I’d be more judgemental towards drink drivers, dangerous drivers, violent thugs, poor health and safety etc than people who won’t wear a mask if you’re concerned about saving a life. 

[ariotofmyown]

Daily Mail reporting 900k people were told to isolate in first week of July.

Guardian saying 1.6M told to isolate in the last week.

Most the country is gonna be in isolation soon once everything opens on Monday and cases are over 100k per day.

Same old story. Do nothing when cases are small but rising rapidly. Lockdown again when these cases grow so much as to be unmanageable.

I hope Supreme Leader Modi is impressed in what we've done for him when we next beg him for a trade deal.

Daily Mail also got a story about something I was always concerned about: getting app alert because your neighbour through wall has tested positive.

[G STAR RAM]

11 hours ago, nottingram said:

Surely it is worth it if it saves even one?

Whether it would or not, I don’t know. But seems a small price to pay for any chance at saving even one life, to me anyway.

To be clear I mean the individual decision to wear a mask. I understand pub table service provides significant challenges to the hospitality sector that perhaps need to be considered from an economic POV

On this basis will you be wearing a mask and social distancing for the rest of your life?

[G STAR RAM]

10 hours ago, sage said:

How do you know?

As we are being warned of deaths being around 7 times higher than under current restrictions, then maybe just 63,000 of those lives will be lost. Now I dare say, there is an economic argument to be made in the hospitality sector, I fail to see any rational thinking behind not wearing masks on trains and buses and in shops. 

Instead we have 'you can now do it, but you shouldn't' and 'it's up to businesses to set their own rules'.

Complete abdication of responsibility.  

Id prefer to call it returning people's liberty to them but maybe thats because I don't need the Government to tell me how to live my life safely.

[G STAR RAM]

49 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Daily Mail reporting 900k people were told to isolate in first week of July.

Guardian saying 1.6M told to isolate in the last week.

Most the country is gonna be in isolation soon once everything opens on Monday and cases are over 100k per day.

Same old story. Do nothing when cases are small but rising rapidly. Lockdown again when these cases grow so much as to be unmanageable.

I hope Supreme Leader Modi is impressed in what we've done for him when we next beg him for a trade deal.

Daily Mail also got a story about something I was always concerned about: getting app alert because your neighbour through wall has tested positive.

Well I certainly won't be isolating because I have no mechanism for anybody to tell me to isolate.

Can you quantify cases being 'unmanageable' please?

Having look at the Coronavirus dashboard I cannot see anything that would lead me to that conclusion?

[Albert]

On 13/07/2021 at 16:48, alexxxxx said:

Had the opportunity to grab a second vaccine dose a few weeks early.. I know a few people doing the same. 

Feels like the best thing to do right now with cases still rising. 

Will be interesting to see what the impact was on the semi and final to cases... Data seemed to show that case growth was slowing. 

Its really interesting looking at what Australia are doing right now.. Due to terrible vaccine supply and banning of AZ vaccine for under 60s they've barely got anyone protected. NSW looking like they're going to go in to full lockdown again..

No end in site for them if they carry on down this road.

To manage the first half of the pandemic so well and to be failing hard on the second half...

AZ is not recommended for under 60s, as opposed to banned. The current position in Australia is anyone over 18 can have it, but they need to speak with their GP first. Plenty of people under 60 are getting the AZ vaccine at the moment. 

The interesting one with NSW right now is it's exactly the concerns I raised on here months back. The Federal Government has been appalling pandemic long for Australia, and the vaccine rollout is just par for the course. The states handled things well individually, for the most part, but NSW has been a bit lucky throughout, and usually slow to clear outbreaks. The federal government, if anything, actively opposed much of the good work the states were doing, including actually supporting a legal challenge against WA's systems that were keeping them at zero. 

 

The issue for NSW is that they had some super spreader events, and still haven't fully locked down, instead being in a 'lockdown', as politically they turned their voting base against full lockdowns. Elsewhere, things are pretty under control, and honestly, have been close to normal for the last 12 months. The week I've spent in lockdown in the last 12 months has been worth of the other 51 of pretty much normal. Apart from NSW, which are in trouble of their own making, things are pretty stable here overall, though NSW is now seeding new outbreaks, like Victoria's new one, and the scare here in SA. 

[BrudeRAM]

10 hours ago, Archied said:

If I believed for one second that having a piece of paper or old cloth over your face had any REAL impact then perhaps I may see it differently but it’s just plain daft , now do I want kids sitting all day in masks at school ? No and for a multitude of reasons 

masks have been proven to reduce transmission in the vast majority of droplet/aerosol spread viral disease and multiple studies advocate the wearing of them to reduce the transmission. The level of efficacy of mask-wearing as a preventative measure varies depending on which studies you look at but the overwhelming body of literature that I've seen supports its use. It DOES make a difference. The argument it hasn/t worked because X number of people have died/been affected doesn't stand-up, many more people would have likely been infected/likely died without them and how correctly/strictly they are being adhered to will also affect the data.

Some sources if you want to find out more:

Mask wearing in pre-symptomatic patients prevents SARS-CoV-2 transmission: An epidemiological analysis ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32592903/ )  this one shows up to 2.5x reduced chance of catching COVID in close contacts

Potential utilities of mask-wearing and instant hand hygiene for fighting SARS-CoV-2 ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32232986/ ) this one uses a variety of similar SARS strains to emulate coronavirus to show masks block between 99.98% and 95.15% of droplets.

For balance I have included a RCT (randomized control trial) suggesting they do not definitely stop infection. However, this can be argued to be a flawed view as even if masks stop them on 99/100 occasions and on the 100th time they fail to stop transmission this study may falsely class them as 'ineffective' at stopping spread. ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7181908/ )

 

 

[ariotofmyown]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well I certainly won't be isolating because I have no mechanism for anybody to tell me to isolate.

Can you quantify cases being 'unmanageable' please?

Having look at the Coronavirus dashboard I cannot see anything that would lead me to that conclusion?

Well we are up to 50k cases a day now with 1.5m a week people told to isolate.

100k cases will be here soon, with maybe 3m cases people per week told to isolate.

There is a much higher chance of public facing roles, such as NHS having to isolate than people working at home.

The government are saying it will be a few weeks before they amend their world beating app.

I think it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that unfortunately another lockdown will be here soon.

How many times will we continue to act when it's too late?

[Marriot Ram99]

13 hours ago, sage said:

73,000 a year. Very small?

It's 0.1% of the population and a good chunk would have died of other causes but died with Covid instead of dying of Covid. Alot of people who would have soon died of old age or another illness die of Covid instead so it makes the numbers look more significant. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Marriot Ram99

[BrudeRAM]

On 15/07/2021 at 09:01, rammieib said:

I think the way the country has been in the past few months, the mask/no mask will make virtually no difference.

Also - variant escapes are going to happen as well regardless of the mask/no mask. However - I've seen scientists comment that there will be no variant which current vaccines won't have some impact on. 

Also - immunity is building up through vaccine or catching the virus. That will ultimately help in the long run.

Appreciate everyone has a different opinion though on the matter. I'm looking forward to not wearing a mask and will as much as possible avoid places which are making it mandatory.

It's undeniable that if people stop trying to distance where possible, stop washing and sanitising their hands properly and either stop wearing or wear masks incorrectly then the measures won't work. I don't personally see that as a reason to stop using them properly so that they do work though.

It is true that variants will arise with high levels of infection that we are experiencing and going to experience. The thing that is truly scary imo is the possibility of vaccine resistant strains. A lot of what I've read including this recent article thinks it's a real possibility with how fast variants have popped up, the fact we only target a quite specific component of the virus and despite recent efforts 66% ish of adults being vaccinated with rapidly rising infection leaves quite a significant opportunity for these strains to develop. Sincerely hope my own worries and those I have read are unfounded. Which scientists/reports have you seen that have played down the threat of resistant strains? Not me having a dig, genuinely interested because I try to keep on top of all this as best I can ?

[Archied]

11 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

It's 0.1% of the population and a good chunk would have died of other causes but died with Covid instead of dying of Covid. Alot of people who would have soon died of old age or another illness die of Covid instead so it makes the numbers look more significant. 

Have you not spotted the propaganda change yet?

[BrudeRAM]

11 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

It's 0.1% of the population and a good chunk would have died of other causes but died with Covid instead of dying of Covid. Alot of people who would have soon died of old age or another illness die of Covid instead so it makes the numbers look more significant. 

What's your point? If they're going to die of something, at some point in the future it doesn't matter that COVID killed them?

[Ghost of Clough]

13 hours ago, sage said:

73,000 a year. Very small?

12 hours ago, maxjam said:

Depends...

Its approx 0.1% of the population

Its 250 per day less than die of heart disease

But if its 1 person you know, its devastating.

12% of annual deaths

I believe that would put it in the top 5 biggest killers in the UK, maybe pushing top 3

 

[Gone]

18 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Well we are up to 50k cases a day now with 1.5m a week people told to isolate.

100k cases will be here soon, with maybe 3m cases people per week told to isolate.

There is a much higher chance of public facing roles, such as NHS having to isolate than people working at home.

The government are saying it will be a few weeks before they amend their world beating app.

I think it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that unfortunately another lockdown will be here soon.

How many times will we continue to act when it's too late?

Here we go the clamour for another lockdown begins, lead by Whitty. Cases, cases, cases so what if we have 5M? 3/4 of the adult population including 99% of those most effected have been double vaccinated. Are you telling me the vaccine doesn’t work and we’ve all had this for the craic ?

[G STAR RAM]

23 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Well we are up to 50k cases a day now with 1.5m a week people told to isolate.

100k cases will be here soon, with maybe 3m cases people per week told to isolate.

There is a much higher chance of public facing roles, such as NHS having to isolate than people working at home.

The government are saying it will be a few weeks before they amend their world beating app.

I think it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that unfortunately another lockdown will be here soon.

How many times will we continue to act when it's too late?

The only really relevant stat you have quoted in that is the number of people being told to isolate.

I guess the Government will continue to act on things when they continue to be pressured by people quoting completely irrelevant numbers?

As of yesterday:-

3786 people in hospital (capacity 40k?)

545 patients on ventilation (capacity 30k)

67.1% of adults have had both vaccinations

87.5% have had one vaccination

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by G STAR RAM

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

12 hours ago, nottingram said:

Surely it is worth it if it saves even one?

Whether it would or not, I don’t know. But seems a small price to pay for any chance at saving even one life, to me anyway.

To be clear I mean the individual decision to wear a mask. I understand pub table service provides significant challenges to the hospitality sector that perhaps need to be considered from an economic POV

18 months ago would you have said lets all wear masks to save one pperson dying of flu????

[Marriot Ram99]

14 minutes ago, BrudeRAM said:

What's your point? If they're going to die of something, at some point in the future it doesn't matter that COVID killed them?

Nt really no, if people dieing would have died soon of old age it shows Covid doesn't impact the general population significantly or take many years of life away. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Marriot Ram99

[Wolfie]

22 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

I think it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that unfortunately another lockdown will be here soon.

I disagree and IMO this would only happen if there is still a large number of Covid cases and there is a particularly nasty flu season coming up.....which is why we're opening up now and hopefully riding out the Covid wave & keeping hospital numbers manageable before the flu season kicks in.

As many have said about removing restrictions - "If not now, when?"

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

I’d be more judgemental towards drink drivers, dangerous drivers, violent thugs, poor health and safety etc than people who won’t wear a mask if you’re concerned about saving a life. 

drink drivers, dangerous drivers and other road related deaths per year - 1850

violent thugs (homocide) - 800

health and safety deaths at work - 150

[nottingram]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

On this basis will you be wearing a mask and social distancing for the rest of your life?

On that basis I will be happy to assess the risks when I get on a train or a bus, yes. I doubt it will be for the rest of my life but more than comfortable to wear a mask in confined spaces for the foreseeable as I don’t see it as a huge infringement on my liberty.

Equally, will have no problem with anyone who doesn’t. I don’t know their situation so won’t be judging them for their decision ??