This isn't all on Cocu

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Phil has his faults, tactics seem poor, team selection is starting to look bizarre and substitutions are starting to look like something out of the Nigel Clough handbook, however...

The poor bloke can't cut a break. If our current squad was a formula 1 car, it would be a McLaren trying to win a Grand Prix filled with leaded 4 star with 1 missing wheel replaced with a spare off a Ford Cortina.

If we move from front to back.

Striker - First off we are missing the main ingredient, a striker, the focal point. CM left and replacing him should have been top priority, we have played 5 games now and still havent addressed this glaringly obvious issue. Phil's tactics (or anyones for that matter) wouldnt work without a striker. Marriott is still building his fitness and will get there, if he is allowed to play more than 45 minutes that is.

Wingers/number 10 - Jozwiak looks a good signing, he cant finish for toffee but he looks a good player, Ibe we know will be a good player but it will be Christmas by the time he is firing on all cylinders. Sibley isnt the same player at the minute but I believe that is down to the striker/lack of wingers issue. The 1 player we are missing who has been key to the way we play for a long time is Lawrence. His direct way of playing is exactly what we need and that was evident with Jozwiak yesterday, the only player who could turn and run at them and it caused problems. Imagine this with Jozwiak, Ibe and Lawrence.

Midfield - I'm sorry but this is a problem area for me and has been since Hendrick/Hughes/Bryson were broken up. Bird will be great, but is still young and learning. Rooney is winding down and ready to go and live out his days at the donkey sanctuary for retired footballers, Bielik could be a key player when he returns from injury. Apart from these we have Shinnie, Holmes who both get honourable mentions and could be good, but Shinnie clearly isnt a Cocu type player and Holmes needs a sustained period without injury. I honestly think we need 1, maybe 2 midfielders, budget aside, a fit Van Ginkel would be great, a young Barry Bannan type too.

Defense/goalkeeper - hilariously and worryingly this is our most complete section of the team. Marshall a good keeper, Byrne definitely will be a good player, Wisdom and Clarke are both good (if allowed to play), but Dutch Mike at the minute looks a worry, hopefully he will settle. But, our left back spot desperately needs addressing. Listening to Phil saying things will change with the addition of "1 or 2 players", I have confidence left back will be a priority.

I think what my ramble is trying to say is, Cocus tactics are never going to work without all the pieces at his disposal. It is worrying that Cocu seems to have 1 style of play and similar to Mac and Clem, he has no plan B and cant select a system to suit his players, but, we need to see how we look once Cocu has the players at his disposal.

I think a little bit of patience is needed, the next few weeks are going to be very rough indeed, we either sack Cocu for big money get someone else in and start all over again, or stick with Phil's vision and hope to God he gets it right.

This week is massive, for all the positivity surrounding our transfer activity this window, he recruitment team need to pull it out the bag and get us the striker and left back we desperately need.

In Cocu I trust....just

[RoyMac5]

15 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I think what my ramble is trying to say is, Cocus tactics are never going to work without all the pieces at his disposal. It is worrying that Cocu seems to have 1 style of play and similar to Mac and Clem, he has no plan B and cant select a system to suit his players, but, we need to see how we look once Cocu has the players at his disposal.

He's had plenty of time to adjust his style of play to what we do have. Managers don't often have the luxury of having every player they want at their disposal, sometimes they have to make do!

[EraniosSocks]

He’s had a year at the championship Level. The performances from what I see, have not improved. The fitness is shocking to say the least. 
 

You would have hoped after a season of championship football he could have looked at teams like Leeds, with the intensity that they play at and try take something from that. Increase the fitness, improve the desire to win the ball, move it forward and overall try create more chances. 
 

PSV fans warned his style is methodical. Morris hired due to bringing the young players through and you genuinely can’t deny he’s doing that. 

[LeicsRam]

I agree. The thing for me is that when you look at the players receiving the least amount of criticism across these first few games, it’s Marshall, Byrne and Jozwiak. All three are Cocu’s signings and all three will still be embedding and learning. That gives me hope. You’re right about Lawrence and a potential three of Ibe, Lawrence and Jozwiak behind a striker gets me very excited. 
 

Bielik is still to return to that midfield and his stats were off the charts for ball retrieving and defensive duels, so he will act as a shield for the defence. 
 

Finally on a new striker, the other signings I’ve mentioned above give me a lot of confidence that whoever Cocu brings in will be the right man for the position and style he wants. 
 

If we’re still playing in this laboured way with that squad all fit and playing then I’ll start to turn the spotlight solely onto the manager.

[ram1964]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

He's had plenty of time to adjust his style of play to what we do have. Managers don't often have the luxury of having every player they want at their disposal, sometimes they have to make do!

I think he is making do, unfortunately with significant players injured, playing inexperienced players and newcomers this is where we are at. Cocu I am sure will turn us round. A lot of dead wood from the squad now disposed of, encouraging signings and development of players. Things can only get better let's see after ten games or so ,a lot will depend upon who else we bring in.

[Ellafella]

The football is terrible and the results are terrible. The players look worse than they are. Cocu and his crowd of coaches have had 12 months. It’s a results business. I have followed and supported Derby since I was 4 years old. I’m 55 now. Things will not get better under this regime. We are too easy to play against. Stability under this guy will lead us to League 1. We are going backwards and downwards. I don’t like this fact but it’s plain to see and has been for a good while. Cocu has called a few performances “unacceptable” yet nothing changes. What does that tell you? 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

The football is terrible and the results are terrible. The players look worse than they are. Cocu and his crowd of coaches have had 12 months. It’s a results business. I have followed and supported Derby since I was 4 years old. I’m 55 now. Things will not get better under this regime. We are too easy to play against. Stability under this guy will lead us to League 1. We are going backwards and downwards. I don’t like this fact but it’s plain to see and has been for a good while. Cocu has called a few performances “unacceptable” yet nothing changes. What does that tell you? 

You would have to say that the most common follow on for this sort of form is to just get worse,it's very rare for it to improve when the the team reaches this ebb and stops responding and playing for the manager.

 

[minesahartington]

Just now, Ellafella said:

The football is terrible and the results are terrible. The players look worse than they are. Cocu and his crowd of coaches have had 12 months. It’s a results business. I have followed and supported Derby since I was 4 years old. I’m 55 now. Things will not get better under this regime. We are too easy to play against. Stability under this guy will lead us to League 1. We are going backwards and downwards. I don’t like this fact but it’s plain to see and has been for a good while. Cocu has called a few performances “unacceptable” yet nothing changes. What does that tell you? 

It tells me it not in his DNA yoof.

Like our stirring poem says Derby is a hardworking industrious successful committed passionate city. That’s how we expect our teams to try to be at least. 

We now play like an Oxfordshire village team whose DNA consists of getting to the last 16 in a local Morris Dancing competition. 

[Zag zig]

10 minutes ago, ram1964 said:

I think he is making do, unfortunately with significant players injured, playing inexperienced players and newcomers this is where we are at. Cocu I am sure will turn us round. A lot of dead wood from the squad now disposed of, encouraging signings and development of players. Things can only get better let's see after ten games or so ,a lot will depend upon who else we bring in.

Yep, I’m clinging on to all that but it’s hard to be positive when we look a defensive shambles.

[DanS1992]

Another excuse thread. How many of these are we going to have. Yes, has had his fair share of problems, but sorry I don't buy into all this excuse nonsense. The bottom line is that Cocu should be doing better with what he has at his disposal.

[Jram]

I’ve said it before, football is incredibly random and you can’t draw conclusions after limited games, even a season is a small sample size.. with that in mind I’m going for blind optimism- we’ll be top 6 by December 1st. 

In the words of @Sean, @me, screenshot me, boil me alive 

[jimbo jones]

12 minutes ago, DanS1992 said:

Another excuse thread. How many of these are we going to have. Yes, has had his fair share of problems, but sorry I don't buy into all this excuse nonsense. The bottom line is that Cocu should be doing better with what he has at his disposal.

As many as we have for criticising him. Won’t be a thread about anything else on the first page soon.

[Tyler Durden]

I admire your very eloquent passage which obviously you've put a lot of thought into but sometimes it's just impossible to defend the indefensible.

Cocu needs to get some big breaks going his way very, very soon as that's the only manner at the moment things are going to improve and currently I just can't see it happening.

[RoyMac5]

35 minutes ago, ram1964 said:

Things can only get better...

Maybe.

[Justa]

Once again no idea why this man deserves such loyalty.

If he was bald and from Bolton and hadn’t played for Barcelona you’d be calling for his head.

He looks hopelessly out of his depth and this isn’t just an assessment based on this season alone !

[Big Trav]

Just give the man until after the international break. When he’ll actually have a full fit squad 

[ram1964]

59 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

Yep, I’m clinging on to all that but it’s hard to be positive when we look a defensive shambles.

Agree, disappointed with our defensive issues at the moment,dare i say missing Keogh ability to play out and manage the defense.

[RedSox]

1 hour ago, LeicsRam said:

I agree. The thing for me is that when you look at the players receiving the least amount of criticism across these first few games, it’s Marshall, Byrne and Jozwiak. All three are Cocu’s signings and all three will still be embedding and learning. That gives me hope. You’re right about Lawrence and a potential three of Ibe, Lawrence and Jozwiak behind a striker gets me very excited. 
 

Bielik is still to return to that midfield and his stats were off the charts for ball retrieving and defensive duels, so he will act as a shield for the defence. 
 

Finally on a new striker, the other signings I’ve mentioned above give me a lot of confidence that whoever Cocu brings in will be the right man for the position and style he wants. 
 

If we’re still playing in this laboured way with that squad all fit and playing then I’ll start to turn the spotlight solely onto the manager.

What an extraordinarily sensible post.  Enough already!  ?

[ram1964]

1 hour ago, minesahartington said:

It tells me it not in his DNA yoof.

Like our stirring poem says Derby is a hardworking industrious successful committed passionate city. That’s how we expect our teams to try to be at least. 

We now play like an Oxfordshire village team whose DNA consists of getting to the last 16 in a local Morris Dancing competition. 

Oooh Morris dancing? not seen that in a while

[GrimsbyRam]

1 hour ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Phil has his faults, tactics seem poor, team selection is starting to look bizarre and substitutions are starting to look like something out of the Nigel Clough handbook, however...

The poor bloke can't cut a break. If our current squad was a formula 1 car, it would be a McLaren trying to win a Grand Prix filled with leaded 4 star with 1 missing wheel replaced with a spare off a Ford Cortina.

If we move from front to back.

Striker - First off we are missing the main ingredient, a striker, the focal point. CM left and replacing him should have been top priority, we have played 5 games now and still havent addressed this glaringly obvious issue. Phil's tactics (or anyones for that matter) wouldnt work without a striker. Marriott is still building his fitness and will get there, if he is allowed to play more than 45 minutes that is.

Wingers/number 10 - Jozwiak looks a good signing, he cant finish for toffee but he looks a good player, Ibe we know will be a good player but it will be Christmas by the time he is firing on all cylinders. Sibley isnt the same player at the minute but I believe that is down to the striker/lack of wingers issue. The 1 player we are missing who has been key to the way we play for a long time is Lawrence. His direct way of playing is exactly what we need and that was evident with Jozwiak yesterday, the only player who could turn and run at them and it caused problems. Imagine this with Jozwiak, Ibe and Lawrence.

Midfield - I'm sorry but this is a problem area for me and has been since Hendrick/Hughes/Bryson were broken up. Bird will be great, but is still young and learning. Rooney is winding down and ready to go and live out his days at the donkey sanctuary for retired footballers, Bielik could be a key player when he returns from injury. Apart from these we have Shinnie, Holmes who both get honourable mentions and could be good, but Shinnie clearly isnt a Cocu type player and Holmes needs a sustained period without injury. I honestly think we need 1, maybe 2 midfielders, budget aside, a fit Van Ginkel would be great, a young Barry Bannan type too.

Defense/goalkeeper - hilariously and worryingly this is our most complete section of the team. Marshall a good keeper, Byrne definitely will be a good player, Wisdom and Clarke are both good (if allowed to play), but Dutch Mike at the minute looks a worry, hopefully he will settle. But, our left back spot desperately needs addressing. Listening to Phil saying things will change with the addition of "1 or 2 players", I have confidence left back will be a priority.

I think what my ramble is trying to say is, Cocus tactics are never going to work without all the pieces at his disposal. It is worrying that Cocu seems to have 1 style of play and similar to Mac and Clem, he has no plan B and cant select a system to suit his players, but, we need to see how we look once Cocu has the players at his disposal.

I think a little bit of patience is needed, the next few weeks are going to be very rough indeed, we either sack Cocu for big money get someone else in and start all over again, or stick with Phil's vision and hope to God he gets it right.

This week is massive, for all the positivity surrounding our transfer activity this window, he recruitment team need to pull it out the bag and get us the striker and left back we desperately need.

In Cocu I trust....just

Cocu is entirely to blame.  If this was his first pre-season, we would not even be having this discussion but he is a year on in and making the same mistakes.

We were short of strikers last year and he has lost one and left this position until last so it seems. You only have to see that he cannot adapt as a manager.  Take Brighton for example.  Connolly is small and needs the ball playing in behind. It is not rocket science until the other strikers are fit, you play on front foot or out quickly on the break.

Very unfair on Jozwiak after only 2 games.  He clearly can finish from the goals he has scored for Poznan.  He will also struggle, as will Ibe, in a system with a slow build up.  Quick and tricky wingers rely on breaking at speed, when the other team are exposed, not trying to run at the opposition when they are fully set up with 8 or so players behind the ball. I cannot remember a team we have managed to break down when they have sat back under us.  Our main games have been when people have 'gone at us'.

Sibley is being asked to play further forward this season than last.  His main asset is creating pockets of space and running with the ball.  This season he seems to be playing with his back to goal, which does not suit.

Midfield is an issue - that is about balance.  Anybody can see that we need someone nasty or strong in there.   Shinnie should start (he didnt fancy him last year, got his chance and broke up the play well).  The key miss, I agree, is Bielik who is strong, good with the ball and tries to play forward and quickly at every opportunity. Not sure Van Ginkel is right for us right now.

Defence is quite straight forward.  Our best pairing last season was Clarke and Wisdom (when they had a run together).  Clarke should never have been dropped when he is our most comfortable centre back.  To play Wisdom on the left yesterday shows no understanding of the players at his disposal.  He spent most of last season chopping and changing our left back and we are left with one who needs some time and probably a loan spell and the other that needs a time machine to go back 5 years (not his fault as injuries have finished him).

Cocu has some major flaws that are being exposed - inability to change the style (not the system), an unwillingness to press teams, slow/boring build up and concerns about his man management/motivation/discipline (the amount of times when we go one down we seem to then concede again, all of the off field problems where people have clearly taken the 'p1ss' - soft touch? and the increased number of sendings off under him).

The football is terrible.  Under Rowett it was the same but he knew what he was and he kept it simple with what he expected from his players.  Davies (to kick and head).  Carson to keep the ball out (rather than be a sweeper keeper). Jerome to run and hassle. Vydra to shoot.  All the players knew their role and it was clear they were drilled at what they needed.