This isn't all on Cocu

[minesahartington]

Mr Morris will be dancing I am sure.. but it’s not to a tune that Cocu will enjoy 

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Cocu is entirely to blame.  If this was his first pre-season, we would not even be having this discussion but he is a year on in and making the same mistakes.

We were short of strikers last year and he has lost one and left this position until last so it seems. You only have to see that he cannot adapt as a manager.  Take Brighton for example.  Connolly is small and needs the ball playing in behind. It is not rocket science until the other strikers are fit, you play on front foot or out quickly on the break.

Very unfair on Jozwiak after only 2 games.  He clearly can finish from the goals he has scored for Poznan.  He will also struggle, as will Ibe, in a system with a slow build up.  Quick and tricky wingers rely on breaking at speed, when the other team are exposed, not trying to run at the opposition when they are fully set up with 8 or so players behind the ball. I cannot remember a team we have managed to break down when they have sat back under us.  Our main games have been when people have 'gone at us'.

Sibley is being asked to play further forward this season than last.  His main asset is creating pockets of space and running with the ball.  This season he seems to be playing with his back to goal, which does not suit.

Midfield is an issue - that is about balance.  Anybody can see that we need someone nasty or strong in there.   Shinnie should start (he didnt fancy him last year, got his chance and broke up the play well).  The key miss, I agree, is Bielik who is strong, good with the ball and tries to play forward and quickly at every opportunity. Not sure Van Ginkel is right for us right now.

Defence is quite straight forward.  Our best pairing last season was Clarke and Wisdom (when they had a run together).  Clarke should never have been dropped when he is our most comfortable centre back.  To play Wisdom on the left yesterday shows no understanding of the players at his disposal.  He spent most of last season chopping and changing our left back and we are left with one who needs some time and probably a loan spell and the other that needs a time machine to go back 5 years (not his fault as injuries have finished him).

Cocu has some major flaws that are being exposed - inability to change the style (not the system), an unwillingness to press teams, slow/boring build up and concerns about his man management/motivation/discipline (the amount of times when we go one down we seem to then concede again, all of the off field problems where people have clearly taken the 'p1ss' - soft touch? and the increased number of sendings off under him).

The football is terrible.  Under Rowett it was the same but he knew what he was and he kept it simple with what he expected from his players.  Davies (to kick and head).  Carson to keep the ball out (rather than be a sweeper keeper). Jerome to run and hassle. Vydra to shoot.  All the players knew their role and it was clear they were drilled at what they needed.

This seems difficult to refute.

[May Contain Nuts]

Blaming Cocu for the recruitment team so far not managing to land their main striking target is laughable. I mean like, really pathetic and stinks of holding a grudge.

Also if it's a loan, actually even blaming recruitment is a bit harsh considering they've done everything else right this season - you can't force other clubs to lend you their strikers if you haven't got the cash for a loan fee to speed up the process.

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, Jram said:

I’ve said it before, football is incredibly random and you can’t draw conclusions after limited games, even a season is a small sample size.. with that in mind I’m going for blind optimism- we’ll be top 6 by December 1st. 

In the words of @Sean, @me, screenshot me, boil me alive 

I suppose we could hope that every other team gets a 12 point reduction.  Even then, I am not so sure

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, Justa said:

Once again no idea why this man deserves such loyalty.

If he was bald and from Bolton and hadn’t played for Barcelona you’d be calling for his head.

He looks hopelessly out of his depth and this isn’t just an assessment based on this season alone !

He is beginning to look like some of the other celebrity foreign players  mutated to manager who have tried 

management in the Championship and ended up sinking. Given he has managed elsewhere already it seems that it is the

demands of the Championship and English football they don't get. I don't think the presence of Rooney helps him - and yesterday Rooney was a passenger,

[May Contain Nuts]

Edit

 

[LeedsCityRam]

There are definitely mitigating factors with the current situation. The continued absence of Bielik, Lawrence & Waghorn makes this side lightweight and the lack of a proper centre forward further erodes our ability to get a proper platform in the final 3rd. None of these things are Cocu's fault & I dont accept the club had to offer Martin silly money to stay.

In some ways yesterday's debacle may be a blessing in disguise. Whereas Reading could be seen as an aberration & some thought we were unfortunate v Luton, there was no way to dress up yesterday. The total lack of organisation, fight & hard work is apparent and needs to be the number 1 priority to sort. This is Cocu's responsibility.

We need to close ranks & become hard to beat until the injured players return. That means playing our best defenders, removing the pedestrian Rooney & getting energy, dynamism & numbers into the centre of the park. I accept Cocu is an idealist but the situation calls for a pragmatic approach. If we don't, this pattern will continue & the inevitable will happen in a few weeks.

[Marriot Ram99]

I'd give him 1 more game to put a respectable performance in  and get a point on the board. If we play against Norwich in a similar manner he has to go for me, no doubt about it. You can sight all the bull crap excuses under the sun about injuries but he should be doing a duck ton better with what we have. Waghorn and Lawrence are hardly Ronaldo and Messi they won't transform this team on their own, we can't do the basics properly no attacking players will make a difference when your defense is in shambles and your the most boring and pedestrian team in the championship. 

I reckon if we are 5 games in without a point which is highly likely, that will force Mels hand and he will be out. Can't wait until our season is already ruined beyond repair and we have a good chance of watching league 1 football next season, we need a miraculous change next 2 games or we will get battered again and will have the worst start in the clubs history. 

[minesahartington]

1 hour ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Cocu is entirely to blame.  If this was his first pre-season, we would not even be having this discussion but he is a year on in and making the same mistakes.

We were short of strikers last year and he has lost one and left this position until last so it seems. You only have to see that he cannot adapt as a manager.  Take Brighton for example.  Connolly is small and needs the ball playing in behind. It is not rocket science until the other strikers are fit, you play on front foot or out quickly on the break.

Very unfair on Jozwiak after only 2 games.  He clearly can finish from the goals he has scored for Poznan.  He will also struggle, as will Ibe, in a system with a slow build up.  Quick and tricky wingers rely on breaking at speed, when the other team are exposed, not trying to run at the opposition when they are fully set up with 8 or so players behind the ball. I cannot remember a team we have managed to break down when they have sat back under us.  Our main games have been when people have 'gone at us'.

Sibley is being asked to play further forward this season than last.  His main asset is creating pockets of space and running with the ball.  This season he seems to be playing with his back to goal, which does not suit.

Midfield is an issue - that is about balance.  Anybody can see that we need someone nasty or strong in there.   Shinnie should start (he didnt fancy him last year, got his chance and broke up the play well).  The key miss, I agree, is Bielik who is strong, good with the ball and tries to play forward and quickly at every opportunity. Not sure Van Ginkel is right for us right now.

Defence is quite straight forward.  Our best pairing last season was Clarke and Wisdom (when they had a run together).  Clarke should never have been dropped when he is our most comfortable centre back.  To play Wisdom on the left yesterday shows no understanding of the players at his disposal.  He spent most of last season chopping and changing our left back and we are left with one who needs some time and probably a loan spell and the other that needs a time machine to go back 5 years (not his fault as injuries have finished him).

Cocu has some major flaws that are being exposed - inability to change the style (not the system), an unwillingness to press teams, slow/boring build up and concerns about his man management/motivation/discipline (the amount of times when we go one down we seem to then concede again, all of the off field problems where people have clearly taken the 'p1ss' - soft touch? and the increased number of sendings off under him).

The football is terrible.  Under Rowett it was the same but he knew what he was and he kept it simple with what he expected from his players.  Davies (to kick and head).  Carson to keep the ball out (rather than be a sweeper keeper). Jerome to run and hassle. Vydra to shoot.  All the players knew their role and it was clear they were drilled at what they needed.

When can you start?

[MikeS]

10 minutes ago, DRBee said:

He is beginning to look like some of the other celebrity foreign players  mutated to manager who have tried 

management in the Championship and ended up sinking. Given he has managed elsewhere already it seems that it is the

demands of the Championship and English football they don't get. I don't think the presence of Rooney helps him - and yesterday Rooney was a passenger,

Almost a liability, sadly. And this talk of Larence returning and suddenly everything will turn around is baffling. He has yet to show in the seasons he has been here that he can have anything like that sort of contribution and effect on the team with his 1 in 5 (or more) good performances.

[Rammy03]

2 hours ago, LeicsRam said:

If we’re still playing in this laboured way with that squad all fit and playing then I’ll start to turn the spotlight solely onto the manager.

Injuries are part of the game though mate, every team has them. I just worry we won't get to see the 'squad all fit.' You have to get the best out of what you have and what we are witnessing is simply unacceptable. 

[Jourdan]

What worries me is that people are saying that returning players will be the catalyst for improvement.

Bielik, Holmes, Lawrence, Ibe and Waghorn are all capable players, but I think we are placing too much pressure and too much expectation on them to turn things around.

I think each player has qualities we need but I am not sure why people think they’d be immune to what is going on right now and how fractured and uninspired this group of players looks.

The real difference maker moving forward is the manager. No-one else. You can have excellent individuals from one to eleven, but it takes a manager to build a team.

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

What worries me is that people are saying that returning players will be the catalyst for improvement.

Bielik, Holmes, Lawrence, Ibe and Waghorn are all capable players, but I think we are placing too much pressure and too much expectation on them to turn things around.

I think each player has qualities we need but I am not sure why people think they’d be immune to what is going on right now and how fractured and uninspired this group of players looks.

The real difference maker moving forward is the manager. No-one else. You can have excellent individuals from one to eleven, but it takes a manager to build a team.

I think you are way off with this. 
 

It’s obvious to anyone that players like Sibley ,Bird, Buchanan and Whitaker are all struggling .

Thats down to MM insisting he want Academy players in the team 

I knew they weren’t ready to do it in great numbers .

You should introduce them slowly. 

[Shaftesbury st]

3 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Phil has his faults, tactics seem poor, team selection is starting to look bizarre and substitutions are starting to look like something out of the Nigel Clough handbook, however...

The poor bloke can't cut a break. If our current squad was a formula 1 car, it would be a McLaren trying to win a Grand Prix filled with leaded 4 star with 1 missing wheel replaced with a spare off a Ford Cortina.

If we move from front to back.

Striker - First off we are missing the main ingredient, a striker, the focal point. CM left and replacing him should have been top priority, we have played 5 games now and still havent addressed this glaringly obvious issue. Phil's tactics (or anyones for that matter) wouldnt work without a striker. Marriott is still building his fitness and will get there, if he is allowed to play more than 45 minutes that is.

Wingers/number 10 - Jozwiak looks a good signing, he cant finish for toffee but he looks a good player, Ibe we know will be a good player but it will be Christmas by the time he is firing on all cylinders. Sibley isnt the same player at the minute but I believe that is down to the striker/lack of wingers issue. The 1 player we are missing who has been key to the way we play for a long time is Lawrence. His direct way of playing is exactly what we need and that was evident with Jozwiak yesterday, the only player who could turn and run at them and it caused problems. Imagine this with Jozwiak, Ibe and Lawrence.

Midfield - I'm sorry but this is a problem area for me and has been since Hendrick/Hughes/Bryson were broken up. Bird will be great, but is still young and learning. Rooney is winding down and ready to go and live out his days at the donkey sanctuary for retired footballers, Bielik could be a key player when he returns from injury. Apart from these we have Shinnie, Holmes who both get honourable mentions and could be good, but Shinnie clearly isnt a Cocu type player and Holmes needs a sustained period without injury. I honestly think we need 1, maybe 2 midfielders, budget aside, a fit Van Ginkel would be great, a young Barry Bannan type too.

Defense/goalkeeper - hilariously and worryingly this is our most complete section of the team. Marshall a good keeper, Byrne definitely will be a good player, Wisdom and Clarke are both good (if allowed to play), but Dutch Mike at the minute looks a worry, hopefully he will settle. But, our left back spot desperately needs addressing. Listening to Phil saying things will change with the addition of "1 or 2 players", I have confidence left back will be a priority.

I think what my ramble is trying to say is, Cocus tactics are never going to work without all the pieces at his disposal. It is worrying that Cocu seems to have 1 style of play and similar to Mac and Clem, he has no plan B and cant select a system to suit his players, but, we need to see how we look once Cocu has the players at his disposal.

I think a little bit of patience is needed, the next few weeks are going to be very rough indeed, we either sack Cocu for big money get someone else in and start all over again, or stick with Phil's vision and hope to God he gets it right.

This week is massive, for all the positivity surrounding our transfer activity this window, he recruitment team need to pull it out the bag and get us the striker and left back we desperately need.

In Cocu I trust....just

The  comings and goings of previous Managers doesn’t make him the right man and shouldn’t stop us parting ways if this carries on. 
All this talk of we can’t get rid of another Manager is romantically nonsense that could ultimately see us flopping on a massive scale, whilst he achieved at PSV he flopped in Turkey. 
He has a few games left in my opinion to turn this round

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Shaftesbury st said:

The  comings and goings of previous Managers doesn’t make him the right man and shouldn’t stop us parting ways if this carries on. 
All this talk of we can’t get rid of another Manager is romantically nonsense that could ultimately see us flopping on a massive scale, whilst he achieved at PSV he flopped in Turkey. 
He has a few games left in my opinion to turn this round

What with Academy players. 

[Rammy03]

5 minutes ago, Curtains said:

What with Academy players.

Don't play academy players then if they're not good enough. If it's going to prove majorly costly in results then don't do it. And if it's true that Mel wants half of the starting eleven to be academy, just resign Cocu because you can't let this club go down to League one. 

[Grumpy Git]

After 10 minutes yesterday I had seen a Jozwiak Hollywood flick and a Bird effort that Marriott would probably have buried, Blackburn had hardly touched the ball, so I was very encouraged.

Blackburn break, our "defense" was on holiday and in the blink of an eye we are 0-3 down, WTF!

Talk about fragile.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Grumpy Git said:

After 10 minutes yesterday I had seen a Jozwiak Hollywood flick and a Bird effort that Marriott would probably have buried, Blackburn had hardly touched the ball, so I was very encouraged.

Blackburn break, our "defense" was on holiday and in the blink of an eye we are 0-3 down, WTF!

Talk about fragile.

Young players are fragile. 

The flack Rooney and Cocu are getting is ridiculous 

[Jourdan]

15 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I think you are way off with this. 
 

It’s obvious to anyone that players like Sibley ,Bird, Buchanan and Whitaker are all struggling .

Thats down to MM insisting he want Academy players in the team 

I knew they weren’t ready to do it in great numbers .

You should introduce them slowly. 

You can’t expect the young players to lead, to organise, to set the tone for the rest of the team.

It’s not the fault of the young players. You have to give them the right environment to flourish in and a platform to succeed from.

We already have 6-7 experienced professionals who are not stepping up, leading the team, or making a telling contribution.

Lawrence and the others are expected to buck that trend, but can they?

Bird, Sibley and others are suffering because they are being asked to carry the team and make the difference that these experienced professionals ought to be doing.

The young players are collateral damage at this point.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You can’t expect the young players to lead, to organise, to set the tone for the rest of the team.

It’s not the fault of the young players. You have to give them the right environment to flourish in and a platform to succeed from.

We already have 6-7 experienced professionals who are not stepping up, leading the team, or making a telling contribution.

Lawrence and the others are expected to buck that trend, but can they?

Bird, Sibley and others are suffering because they are being asked to carry the team and make the difference that these experienced professionals ought to be doing.

The young players are collateral damage at this point.

Carrying the team.  Yesterday they were a liability.

They have to step up as Rooney says  

I have alway rated Lawrence and I challenge anyone to find any posts I’ve criticized him.