The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[ariotofmyown]

In other news, who think Cummings will be a lot of hot air today, basically just expanding on his vague tweets?

Or who thinks he's been saving up the shocking revelations for his latest tv performance?  Johnson could be in trouble if there is a real smoking gun over Covid. Confirming the rumours that he skipped early Cobra meetings to finish a book on William Shakespeare to fund his divorce, for example.

[RoyMac5]

39 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I'm not saying the pandemic hasn't happened and I'm not saying that a lot of people haven't died - but rightly or wrongly I am still firmly of the opinion that 99% of the population could have carried on working/living etc and a more targetted approach could have been used. 

You understand how the virus spreads do you? If 99% had carried on as normal the majority would eventually have been spreading it. That is the point. Ask Sweden, could be they got it wrong.

COVID-19 and the Swedish enigma - The Lancet

Quote

The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences' independent review of the available evidence validates WHO's recommendations to keep a physical distance, wear a face mask, keep rooms ventilated, avoid crowds, and practise good hand and respiratory hygiene.

However, not until Dec 18, 2020, did the government give directives to start to translate more of these recommendations into practice including the use of face masks, as the trajectory of rapidly rising cases and deaths continues and intensive-care facilities and the health-care professionals are stretched to the limits in many regions in Sweden.

Now we have vaccines, the situation can be approached differently.

Edited May 26, 2021 by RoyMac5

[maxjam]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You understand how the virus spreads do you? If 99% had carried on as normal the majority would eventually have been spreading it. That is the point. Ask Sweden, could be they got it wrong.

COVID-19 and the Swedish enigma - The Lancet

Of course I do ?

There are many alternatives to lockdown which will inevitably be discussed when the inquiries into the handling of the pandemic begin.

My personal opinion is that a better prepared NHS, a less sensational media and more of a focussed protection approach would have been a better response to the pandemic. 

Of course a lot of that involves a great deal of hindsight - heres hoping we learn the lessons from tha past 18 months or so and are better prepared next time.

[Spanish]

38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I buy a newspaper once in a blue moon.

I read the BBC website every day.

Its hard to avoid articles on social media.

and the Government doing daily briefings fanning the flames of worry

[angieram]

55 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Yes my figures were wrong!

I guess I dont know too many people of the ages most affected as my grandparents are long dead, although my parents both fit into that category.

I only even know 1 person that was hospitalised.

I just seem completely distanced from the whole thing.

I hope it stays that way for you. 

I worked in NHS, so two work colleagues, one younger one older than me, one school friend (my age) and also the father of a friend ( who I didn't count as I don't actually know him, just her.) I would say three of those four have died before their time due to Covid. The other was elderly and therefore it could have been flu or something else, tbh.

It's been real all right and is a horrible way to die. However, there has been a decrease in other deaths due partly to lockdowns, flu for example, road accidents etc. 

Cancer is a big one as while deaths have fallen, it is suspected there is an unseen crisis of people who haven't come forward for early treatment. This could lead to increased deaths down the line. 

I think it's been a tough call for the government to get it right and every decision is a calculated risk.

You mentioned the media's role and you're right about that. For every article saying we're moving out of lockdown too slowly, there is another one wanting borders to be closed again. 

[Stive Pesley]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I don't know of 1 single person that has died from it so Im left scratching my head a bit

To even it out - I know 5. Thankfully no one close, but relatives of friends &  work colleagues

It's like everything - hard to relate to it as real unless you have experienced it, or seen someone you know experience it. The innate human capability of being unable to see further than the end of their nose

 

[RoyMac5]

29 minutes ago, maxjam said:

My personal opinion is that a better prepared NHS, a less sensational media and more of a focussed protection approach would have been a better response to the pandemic. 

But we didn't have that, nor the media - so how would you have dealt with the situation as it was, not as you'd have wished.

[maxjam]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But we didn't have that, nor the media - so how would you have dealt with the situation as it was, not as you'd have wished.

Didn't we undergo a pandemic preparedness exercise years ago?  Then ignored it?

As for coping with what actually happened.  The first lockdown was imo warranted as we were heading into the unknown, following lockdowns could have been prevented with through better governance and adopting a more targeted approach to at risk individuals. 

The media, both social and legacy, have proven that they grown to powerful and need increased regulation.  Hopefully (and I see that Florida have already taken steps to limit the power of social media) as the inquiries into the response to the pandemic get underway, the medias role in it won't be overlooked. 

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, maxjam said:

As for coping with what actually happened.  The first lockdown was imo warranted as we were heading into the unknown, following lockdowns could have been prevented with through better governance and adopting a more targeted approach to at risk individuals. 

Did this actually happen anywhere else and work? 

Edit: as it seems to me that only vaccines will stop covid pandemics?

Edited May 26, 2021 by RoyMac5

[maxjam]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Did this actually happen anywhere else and work?

Dunno, the response in a lot of countries has been either politically motivated or fear driven by the media.  It is impossible to think of the bigger picture (the economy/jobs/healthcare etc) when the media a class are sat at home earning more money than ever publishing a daily death toll and scaremongering.

I highly doubt any government will be removed from office due to future cancer deaths, publish a daily covid death toll however - even now whilst they are negligible and you face accusations of being uncaring/killing people and pressure from the public.

It is interesting to see that several US States have dropped all restrictions however and despite being called out for 'Neanderthal thinking' by Biden their covid numbers are still on a downward trend. 

[ariotofmyown]

Cummings statement is fascinating viewing. Imagine it will be turned into a film/mini-series like Chernobyl.

Seems like there was no proper plan if something like Covid happened.

Number 10 sounds like a very dysfunctional office.

They were going for herd immunity until very late on.

[Stive Pesley]

15 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Cummings statement is fascinating viewing. Imagine it will be turned into a film/mini-series like Chernobyl.

Seems like there was no proper plan if something like Covid happened.

Number 10 sounds like a very dysfunctional office.

They were going for herd immunity until very late on.

Finding this all very confusing - given that it seemed like Cummings was the architect of pretty much all government policy from B*xit onwards, and BJs trusted adviser. Now he's been ditched and he's laying the boot in. Hard to see how he can't implicate himself in all of this

 

 

[RoyMac5]

23 minutes ago, maxjam said:

It is interesting to see that several US States have dropped all restrictions however and despite being called out for 'Neanderthal thinking' by Biden their covid numbers are still on a downward trend. 

Yes it is. And when TexasRam posted details I enquired 'how come'. Seems there isn't a specific answer - so its hard to recommend it as a policy. I do agree with some of your points, but the biggest problem is lack of definitive evidence/data. No point in preparing for a(nother) pandemic of you don't understand how to combat it. Vaccination is the way to go currently imo.

The media and Govt are causing us all to 'suffer' for their extreme coverage of the pandemic. 

"This summer's Download music festival will take place after all, despite having been called off in March. The three-day event is being resurrected in June as a government test event to examine how Covid-19 transmission takes place in crowds.

The capacity will be significantly reduced - down from 111,000 to just 10,000 - but organisers say "moshing will be allowed".

It comes after a number of smaller-scale test events.

Just 15 cases of Covid-19 emerged among 58,000 people who took part in events ranging from the Brit Awards to the FA Cup final. The Download pilot will take place in Donington Park, Derbyshire, from 18-20 June."

So even after data shows evidence of limited transmission an event can only go ahead with 10k rather than 111k and probably even more vaccinated.

[ariotofmyown]

7 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Finding this all very confusing - given that it seemed like Cummings was the architect of pretty much all government policy from B*xit onwards, and BJs trusted adviser. Now he's been ditched and he's laying the boot in. Hard to see how he can't implicate himself in all of this

 

 

He is sort of implicating himself, but with a few get outs. Like "I should have acted sooner, but if they had listened to me, we would have got other people involved earlier who would have made us act earlier".

There is a nice irony that the cabinet MPs who could just say Cummings is lying like with his Rose Garden statement, can't say that as they were all forced to back him up then. 

Looking forward to when them come clean and admit that happened.

Cummings doesn't seem to be lying this time though, and imagine there are plenty of others who will back up what he is saying/documents exist saying the same.

[Stive Pesley]

3 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

He is sort of implicating himself, but with a few get outs. Like "I should have acted sooner, but if they had listened to me, we would have got other people involved earlier who would have made us act earlier".

There is a nice irony that the cabinet MPs who could just say Cummings is lying like with his Rose Garden statement, can't say that as they were all forced to back him up then. 

Looking forward to when them come clean and admit that happened.

Cummings doesn't seem to be lying this time though, and imagine there are plenty of others who will back up what he is saying/documents exist saying the same.

I didn't realise that it was live on TV - watching now and it's fascinating stuff

 

[Eddie]

So we're back to the "I don't know anybody affected, therefore the problems are exaggerated" school of 'thought', are we?

 

[Stive Pesley]

Wow - Cummings has literally just said that there is something badly wrong with the system that allowed him to hold such a position of power. And then added Boris Johnson to that same rationale - he's basically saying what we all know. The system is f**ked and none of them have a clue what they are doing

Edited May 26, 2021 by Stive Pesley

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

So we're back to the "I don't know anybody affected, therefore the problems are exaggerated" school of 'thought', are we?

 

No, who said that?

Hopefully, we are also not back to judging posts on who is posting rather than the content of their posts.

[Stive Pesley]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No, who said that?

Hopefully, we are also not back to judging posts on who is posting rather than the content of their posts.

To be fair you did say "I don't know of 1 single person that has died from it so Im left scratching my head a bit"

Edited May 26, 2021 by Stive Pesley

[Pearl Ram]

Cummings “I don’t remember if I attended any COBRA meetings” Not buying that, I don’t believe a word that comes out of his trap. A full of his own importance, treacherous weasel in my book. ?‍♂️