We are part way through a major squad rebuild with no money

[Curtains]

 

Hashtag in Cocu I trust 

[Alph]

59 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

https://www.tellerreport.com/sports/--fenerbahçe-preses-dismisses-assistants-because-of--bizarre-conspiracy--against-cocu-.BkUFsCoq7.html here's an interesting read.

Cheers. ?

[Jourdan]

I understand the people that are saying that we played well for 60 minutes here, 45 minutes there, and 20 minutes there too, and this is reason enough to be hopeful and to be optimistic.

But it’s difficult if you are not taking advantage of your good spells in games and not creating chances and not making the opposition work.

I could understand it if by playing well for X number of minutes meant we were on the front foot, we were creating chances, we were testing the defence and the goalkeeper, and the opposition were hanging on.

Then yes I think we would all be more positive and more optimistic.

But realistically, when we say we played well for X number of minutes, it means we have stayed in the game but little else. It’s not exactly a high bar, is it?

Cocu needs to demand more of the players. The players need to demand more of themselves. We need to demand more of both Cocu and the players.

[RoyMac5]

5 hours ago, Curtains said:

No our Alex Ferguson was Brian Clough    
 

Shame on you 

 

Shame on Mel!

[Archied]

5 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Have you heard of the concept of paragraphs they're a wonderful thing. 

Where as patronising on grammar not quite so wonderful ?

[RamNut]

44 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I understand the people that are saying that we played well for 60 minutes here, 45 minutes there, and 20 minutes there too, and this is reason enough to be hopeful and to be optimistic.

But......

Aaaagghh @Jourdan stop it pleeeeaaase

i’m sure you’re a wonderful chap. And one of the posters I tend to like for no apparent reason.

but this is like water torture. 

????????????????????????????????????????

[CornwallRam]

2 hours ago, Jubbs said:

https://www.tellerreport.com/sports/--fenerbahçe-preses-dismisses-assistants-because-of--bizarre-conspiracy--against-cocu-.BkUFsCoq7.html here's an interesting read.

As a matter of interest, did things improve once they sacked the three coaches?

[TigerTedd]

On 20/10/2020 at 22:48, IslandExile said:

I came on here at half time to see mostly positive posts about the best half of football we've played this season. Good flowing, attacking football. I posted that I feared it would all be forgotten if Huddersfield clagged a goal. In fairness, it was a good breakaway from their viewpoint. But anyway, the predictable meltdown then ensues.

We get new "Cocu out" threads - why not use the existing ones? Is the thinking the more threads, the more pressure on Mel?

Then, we get the suggestion of McCarthy or Pullis as a new manager. I hope to god that was a joke but then some of the other suggestions make me wonder.

I think what has upset me the most tonight is that a fair minded poster, that I respect enormously, even queried leaving Waghorn and Kazim-Richards on the bench. They are not yet match fit. Lawrence is only just coming back and it was probable that he wouldn't make it through the whole game. It would've been daft to start with two less-than-fully-fit players.

But, in the rush to dig at Cocu, someone even asked why he isn't playing Sibley. Because he's injured. Do you guys want unfit/injured players in the team?

But that made me wonder, how many posters are either not following details like injuries, transfer embargoes etc. I know most people are but when you see comments like that....

So, to sack Cocu now, part way through this rebuild project - in my opinion - would be harsh on him and bad in the long run for our great club.

After years of expensive but failed attempts to get back in the top flight, Cocu is embarking on a long term project. Mel hired him to do that because Cocu promotes youth.

Of course, the academy players need time to develop. It also helps to supplement those academy players with experienced and quality players.

It's difficult to do that when the budget is effectively zero. So Cocu has had to shift out the high earners, some of which I'm sure he'd like to have kept (well Martin) and bring in bargains such as Byrne, Marshall, Ibe, Duncan and Kazim-Richards.

Ibe and Duncan were cheap because they're not yet fit.

That's to go with Lawrence, Waghorn and Holmes. Now we have Rooney out.

So please, appreciate the football that he's trying to play (see first half) against the context of a major overhaul of the squad and a long list of unavailable forwards.

Sure, if we sacked Cocu and brought a new manager in, no doubt results would pick up. But I would argue that's not because Cocu is doing anything wrong but because the injured attackers are fit again.

Please, if you don't already, realise where the club is at.... We have no money. The squad needed a total rebuild. Too many of our forwards have been injured.

Think of the bigger picture. We will reap the rewards if Cocu be allowed to finish the rebuild.

Long post. Thank you for reading it if you stuck through it. I feel the atmosphere on here is becoming a little toxic so I'll try and take a break while you "outers" argue over which hoof ball manager you want.

COYR ?

So what you’re saying is, it’s Nigel Clough mark 2. I remember those days when getting a draw was quite exciting. I’m so glad we’re going back to those days. 

[Jubbs]

15 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

As a matter of interest, did things improve once they sacked the three coaches?

They won 1 out of their next 8. But they hired a Turkish manager around December and results picked up.

[Wolfie]

17 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I understand the people that are saying that we played well for 60 minutes here, 45 minutes there, and 20 minutes there too, and this is reason enough to be hopeful and to be optimistic.

But it’s difficult if you are not taking advantage of your good spells in games and not creating chances and not making the opposition work.

I could understand it if by playing well for X number of minutes meant we were on the front foot, we were creating chances, we were testing the defence and the goalkeeper, and the opposition were hanging on.

Then yes I think we would all be more positive and more optimistic.

But realistically, when we say we played well for X number of minutes, it means we have stayed in the game but little else. It’s not exactly a high bar, is it?

Cocu needs to demand more of the players. The players need to demand more of themselves. We need to demand more of both Cocu and the players.

I agree but that's where the lack of strikers has really hurt us up to now. A good 20/30 mins of play would normally expect to result in a goal. We've looked clueless in the last third because we haven't had the natural/good enough players there.

[May Contain Nuts]

50 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

I agree but that's where the lack of strikers has really hurt us up to now. A good 20/30 mins of play would normally expect to result in a goal. We've looked clueless in the last third because we haven't had the natural/good enough players there.

It's such a simple concept, isn't it?

...but it's seen as an excuse. When does a reason become an excuse in the first place though? Does the validity of a reason / excuse diminish over time even when the reasons & circumstances behind its use don't change (and sometimes even worsen)?

I understand people being fed up of reading about it, but just because they're fed up of it that doesn't alter the facts?

Patience by its nature will only last so long of course, but at times it feels like people heckling a partially sighted man who's trying to cross a busy road without his guide dog, getting annoyed with him for taking so long to do it and shouting at him to just take a chance, be brave and bloody cross already, even if he gets run over in the process - no excuses!

[BondJovi]

I am sure we would all agree that Mac1 was unlucky when he lost Martin and all his DMs. As a team fighting to be champions we dropped right out.

We have all the defence, we don't have the attackers. Those players who score and create. Our last 3 matches reflect that perfectly. 

We used it as an excuse for why Mac1 didn't do as well in his second season. But it isn't valid now?

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, BondJovi said:

I am sure we would all agree that Mac1 was unlucky when he lost Martin and all his DMs. As a team fighting to be champions we dropped right out.

We have all the defence, we don't have the attackers. Those players who score and create. Our last 3 matches reflect that perfectly. 

We used it as an excuse for why Mac1 didn't do as well in his second season. But it isn't valid now?

To be fair,our lack of striking options is partly because of the club's actions apart from Waggers injuries so I see it as mainly self induced.

Mac's issues were entirely injury related.

[Coneheadjohn]

Supporting the Rams is the best entertainment.

[Jourdan]

56 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I am sure we would all agree that Mac1 was unlucky when he lost Martin and all his DMs. As a team fighting to be champions we dropped right out.

We have all the defence, we don't have the attackers. Those players who score and create. Our last 3 matches reflect that perfectly. 

We used it as an excuse for why Mac1 didn't do as well in his second season. But it isn't valid now?

I don’t think it’s quite the same personally.

In 14-15, we were not at our best. But we still scored goals. We were still competitive in games and picking up points. We were still entertaining to watch. And ultimately, we were only 90 minutes from securing a play-off place and the season might have then taken on a completely different feel.

Yes, finishing 8th when you were 1st in February is quite the decline. 

The big difference is that now we have gone from being a top 10 side to being in the bottom three.

We are not scoring goals, not creating chances, not being entertaining, losing regularly and looking miles away from any upturn.

The decline has been much more severe and bordering on indefensible - I think that’s why people are less sympathetic.

[May Contain Nuts]

52 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I don’t think it’s quite the same personally.

In 14-15, we were not at our best. But we still scored goals. We were still competitive in games and picking up points. We were still entertaining to watch. And ultimately, we were only 90 minutes from securing a play-off place and the season might have then taken on a completely different feel.

Yes, finishing 8th when you were 1st in February is quite the decline. 

The big difference is that now we have gone from being a top 10 side to being in the bottom three.

We are not scoring goals, not creating chances, not being entertaining, losing regularly and looking miles away from any upturn.

The decline has been much more severe and bordering on indefensible - I think that’s why people are less sympathetic.

I don’t think it’s quite the same either.

In 14-15  we still had (for most games) Bent & "too good for The Championship" Tom Ince to fall back on, Hughes & Bryson pulling the strings in the middle along with Hendrick. We had  Russell, Ward, Dawkins as wide options - Lingaard too (although I think he's crap) & Keogh to drive out from the back.

Compare and contrast. Of course we played attractive football and scored goals, we just couldn't defend!

We fell from a far higher platform, but we had a far softer landing pad. McClaren had been pretty much unobstructed in reaching that point.

As things stand at the minute, every time we've attempted to climb the ladder someone's come along and kicked it our from under us, and there's really not much cushioning anymore.

 

[Jourdan]

1 minute ago, Coconut said:

I don’t think it’s quite the same either.

In 14-15  we still had (for most games) Bent & "too good for The Championship" Tom Ince to fall back on, Hughes & Bryson pulling the strings in the middle along with Hendrick. We had  Russell, Ward, Dawkins as wide options - Lingaard too (although I think he's crap) & Keogh to drive out from the back.

Compare and contrast. Of course we played attractive football and scored goals, we just couldn't defend!

We fell from a far higher platform, but we had a far softer landing pad.

As things stand at the minute, every time we've attempted to climb the ladder someone's come along and kicked it our from under us, and there's really not much cushioning anymore.

 

It’ll be interesting if the newspaper stories about Mel and Rooney turn out to true.

It would paint recent months of Cocu’s tenure in a different light and add weight to your suggestion that Cocu has faced an impossible job.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

It’ll be interesting if the newspaper stories about Mel and Rooney turn out to true.

It would paint recent months of Cocu’s tenure in a different light and add weight to your suggestion that Cocu has faced an impossible job.

It’s going to be interesting to see how Cocu goes about telling Wazza he isn’t in the team. Can’t see him starting once everyone is fit.....

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

It’ll be interesting if the newspaper stories about Mel and Rooney turn out to true.

It would paint recent months of Cocu’s tenure in a different light and add weight to your suggestion that Cocu has faced an impossible job.

I didn't say it was an impossible job.

Implausible, perhaps, to expect progress in the circumstances and understandable (to a degree) why we've seen a regression.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 minutes ago, Coconut said:

I didn't say it was an impossible job.

Implausible, perhaps, to expect progress in the circumstances and understandable (to a degree) why we've seen a regression.

It might be a reason but it's not an excuse as my gran used to say?