The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[maxjam]

39 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Yes it is. And when TexasRam posted details I enquired 'how come'. Seems there isn't a specific answer - so its hard to recommend it as a policy. I do agree with some of your points, but the biggest problem is lack of definitive evidence/data. No point in preparing for a(nother) pandemic of you don't understand how to combat it. Vaccination is the way to go currently imo.

The media and Govt are causing us all to 'suffer' for their extreme coverage of the pandemic. 

"This summer's Download music festival will take place after all, despite having been called off in March. The three-day event is being resurrected in June as a government test event to examine how Covid-19 transmission takes place in crowds.

The capacity will be significantly reduced - down from 111,000 to just 10,000 - but organisers say "moshing will be allowed".

It comes after a number of smaller-scale test events.

Just 15 cases of Covid-19 emerged among 58,000 people who took part in events ranging from the Brit Awards to the FA Cup final. The Download pilot will take place in Donington Park, Derbyshire, from 18-20 June."

So even after data shows evidence of limited transmission an event can only go ahead with 10k rather than 111k and probably even more vaccinated.

I think the best thing that anyone (in power) can do now is to study the pandemic and make sure lessons are learned and we adequately prepare (rather than ignore) for any future pandemic.  Arguing over what has happened is fairly pointless, you can't change the past and there are so many variables that we don't yet understand. 

Would I have personally chosen a different route?  Yes.  Would I have been right?  Dunno.  I think it has always been more a case of who would be less wrong than who would have been right anyway.  And lets not forget that covid hasn't taken its last victim yet, the vast majority are yet to come - nationally through undiagnosed cancers and other healthcare and mental problems etc and worldwide through increased poverty.  The UK has already slashed foreign aid as we look to rebuild our economy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/28/uk-slash-aid-budget-funding-overseas-water-sanitation-projects

In my mind covid has never just been about the daily death toll - but the long term mental, physical and economic problems as well.  Not to mention the increased control and censorship being exerted by the Government and Media and the transfer of wealth to the elites.

Edited May 26, 2021 by maxjam

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

In my mind covid has never just been about the daily death toll - but the long term mental, physical and economic problems as well.  Not to mention the increase control and censorship being exerted by the Government and Media and the transfer of wealth to the elites.

Can't argue with that, it's not something that the general public will see pushed by the media, if at all, until we're out of this pandemic.

[G STAR RAM]

12 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

To be fair you did say "I don't know of 1 single person that has died from it so Im left scratching my head a bit"

So I did not say I think problems are being exaggerated based on my personal experiences.

I gave a specific example of how I believe the media are using figures to continue with their scare stories. 

[Bob The Badger]

31 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

He is sort of implicating himself, but with a few get outs. Like "I should have acted sooner, but if they had listened to me, we would have got other people involved earlier who would have made us act earlier".

There is a nice irony that the cabinet MPs who could just say Cummings is lying like with his Rose Garden statement, can't say that as they were all forced to back him up then. 

Looking forward to when them come clean and admit that happened.

Cummings doesn't seem to be lying this time though, and imagine there are plenty of others who will back up what he is saying/documents exist saying the same.

Cummings is an utter tool, but he's coming across as incredibly plausible and this is devastating for Johnson.

And other than his conversations he has agreed to back everything up with documentation. 

Up until the vaccine I though BJ had done a horrible job.

It was much worse than that.

[Bob The Badger]

22 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Wow - Cummings has literally just said that there is something badly wrong with the system that allowed him to hold such a position of power. And then added Boris Johnson to that same rationale - he's basically saying what we all know. The system is f**ked and none of them have a clue what they are doing

Who was the woman who he said came into the room and said 'We have no plan, I think we are absolutely ducked”.

[Stive Pesley]

23 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I think the best thing that anyone (in power) can do now is to study the pandemic and make sure lessons are learned and we adequately prepare (rather than ignore) for any future pandemic.

Interesting that Cummings has just mentioned solar flares, and that when he asked what the plan was, he was told that there wasn't one - and that a solar flare taking out the power grids would be a much larger disaster than covid

 

25 minutes ago, maxjam said:

In my mind covid has never just been about the daily death toll - but the long term mental, physical and economic problems as well. 

He has made it clear that they absolutely knew that, and consciously decided to take the decisions that they did anyway. 

 

26 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Not to mention the increased control and censorship being exerted by the Government and Media

Full on admission from Cummings that he was giving unauthorised briefings to Kuenssberg at the BBC (her famous "government sources") throughout - and that he cultivated that media relationship after the 2017 election as he thought Corbyn winning the next election would be disastrous

[maxjam]

Without wanting to get to political and despite playing his role down Dominic Cummings is a very clever man. 

Labour are on their knees at the moment and offer zero political opposition - has there ever been a better time to 'air the covid laundry' than now?   

Get it all out there, apologise, sack a few underlings then move on and forget about it all whilst the opposition are sinking faster than the Titanic and despite all the usual Tory sleaze they appear more popular than ever ? 

[Pearl Ram]

I think he’s a very bitter man.

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, maxjam said:

... Dominic Cummings is a very clever man. 

Labour are on their knees at the moment and offer zero political opposition - has there ever been a better time to 'air the covid laundry' than now?   

Get it all out there, apologise, sack a few underlings then move on and forget about it all whilst the opposition are sinking faster than the Titanic and despite all the usual Tory sleaze they appear more popular than ever ? 

Yep, I can't imagine many are truly bothered, who will remember any of this when the next election occurs. Covid and the rest will just be buried.

[G STAR RAM]

27 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

I think he’s a very bitter man.

Get the feeling 'Hancock' is not on his Xmas card list.

[Norman]

'Manufacturing to take place at GSK UK facility at Barnard Castle

GSK has reached an agreement in principle with Novavax and the UK Government Vaccines Taskforce to support manufacturing of up to 60 million doses of Novavax’ COVID-19 vaccine candidate (NVX-CoV2373) for use in the UK. GSK will provide ‘fill and finish’ manufacturing capacity at its Barnard Castle facility in the North East of England beginning as early as May 2021'

 

I love a good conspiracy. This isn't a bad one.  Surely just a coincidence. 

[Angry Ram]

14 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Maybe not - but you're citing the work of conspiracy theorists desperately trying to find figures that play into their conviction that there is some sort of hoax going on. In some cases because they're just not very well and have too much time on their hands, and in other cases so that they can perpetuate their grift and make a tidy sum out of the whole thing by exploiting those who just desperately want to believe

So let's be clear - there is no need for FOI requests to councils for this info

1) because councils only carry figures for council-owned crematoriums and not private 

2) the total figure for 2020 is already published by the Crematorium Society.

 

You won't be surprised to see that there were ~70k more cremations in 2020
 

And that the bloke on Twitter called "John M:Wrong Think Super Spreader" has piped down a bit

 

 

Would be interesting to see if cemetery increased or reduced. Not sure if it was easier to burn rather than bury with the restrictions?

[GboroRam]

12 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Would be interesting to see if cemetery increased or reduced. Not sure if it was easier to burn rather than bury with the restrictions?

I think it's all down to "Big Crema" 

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Without wanting to get to political and despite playing his role down Dominic Cummings is a very clever man. 

Labour are on their knees at the moment and offer zero political opposition - has there ever been a better time to 'air the covid laundry' than now?   

Get it all out there, apologise, sack a few underlings then move on and forget about it all whilst the opposition are sinking faster than the Titanic and despite all the usual Tory sleaze they appear more popular than ever ? 

I'm not sure about that actually. I've never liked him, but he comes across today as someone who wants government to work much better than it currently does.

He's putting the boot into Johnson and friends as his clearly thinks they are hopeless, but I'm not sure if he really has much loyalty to any party.

I imagine he would rather have competent leadership than one that believes in a particularly ideology.

Though his comment about Johnson and Corbyn both being bad choices was interesting. I imagine he now regrets the way Brexit has played out. Competent leadership could have delivered on some of the Brexit promises but he surely has no faith Johnson can do this.

 

[ariotofmyown]

"Cummings says the real problem was the the PM would not come up with a policy and stick to it. He was changing his mind every time the Daily Telegraph wrote a leader on the subject. He was “just like a shopping trolley smashing from one side of the aisle to the other”."

I was always concerned that Johnson would pay too much attention to one particular section of the media.

[CWC1983]

8 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

Who was the woman who he said came into the room and said 'We have no plan, I think we are absolutely ducked”.

From the chief sports writer at the Tomes, Martin Zeigler,

For all you football fans out there - Helen McNamara who said 'I think we're absolutely ******' is the Premier League's new No 2!

 

[Pearl Ram]

Well I like the cut of her jib, with a bit of luck she’ll ruffle a few feathers there.

[Archied]

12 hours ago, maxjam said:

I still don't know anyone thats had covid let alone died from it.  

My lads school was shut a couple of times due to outbreaks and some of his friends track and trace apps went off so they had to isolate (nice excuse to miss school lol ?) but do I personally know of anyone that has actually been tested to have covid or been ill in any way, shape or form? No.

I'm not saying the pandemic hasn't happened and I'm not saying that a lot of people haven't died - but rightly or wrongly I am still firmly of the opinion that 99% of the population could have carried on working/living etc and a more targetted approach could have been used. 

99% of the pandemic has imo has been fear induced by the media - my Mum and Dad still haven't been out despite being double vaccinated. 

Interestingly and despite still being in the tail end of the pandemic in April the ONS recorded the lowest number of monthly deaths on record (records began in 2001);

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/20/death-rate-england-lowest-since-records-began/

I remember seeing the reports of people dropping in the streets in China at the start and my experience of it here has been totaly different, I know a fair number of people who have tested positive and been mildly ill ( wife included) or totally no ill effects whatsoever, like yourself I don’t know a single person who has died of covid or been hospitalised even though I have worked throughout the whole time as have my family, so like yourself I’m also not saying that there’s no deaths but I also believe the whole world being closed down is hard to fathom??‍♂️

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

I remember seeing the reports of people dropping in the streets in China at the start and my experience of it here has been totaly different, I know a fair number of people who have tested positive and been mildly ill ( wife included) or totally no ill effects whatsoever, like yourself I don’t know a single person who has died of covid or been hospitalised even though I have worked throughout the whole time as have my family, so like yourself I’m also not saying that there’s no deaths but I also believe the whole world being closed down is hard to fathom??‍♂️

I think the following graph sums it up for me and adds to your level of concern;

If you mix with largely under 65yo people (certainly those far younger than 65) you're probably not seeing much impact of the pandemic other than what you're getting from the media - that has certainly been my experience. 

I don't deny whats been happening and I've (mostly) followed the guidelines but as far as can tell the pandemic has been happening elsewhere ? 

[Boycie]

Yes but, look how well the vaccine roll out is going, best in Europe.