Mel Morris

[Coneheadjohn]

Good bloke with a big heart.

[leroyoftherovers]

Like alot on here I praise Mel for his investment in our club especially the academy and feel he had the clubs best interest at heart,but at the end of the day he is a businessman and feel he made some bad decisions towards the end it started with Frank which again seemed like a good appointment at the time but we all knew he would be gone if he was any good ,for me that started the side show Frank Lampards Derby County and all that. Thought he had pulled it back with the Cocu appointment but that didn't work because we were already in the mire with ffp and he was totally undermined with the Rooney signing a deal he really couldn't resist and now we are where we are, let's hope his last deal is a good one .

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Not saying you are wrong, but I have some vague memory of only a £3m debt to the Co-op Bank.

The current MSD loan which is also secured against the stadium (albeit not a club asset now) I understood to have repaid an earlier Gabay loan, which was taken out before COVID hit income. Mel I think was struggling, or not wanting, to put more cash into the business well before COVID came along and hit him another blow. Again not 100% certain on that, but someone who studies the Accounts more closely might have more of a clue. That said I still don’t think we haven’t filed any Accounts for a long while.

There was £3m bank loan plus a £15m mortgage on the stadium which MM cleared after he took over.

From memory the mortgage was repayable 1 or 2 years after MM took over, would have to look back to confirm.

The last accounts were filed for June 2018.

There have been documents filed at Companies House re the loans against the stadium and training ground but the amounts are just speculation.

[BramcoteRam84]

30 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

All fair points, but it is difficult to justify the need for a Cat 1 Academy if our first team are playing League 1 football next season. Still personally can’t see that happening, but that is the direction of travel he is leaving us with after inheriting a squad that should have gone up to the Premier.

I was referring to @Spanish post not yours by the way.

[rammieib]

@Asheville Ram

1) Plucking a number out of thin air? Where is your evidence for £3-4m a month. The wage bill is £30m a year at Derby - we still have £10m of TV income - we still probably have £2-4m of commercial income etc. your number is massively out.

2) You have no idea what his access to cash is. When he sold his stake in his computer game, he received £550m. If you look at all his businesses where he is a Director (UK only I can look at), None of them are large corporate companies. Indeed, DCFC is the biggest company. So tell me - where is his other £450 million?

3) Would show up on the accounts.

4) ...

5) Yes in my quick Iphone driven response, I typed debtors instead of creditors. The point remains.

 

Your points are wildly inaccurate.

[Angry Ram]

2 hours ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

1/ So it’s Mels fault for not selecting the free scoring Bryson against QPR at Wembley??!! and not Macs??!! ?

Morris was not the owner then. 

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well we were debt free at June 2018 from memory (will look later).

We know there has been a loan taken out (secured against Moor Farm), no idea how much that is for and obviously this is due to exceptional circumstances that are beyond MMs control.

If I was going to take a guess at annual losses Id say £15m @Ghost of Cloughmay have a better estimate than me.

It's a really tough one to guess for the current season as you have to guess a lot more than usual - lost income due to Covid, income from Bogle and Lowe, compensation for Cocu. In a Covid-free world, we probably would have been very close to breakeven in the accounts. However, there's c£9m in match receipts that will now read £0, commercial and hospitality at £4m will be very close to £0 as well. We won't finish in the playoffs this season which means a bit less coming in as well. Your guess at £15m probably isn't too far off.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Just a quick fact check for everyone, so we can proceed from a position of accuracy:

Mel Morris was not the owner of Derby County in the 2013-14 season that ended in defeat to QPR at Wembley.

[Ghost of Clough]

5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Just a quick fact check for everyone, so we can proceed from a position of accuracy:

Mel Morris was not the owner of Derby County in the 2013-14 season that ended in defeat to QPR at Wembley.

He was appointed as a director on the 23rd May, the day before the final.

[CornwallRam]

28 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It's a really tough one to guess for the current season as you have to guess a lot more than usual - lost income due to Covid, income from Bogle and Lowe, compensation for Cocu. In a Covid-free world, we probably would have been very close to breakeven in the accounts. However, there's c£9m in match receipts that will now read £0, commercial and hospitality at £4m will be very close to £0 as well. We won't finish in the playoffs this season which means a bit less coming in as well. Your guess at £15m probably isn't too far off.

As the academy is a separate company, any idea what happens with it's accounts? Does it just make a huge loss every year, or does it gain some income from the club 'leasing' its players etc?

It used to be the case that a Cat 1 academy required a minimum £2.5m spend (in 2013). I've seen credible people mention it costing £5m a season. Because it falls outside the scope of FFP/P&S, we tend to forget that the funding has to come from somewhere.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Just now, Ghost of Clough said:

He was appointed as a director on the 23rd May, the day before the final.

Not the owner. 

Anyone holding up the closeness of promotion that season as an example of a positive from Morris' ownership rather than the 'awful' previous owners is way off the mark.

[rammieib]

3 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

As the academy is a separate company, any idea what happens with it's accounts? Does it just make a huge loss every year, or does it gain some income from the club 'leasing' its players etc?

It used to be the case that a Cat 1 academy required a minimum £2.5m spend (in 2013). I've seen credible people mention it costing £5m a season. Because it falls outside the scope of FFP/P&S, we tend to forget that the funding has to come from somewhere.

You're right - the funding will ultimately come from its parents companies/owner but there will be a lot of accounts work going on with recharges and so on.

I'm guessing, all speculation, that all staff at Derby County are paid from the same account (I think Players are paid from a different account given what happened in January) and that account is probably a Derby County account. However, internally there will be recharges into the academy cost centres and so on.

Also - Derby County will be putting as much as possible through the academy they can legally get away with. For instance - the chef who makes the sausages (or not) in the canteen will most likely be on the academy books, not the main Derby County books and hence their cost will not be put into P&S. I also guess as much depreciation will be applied onto the Academy as is possible as well for the training ground.

However, bottom line, wherever you charge the costs to, they need paying.....

 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

As the academy is a separate company, any idea what happens with it's accounts? Does it just make a huge loss every year, or does it gain some income from the club 'leasing' its players etc?

It used to be the case that a Cat 1 academy required a minimum £2.5m spend (in 2013). I've seen credible people mention it costing £5m a season. Because it falls outside the scope of FFP/P&S, we tend to forget that the funding has to come from somewhere.

Losses in 16/17 and 17/18 were £5.9m and £6.4m respectively. The academy shouldn't earn anything from leasing players.

[ramit]

[Ambitious]

Mel Morris is one of our own and he's backed us as much as he possibly could've done. He's made some bad decisions and it's snowballed to the point where he's potentially ending his stewardship with us bottom of the league going into December. 

The decisions made oftentimes weren't seen as bad decisions, in fact many of them were seen as very good decisions. I understand he doesn't have a crystal ball and that's life. I have absolutely no hard feelings towards Mel, honestly I really like the bloke, but he's wasted a hell of a lot of money and ultimately that does comes down to the owner. He sets everything in motion and we are where we are because of the decisions made by him. 

[Comrade 86]

26 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Just a quick fact check for everyone, so we can proceed from a position of accuracy:

Mel Morris was not the owner of Derby County in the 2013-14 season that ended in defeat to QPR at Wembley.

 

18 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

He was appointed as a director on the 23rd May, the day before the final.

Director and owner somewhat different things and I'm not sure one day in the former role could allow even the most jaundiced of Derby fans to lay the Wembley fiasco at his door. I should point out out this does not apply to you Ghost as I see you in neither category.

On a general note, I do wonder were it not for this run of bad luck over the last year or two, what we might be saying now about Mel's stewardship. He's had not an ounce of luck throughout his tenure and while some blame can be laid at his door, so can a deal of credit for other achievements and that's before we even consider the millions he has poured into the club.

Much like Cocu, I really wish Mel had seen some benefit from his labours, but it appears that ship has now sailed and his legacy will not be that which his financial and emotional investment perhaps deserved. The bitter vitriol from a small minority however, is frankly embarrassing. I wonder how many would be brave enough to voice their opinions in the manner they do here were they face to face with a man who risked fortunes to try and lift our club to the Premiership. My blocked list grows daily.

[Spanish]

23 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

 

Director and owner somewhat different things and I'm not sure one day in the former role could allow even the most jaundiced of Derby fans to lay the Wembley fiasco at his door. I should point out out this does not apply to you Ghost as I see you in neither category.

On a general note, I do wonder were it not for this run of bad luck over the last year or two, what we might be saying now about Mel's stewardship. He's had not an ounce of luck throughout his tenure and while some blame can be laid at his door, so can a deal of credit for other achievements and that's before we even consider the millions he has poured into the club.

Much like Cocu, I really wish Mel had seen some benefit from his labours, but it appears that ship has now sailed and his legacy will not be that which his financial and emotional investment perhaps deserved. The bitter vitriol from a small minority however, is frankly embarrassing. I wonder how many would be brave enough to voice their opinions in the manner they do here were they face to face with a man who risked fortunes to try and lift our club to the Premiership. My blocked list grows daily.

I don't think anybody disagrees with any of those comments (but I can only speak for myself)

[Premier ram]

The only thing i would level at Mel is the fact that in some instances he let his heart rule his head , he tried hard to get the club he loves into the Premier League and in some respects was let down by a 2 or 3 of his managers when we were potentially geared up for promotion. Thanks for the effort Mel , always a Ram in my eyes

[nottingram]

Good article on the Athletic this morning highlighting some pros and cons.

What is stark is the level of some of his community work or sponsorship of young sporting prospects from the area. 

These don’t really reflect on his tenure as owner but I am loathe to criticise anyone who has contributed to the local area as Mel has. Personally would much rather it this way round than a successful football club ran by someone who didn’t care for the area. After all it’s only football isn’t it ?

[Kingpin]

2 hours ago, nottingram said:

Personally would much rather it this way round than a successful football club ran by someone who didn’t care for the area.

Know what you’re saying but give me Derby County European champions every time ?