Has Cocu lost the dressing room?

[sage]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's so boring you have to keep commenting? ?

Edit: only 34% think Cocu hasn't lost the dressing room.

You should work for Boris with data twisting like that.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Wolfie20 said:

FTFY

Thanks for the different stat. Still quite a few are confident he has. I quoted those who were confident he hadn't - trying to be positive.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

You should work for Boris with data twisting like that.

Err read the stats. Data twisting? You're not able to read the numbers? Edit it's now 36(ish)%.

[rynny]

16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's so boring you have to keep commenting? ?

Edit: only 34% think Cocu hasn't lost the dressing room.

Obviously you only wanted an echo chamber ?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, rynny said:

Obviously you only wanted an echo chamber ?

Lol. Why comment then?

[sage]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

Err read the stats. Data twisting? You're not able to read the numbers? Edit it's now 36(ish)%.

Good Lord 

That implies 64 say yes.

In fact it is 27%

The rest voted 'what?' Which is effectively no...what are you in about 

Or

Voted 'not sure' because none of us knows which makes the whole premise wild speculation 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, sage said:

Good Lord 

That implies 64 say yes.

Oh ffs no it doesn't. Read the replies, there's plenty who don't know.

[rammieib]

We’re currently on a won one (irrelevant match v Brum), drawn one (Barrow lol), lost 8 record.

Imagine after ten games that was our league position - how would we feel then?

[neil62uk]

Still think @RoyMac5 will last longer in the forum ...than Phil Cocu  tenure at Derby ?

[rynny]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. Why comment then?

I'm sorry, didn't realise that I wasn't allowed to post in here. Could you point me in the direction of a thread I am allowed to post on? 

[nottingram]

13 minutes ago, rammieib said:

We’re currently on a won one (irrelevant match v Brum), drawn one (Barrow lol), lost 8 record.

Imagine after ten games that was our league position - how would we feel then?

Guess it depends on your viewpoint.

If you want to judge a manager on imaginary scenarios then you’d probably not feel great about it. 

Luckily I am going to use my imagination to think most people are more sensible than that.

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 hours ago, Van Rammeister said:

I don’t think so. 
 

Yet again they were fine until the first goal went in. After that, they appear to completely lose heart and panic. I’d like to think that’s down to the inexperience of the young lads, but there is enough experience on the pitch to ensure that doesn’t happen.

I also think that we wouldn’t have capitulated so easily had our fans been in the stadium. 
 

 

You can’t be serious

[S8TY]

4 hours ago, Ramarena said:

I think it’s a fair question actually and I say this as someone whose been/is happy for Cocu to have time.

I’ve already discussed this with Roy on another thread but I think we saw some cause for concern yesterday.

Firstly the significance of the interview after the game hasn’t really been mentioned, it’s actually a potentially big moment in his tenure as he’s basically asking the team to get behind him. 

Secondly was Cocus manner during the game, usually he is reserved and issues the occasional instruction. But yesterday he was openly calling players out on the touch line For not pressing and closing down when Blackburn had the ball, he was very agitated at times.

This has given me cause for concern. I hope I’m over estimating the significance, but I can’t say I’m not worried.

Im hoping he gets a reaction from the players because the next five games could be vital for him.

Yep he was agitated and was probably doing what we were all doing watching ....thinking...ffs press and was heard shouting ...just let them ducking walk through...close them down ....so...what more can he do than tell them what they’re not doing....some on here think he doesn’t have a clue but he does but it appears our players don’t listen ....the only problem I had yesterday was the weird team selection of leaving our best CB on the bench but he knows we didn’t close down and didn’t run and try hard enough ....what does he do next..?...you have to look at the players too....it’s always the managers fault and although he’s not totally blameless it wasn’t him letting BJ shoot without closing him down it wasn’t him who gave the ball away cheaply before they scored....if I was Cocu I’d leave most of that team out next game but he can’t because our squad is hardly overloaded with options at the moment ...I’m not making excuses for Cocu yesterday as I think he’s making mistakes but let’s get one thing clear ...some of these beloved heroes who pull on a rams shirt need to run through brick walls and close players down and earn the right to play ...when a few youngsters have a bit of off form we really do feel it ....Lawrence Bielik Waggy new LB and a decent striker and we have more options ....I’d also tell Mel that only one or two of the academy lads are going to be regulars or have a realistic chance of playing when all are fit ...that’s Bird and maybe Sibley that’s it....Knight and Buchanan and maybe Whittaker’s time will come but not yet we cannot have too many in at the same time but it will happen but they’re not ready yet ...also something has happened with Rooney and Cocu imo because he’s not half as interested as he was......also one last thing ....not excuses but ...having no fans is affecting things ...Rooney I think plays off the crowd and I think us fans also influence things ...it’s like a training session at times and it’s the same for both sides I know but it is affecting games....home crowds especially help ...I don’t think some would’ve got away with a lack of effort yesterday in closing down with a packed PP ...lets hope the players respond but it’s not looking good ...by all means get rid of a manager if he’s clueless but for players to not listen and do what a manger wants is criminal ....just my thoughts 

[Rammy03]

Put spaces in between your points it's easier to read then

[Mostyn6]

55 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Put spaces in between your points it's easier to read then

Fancy reviewing my CV? 

[Dimmu]

I think he lost it when he demanded professionalism after Joiner's gate.

There's a limit what you can ask for.

[StockholmRam]

I said this during match thread. Generally, trying to play Dutch style football with English players doesnt work. 

This pass out from the back, control possesion, move the opposition around and do the total football thing does not work unless you have players who are brought up and raised in the system. We most certainly dont. 

Our players are not bad players, for this level they are quite decent most of them. 

Cocu playing Dutch style at PSV worked great. In Turkey not so great. In the English championship not so great either. Its a familiar pattern. 

And to be honest the Dutch managers in English football have not done that great really through the years. 

Dunno if he has lost the dressing room but they sure do look lost and confused out on the pitch. 

Making Bradley Johnson look like the best midfielder on the pitch really takes some doing.

[Anag Ram]

10 minutes ago, StockholmRam said:

I said this during match thread. Generally, trying to play Dutch style football with English players doesnt work. 

This pass out from the back, control possesion, move the opposition around and do the total football thing does not work unless you have players who are brought up and raised in the system. We most certainly dont. 

Our players are not bad players, for this level they are quite decent most of them. 

Cocu playing Dutch style at PSV worked great. In Turkey not so great. In the English championship not so great either. Its a familiar pattern. 

And to be honest the Dutch managers in English football have not done that great really through the years. 

Dunno if he has lost the dressing room but they sure do look lost and confused out on the pitch. 

Making Bradley Johnson look like the best midfielder on the pitch really takes some doing.

Good post.

The crumb of comfort I’m holding on to is that the system will work when the personnel fit it.

Bielik will be comfortable with it. Lawrence will help Jozwiak. Waghorn offers more goal threat.A new CF will hopefully provide  a better hold up option.

The players need to learn but so does Cocu.

For about ten years now Derby fans have been frustrated because they can see a team that plays well at speed. The Derby way, if it exists, is quick passing football on the floor which bypasses opposition defences.

We have also looked susceptible at the breakdown and at set pieces. I think there has always been a suspicion that we are not great when it gets physical.

Within our squad, we have the players to overcome our past deficiencies and to play attractive football.

I want to see Derby County come onto the pitch like they own the next ninety minutes. Like they believe they are the best in the league. The arrogance, dare I say it, you get from Leeds.
 

That, more than anything else, is what’s missing. It’s also Cocu’s biggest challenge.
 

 

[StockholmRam]

37 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Good post.

The crumb of comfort I’m holding on to is that the system will work when the personnel fit it.

Bielik will be comfortable with it. Lawrence will help Jozwiak. Waghorn offers more goal threat.A new CF will hopefully provide  a better hold up option.

The players need to learn but so does Cocu.

For about ten years now Derby fans have been frustrated because they can see a team that plays well at speed. The Derby way, if it exists, is quick passing football on the floor which bypasses opposition defences.

We have also looked susceptible at the breakdown and at set pieces. I think there has always been a suspicion that we are not great when it gets physical.

Within our squad, we have the players to overcome our past deficiencies and to play attractive football.

I want to see Derby County come onto the pitch like they own the next ninety minutes. Like they believe they are the best in the league. The arrogance, dare I say it, you get from Leeds.
 

That, more than anything else, is what’s missing. It’s also Cocu’s biggest challenge.
 

 

The one who was closest to it was Steve Mac. But he was smart enough to take a few good values from Dutch football and add them into an English style understanding. It almost worked. If it wasnt for that pesky Zamora and his meddling team mates.

[RammingStone66]

I may get ripped apart for this but it feels like the team has had a mental issue for a long time. There were plenty of lazy individual performances and under Lampard and we also had the drinking and bad behaviour that many seemed to believe started under Lampard (possibly before him though).

I know most of that squad has now left the club but there still seems to be this strange inability for players to accept any responsibility on the pitch. I wonder where this comes from, are the players confused by tactics or their individual instructions, or are they just scared to stand up and be a leader. Are they all scared of Rooney and his on pitch authority or is Cocu a tyrant behind the scenes? From what iv heard people saying, the players like Cocu and enjoy training.

We seemed to have had a succession of mentally weak or unruly teams in the last few years and no manager seems to have fixed it. Lampard may have got closest but there was still roumers that allegedly the players knew he had spoken to Chelsea and it all kicked off. Has so many managers being sacked or leaving so often created a feeling of unease and not wanting to trust? 

It's obvious that cocu doesn't want this slow backpassing football and is waiting on certain players to get fit to truly see his vision through, he is unwilling to change to a more suitable tactics in the meantime though, that may be his undoing. But I'm unsure a new manager fixes the squads more mental issues.