duncanjwitham Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Just now, G STAR RAM said: It wouldnt though as they will already have had amortisation charges for the first 4 years of their contracts. All it will do is spread the remaining value over 2 years rather than 1. Fair point, but we still don't know how much those players were valued for at the time. It's all guesswork, or a massive over simplification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Barney1991 said: So over 3 years it’s still under the threshold then Isnt that just the amortisation?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, desirelines said: Does the EFL have a head office? If so, I wonder if a healthy dose of civil unrest/peaceful protest outside their headquarters protesting against their incompetence is in order? Obviously our chairman is no saint, but the EFL have shown again and again that they'd rather make football fans suffer than admit they did anything wrong. They’re all working from home ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 41 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: But even still that is in excess of £30m loss over 3 years before you even begin to factor in any of the other running costs and transfer fees. Yes but from £30m to £79m is a hell of a leap, with one major summer spend and a £40m stadium sale to account for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 According to transfermarkt we've made a net transfer profit over the years 16/17 to 20/21 of £5m. One big summer spend (15/16) is all we've had, and we're still having a legal battle over it in 2021. Big spending Derby my arse. Deej and angieram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnstile Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 15 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Putting his own money in - it’s probably down to Sam Rush actually but MM should have trusted him. Have you missed the word NOT out in relation to rush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Carnero said: According to transfermarkt we've made a net transfer profit over the years 16/17 to 20/21 of £5m. One big summer spend (15/16) is all we've had, and we're still having a legal battle over it in 2021. Big spending Derby my arse. The fees only tell part of the story. I suspect we have been paying daft wages which will be the bigger issue. Edited May 11, 2021 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 minute ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said: The fees only tell part of the story. I suspect we have been paying daft wages which will be the bigger issue. Yes, already discussed this, at there peak they were at £40m with £30m of income. With a stadium sale of £40m in 17/18 and only one big summer spend, how the hell do we fail FFP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, Carnero said: Yes but from £30m to £79m is a hell of a leap, with one major summer spend and a £40m stadium sale to account for. Amortisation of say £20m to £30m. Paying off managers and Rush. All adds up I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Just now, G STAR RAM said: Amortisation of say £20m to £30m. With one large summer spend? £30m spend, say over 4 years = £7.5m per year or £22.5m over 3 years. So that moved us from £30m to £55.5m...still £23.5m short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, Carnero said: According to transfermarkt we've made a net transfer profit over the years 16/17 to 20/21 of £5m. One big summer spend (15/16) is all we've had, and we're still having a legal battle over it in 2021. Big spending Derby my arse. A fair amount of the big sales have been youth players - Hendrick, Hughes and Bogle have gone for £25m+ between them. Where as a lot of the expensive signings have ended up leaving on frees. So the bottom line isn't too bad (with the sales offsetting the signings), but you get a lot of amortisation spread over those big signing's contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Just now, duncanjwitham said: A fair amount of the big sales have been youth players - Hendrick, Hughes and Bogle have gone for £25m+ between them. Where as a lot of the expensive signings have ended up leaving on frees. So the bottom line isn't too bad (with the sales offsetting the signings), but you get a lot of amortisation spread over those big signing's contracts. Yes, but the amortisation is cancelled in part by the "pure profit" sale of an academy player, so it's swings and roundabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eatonram Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 A view point. It is clear that this is a complicated issue and open to interpretation of complex accountancy practices and confusing rules. An independent tribunal, with some expertise in the field, have studied this and found in the Club's favour. Another group of three independent "experts" look likely to reach the opposite conclusion. This in itself surely shows there is a level of doubt and definitely differing possible interpretations, both of the rules (which clearly lack clarity) and also what is acceptable accountancy practice within those rules. Surely the doubt involved must be taken into account with the level of punishment? These are not "matters of Fact" they are "matters of opinion". If it was being heard as a criminal case it would not stand a chance of passing the "beyond all reasonable doubt" test. It isn't of course a criminal court case. All I think we can reasonably hope for is that the punishment "fits the crime" and takes account of the doubt and interpretation issues, rather than the Club and it's supporters being made an example of to satisfy a despotic governing body. Deej, Carnero, angieram and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 38 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Just help me recap what we did was perfectly legal for a business? we asked the EFL if it was ok to do this? they said yes ? what we didn’t do was explain it by painting by numbers? we haven’t ignored our finances as they all catch up with whatever system is used am I correct ? That is my understanding. But it’s not very exciting is it? Plus the punishment for the above is a fine, not points deducted. The Scarlet Pimpernel and Carnero 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Carnero said: Yes, but the amortisation is cancelled in part by the "pure profit" sale of an academy player, so it's swings and roundabouts. Yeah, it just gets spread weirdly over the years. We might be net neutral over the 5 years, but have highs and lows in individual years. The three-year-rolling FFP window is supposed to allow you to cover that to some degree, but our valuation model is punishing us for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney1991 Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Sky saying the punishment likely to be points deduction and transfer embargo. Surely can’t be both as no other clubs have had this. Surely it has to be either fine, points deduction or embargo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Barney1991 said: Sky saying the punishment likely to be points deduction and transfer embargo. Surely can’t be both as no other clubs have had this. Surely it has to be either fine, points deduction or embargo There is a worrying trend in modern society to convict by media before being proven guilty. The media have whipped up almost a baying mob it seems. Colm, angieram, Angry Ram and 7 others 5 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Barney1991 said: Sky saying the punishment likely to be points deduction and transfer embargo. Surely can’t be both as no other clubs have had this. Surely it has to be either fine, points deduction or embargo Sky know no more than any other outlet and have just made that assumption themselves. Their own article says as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 46 minutes ago, desirelines said: Does the EFL have a head office? If so, I wonder if a healthy dose of civil unrest/peaceful protest outside their headquarters protesting against their incompetence is in order? Obviously our chairman is no saint, but the EFL have shown again and again that they'd rather make football fans suffer than admit they did anything wrong. people have said that we’re in this mess because MM antagonised the EFL. So I vote we just take the medicine, even if we think it’s unfair. Just move on, focus on the task in hand: finding good players on frees in the summer. If there is a points deduction, probably we can get it down to 6 - that’s just two wins. And it might be just a fine Part of the problem is that the heavy legal costs have so far fallen on the other clubs so no wonder everyone is pissed off with us. Ken Tram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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