Day Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: That's not what Jamie Ward said. He reckons the whole dressing room atmosphere nosedived. They asked McClaren straight and he changed the subject and refused to discus it further. Eric Steele also says that Schteeve handled it really badly. IMO Mel had no choice but to sack him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: That's not what Jamie Ward said. He reckons the whole dressing room atmosphere nosedived. They asked McClaren straight and he changed the subject and refused to discus it further. Eric Steele also says that Schteeve handled it really badly. IMO Mel had no choice but to sack him. That is water under the bridge though. If the takeover goes through McClaren won't get a look in. If it doesn't and Mel is just treading water waiting for the next offer, maybe McClaren would be the man to get the most out of this squad. If he got us into the play offs or by some fluke promoted, I can't see him being tempted elsewhere this time - older and wiser and all that. Yes it’s “horses for courses” for me. If you assess our current situation we’ve actually got enough players of the right calibre but we’ve got a poor “team”. So good players but poor team. Our “team” is poor for various reasons but, get a decent centre forward and it won’t take much to get these players working as a team. McClaren isn’t the longer-term future but he can inject organisation and flair together in the next few months. All appointments are a gamble but some are less of a gamble than others.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, David said: Almost as crazy as buying phones, tablets and computers that have half the power, a quarter of the usability but twice the price tag, just because of a trendy logo.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: Almost as crazy as buying phones, tablets and computers that have half the power, a quarter of the usability but twice the price tag, just because of a trendy logo.? You need some new material ? Anyway, I was predicting some of the replies. McClaren can do no wrong, the bloke walks on water. Ward and Steele must be telling porkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, CornwallRam said: That's not what Jamie Ward said. He reckons the whole dressing room atmosphere nosedived. They asked McClaren straight and he changed the subject and refused to discus it further. Eric Steele also says that Schteeve handled it really badly. IMO Mel had no choice but to sack him. That is water under the bridge though. If the takeover goes through McClaren won't get a look in. If it doesn't and Mel is just treading water waiting for the next offer, maybe McClaren would be the man to get the most out of this squad. If he got us into the play offs or by some fluke promoted, I can't see him being tempted elsewhere this time - older and wiser and all that. I’m not saying it wasn’t a factor I just don’t think it was as influential as the injuries, it’s not like we had a fully fit team on course for automatics and McClaren personally derailed it. The dressing room atmosphere probably did nosedive because (due to injuries in concentrated areas of the team) the form dropped off a cliff and it became clear Mac would jump to manage in the PL as we weren’t going up. Maybe we’d have shown more fight with the players we did have available if McClaren had handled it better but ultimately I think we’d wouldn’t have gone up regardless because of how heavy those injuries were. Just don’t think it really made a difference to the end result. My real issue with the whole McClaren/Newcastle debacle was when McClaren was rehired and put on the Radio Derby moan-in as a not very well thought out bit of PR. From memory he spent most of the show listening to callers tell him off for the Newcastle fiasco and then apologising for it multiple times. It was a shambles and undermined him from day one. McClaren had earned a chance to manage in the PL again and I personally didn’t feel like he owed me an apology for that. Other fans may feel differently. Agree with you that if the takeover didn’t go through McClaren would be tempting but I wouldn’t want him even in that case. Too much going on with his relationship with the fanbase here, half of PP idolise him and half cant wait to turn on him. Last time I thought it would work because of what he could accomplish on the training ground but there’s too much for him to overcome here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, David said: I honestly can’t wait until he’s tucked up in a rocking chair with a knitted blanket and mug of tea in a retirement home. Worried he might want to re-sign a certain hold-up striker? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBritishMidland Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said: My real issue with the whole McClaren/Newcastle debacle was when McClaren was rehired and put on the Radio Derby moan-in as a not very well thought out bit of PR. From memory he spent most of the show listening to callers tell him off for the Newcastle fiasco and then apologising for it multiple times. It was a shambles and undermined him from day one. Good point. I never really felt Mel bought into Mac 2. He had just sacked Pearson and needed someone quick and Mac was available. I seem to remember he was a guest at a local business forum (or some form of event) the day before appointing him and saying that when Mac was hired to replace NC it was an inspired choice and that was what’s was needed again. I don’t think he fully believed it because: - he gave him an 18 month contract (the shortest Mel has ever given to arguably our most successful manager in recent times prior to his reappointment). This would obviously reduce any compensation should the axe be wielded. - at the “unveiling” Mac was on his own, much like you mention. No new staff (how often does that happen?), no Mel, no Sam Rush. He was left to face the inevitable questions about his departure on his own which doesn’t feel very supportive. - Mel has coveted Rowett for a while. I think he’d talked about before he cam here and the minute he was available and a Mac had his dodgy spell it was a done deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Trav Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 One thing I know for sure is that jozwiak Ibe knight and bielik will absolutely thrive in a mac side. I wouldn’t mind him back personally if it means we stay up this season. He just fits at Derby unfortunately unlike cocu who can’t catch a break. Think mac needs a DOF tho as his transfers weren’t great if I seem to remember. Almost as if cocu should become DOF and mac manage ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Big Trav said: One thing I know for sure is that jozwiak Ibe knight and bielik will absolutely thrive in a mac side. I wouldn’t mind him back personally if it means we stay up this season. He just fits at Derby unfortunately unlike cocu who can’t catch a break. Think mac needs a DOF tho as his transfers weren’t great if I seem to remember. Almost as if cocu should become DOF and mac manage ?? And Ibe would not in an Eddie Howe side. Just saying.... There are other reasons for not going with Howe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresOnlyWanChope Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Cocu has a very good record as manager but something is not right. I think there may be a lot of friction right now. No idea if Rooney rumours are true etc but I don’t see enough desire or risk taking in the final third right now. On the positive side, our best players currently seem to be newer signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I wouldn't go as far as to say Cocu as a VERY good record as manager. I think the jury may still be out on that. He's had success as a Manager in his home country However in his jobs outside of his country he hasn't so faired very well. He was relieved of his duties in Turkey and it looks like it may happen again at Derby. Given the right club,players and league he may well repeat his earlier success elsewhere. Only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 8 hours ago, IslandExile said: And Ibe would not in an Eddie Howe side. Just saying.... Maybe, maybe not. Bournemouth had a reasonable squad and it just didn't seem to be working out for Ibe. Things change. Pearson was picking Will Hughes when he took over at Watford, maybe not the best example, but there are probably other similar scenarios. I doubt we could attract Eddie Howe, but I would prefer a manager in that mould, over someone like Allardyce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandExile Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, europia said: Maybe, maybe not. Bournemouth had a reasonable squad and it just didn't seem to be working out for Ibe. Things change. Pearson was picking Will Hughes when he took over at Watford, maybe not the best example, but there are probably other similar scenarios. I doubt we could attract Eddie Howe, but I would prefer a manager in that mould, over someone like Allardyce. Apparently Ibe criticised Howe for not understanding his mental health issues. Bournemouth did have a reasonable squad, assembled at great cost, and still got relegated. I've seen Bournemouth play a few times, it wasn't always pretty. Not Howe for me. Nor Allardyce. TBH there's not a lot out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritty Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Sadly, it's not worked out for Cocu. He's had awful off the field stuff to deal with, he's had to lose a load of high earning players, and - although he's done ok with developing the academy lads - we're stuck in a rut. I think he's a good manager but it isn't working here McClaren would do better. And he's the best manager we've had since Smith in my view. I'd have him back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 When you look at the names linked with Wednesday with bookmakers: Tony Pulis Paul Cook Nigel Pearson David Wagner Phil Neville Ryan Lowe Danny Cowley Sol Campbell Lee Bullen Eddie Howe Lee Johnson Graham Alexander Sam Allardyce Mark Bowen Carlos Carvalhal Josep Clotet Billy Davies It tells me if we are going to change manager then we would be better off broadening our horizon. I do like Paul Cook; he built a good Wigan team that was destroyed outside his control. We've signed two of his former players and they will be able to give an honest account of his ability. Billy Davies hasn't had a job in 6 years which is astonishing. He's been to the play-offs with every single team he's managed in this division, numerous times in some cases, so despite his personality it does surprise me no one has taken the chance. Not that I'm suggesting hem would be the one. Sam Allardyce would do a job, for sure, he's a great tactician. Not sure it would be the best fit, but he would certainly be able to fix some of our mental errors. I would be interested to see him in the job, I won't lie. He plays extremely fast football - he's certainly not a man who likes the back four knocking it around for too long. I think he would appease some of the older gents on this forum. Ironically, I would take Wayne Rooney over many of those listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ambitious said: When you look at the names linked with Wednesday with bookmakers: Tony Pulis Paul Cook Nigel Pearson David Wagner Phil Neville Ryan Lowe Danny Cowley Sol Campbell Lee Bullen Eddie Howe Lee Johnson Graham Alexander Sam Allardyce Mark Bowen Carlos Carvalhal Josep Clotet Billy Davies It tells me if we are going to change manager then we would be better off broadening our horizon. I do like Paul Cook; he built a good Wigan team that was destroyed outside his control. We've signed two of his former players and they will be able to give an honest account of his ability. Billy Davies hasn't had a job in 6 years which is astonishing. He's been to the play-offs with every single team he's managed in this division, numerous times in some cases, so despite his personality it does surprise me no one has taken the chance. Not that I'm suggesting hem would be the one. Sam Allardyce would do a job, for sure, he's a great tactician. Not sure it would be the best fit, but he would certainly be able to fix some of our mental errors. I would be interested to see him in the job, I won't lie. He plays extremely fast football - he's certainly not a man who likes the back four knocking it around for too long. I think he would appease some of the older gents on this forum. Ironically, I would take Wayne Rooney over many of those listed. Looking at that list reveals the nature of the problem the club face. I would keep Cocu over any of them. It's a very easy, short-term reaction to remove a manager but then what? I have little confidence we would appoint anyone better. But I expect almost anyone we did appoint would cut off the supply of youth into the first team. It's established wisdom in football that you need experienced old heads to get yourselves out of a tricky situation. I'd suggest appointing Allardyce is a repeat of what we've done wrong throughout Mel's rein, going after a manager with a modicum of success or potential but who's style is diametrically opposite to the previous manager (who tried to recruit to suit their style). So we need a new round of recruitment, bloating the squad with old hasbeens and blocking the path for the youngsters who end up being released for nothing. Everything in football is a gamble. Yes it would be a gamble to stick and keep Cocu and believe he can turn things round, but it's also a gamble to twist and go through the whole process of getting someone uninspiring in. Or appointing Rooney! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: Yes it would be a gamble to stick and keep Cocu and believe he can turn things round, but it's also a gamble to twist and go through the whole process of getting someone uninspiring in. Or appointing Rooney! Except when gambling you can look at the fact Cocu has tried everything and still can't get us playing any game consistently as he tinkers! Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 22 hours ago, IslandExile said: Apparently Ibe criticised Howe for not understanding his mental health issues. Bournemouth did have a reasonable squad, assembled at great cost, and still got relegated. I've seen Bournemouth play a few times, it wasn't always pretty. Not Howe for me. Nor Allardyce. TBH there's not a lot out there. Tend to agree. Not enough for a decent shortlist of candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 On 10/11/2020 at 12:29, RoyMac5 said: Worried he might want to re-sign a certain hold-up striker? ? He's said it's Davey nugent or he's not coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Tony Pulis No, going to wednesday thankfully Paul Cook - Not bad Nigel Pearson - unlikely to be keen to work with Mel again, but in our current situation I would give him some merit. David Wagner - a bit "meh" but could perhaps work Phil Neville - Hard pass Ryan Lowe - meh Danny Cowley - maybe Sol Campbell - Not that keen Lee Bullen - meh Eddie Howe - No, i just don't like him and he did spend a lot on being mediocer. Lee Johnson- meh Graham Alexander - meh Sam Allardyce - Pint pot sized wine glass and openly discussing corruption, known for overly pragmatic football, it's a no from me. But would be low risk at least. Cost a lot. Mark Bowen - meh Carlos Carvalhal - Na Josep Clotet - meh Billy Davies - Personal feeling aside, he's been described as "being able to sart a fight in an empty room" and I'd be worried about his dossiers on DCFC Fans posters remarks about him. Yeah, not the most inspiring list. But I just can't help thinking Rooney would also just be a really bad idea, same as I was worried the deal to bring him here would end up being a really bad idea. OK, Mac3, a decent pragmatist or something totally batshit crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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