This isn't all on Cocu

[sage]

9 minutes ago, angieram said:

Could you just put it back for 5 minutes so I can read it? ?

You really don't want to see it Angie

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

If we play like this for 10 games, we'll be 8- 12 points adrift and there won't be any cash in January to dig ourselves out or attract any loans.

 

Well so be it. 
 

The players need to step up  and earn their wages. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

5 minutes ago, Curtains said:

So the players from the Academy are rubbish then 

No, but are they all championship standard.  Your very lucky if you get 2 maybe 3 regular first teamers from a couple of academy years.  No-one will convince me we are the new class of 92 and even that team lost two along the way in Phil Neville who was mostly sub to Irwin and Butt sub for six years. That leaves 4 established long term first team starters and they are one of the biggest success stories in academy football.

[Jourdan]

9 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Give it 10 League games and see where we are. 
 

Im not in your negative mindset just yet. 

OK, and if there is little to no improvement, will you come back and accept that I wasn’t being negative?

It’s really difficult to be positive at the moment. Where are the positive signs? If we were playing well and losing or being unlucky in defeat, I could understand it.

But we are getting outworked by any team with a semblance of structure and tactical awareness and it is unforgivable.

Early on last season, I was one of those defending Cocu when we were hobbling along at a point a game. We had some tough results but the margins were fine and there were signs that things could improve.

I wish I could but I find it impossible to defend Cocu at the moment.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

No, but are they all championship standard.  Your very lucky if you get 2 maybe 3 regular first teamers from a couple of academy years.  No-one will convince me we are the new class of 92 and even that team lost two along the way in Phil Neville who was mostly sub to Irwin and Butt sub for six years. That leaves 4 established long term first team starters and they are one of the biggest success stories in academy football.

Hang on MM wants 5 at a time in the first team 

[May Contain Nuts]

7 minutes ago, sage said:

You really don't want to see it Angie

Absolutely not

Utter filth! (Written) scenes of a sexual nature. Google would have a fit!

[Ellafella]

47 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I am a little surprised that you didn’t add that this season you and Edward aren’t going to any games out of protest. I might actually have believed you on this occasion ?

I would actually find it difficult to watch. I would still be going but under sufferance. You know @i-Ram I am the most enthusiastic Derby County fan you could ever meet. I can speak for hours about the Club, its history, matches over the 45 years that I’ve been watching like many of the great supporters on this forum, and I know in my water just how poor the football is right now and how unsuited Cocu is sadly for our Club. I wish I was wrong. 

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

OK, and if there is little to no improvement, will you come back and accept that I wasn’t being negative?

It’s really difficult to be positive at the moment. Where are the positive signs? If we were playing well and losing or being unlucky in defeat, I could understand it.

But we are getting outworked by any team with a semblance of structure and tactical awareness and it is unforgivable.

Early on last season, I was one of those defending Cocu when we were hobbling along at a point a game. We had some tough results but the margins were fine and there were signs that things could improve.

I wish I could but I find it impossible to defend Cocu at the moment.

He needs time.  
 

Have you for once thought how much it would cost Derby and Mel to get rid of Cocu now. 
 

PS I think Cocu might need 20 games 
 

Top half would be an achievement this season  

 

It just wouldn’t make sense to sack Cocu 
 

I would be inclined to get him help rather than sack him 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Hang on MM wants 5 at a time in the first team 

We'll probably get relegated then

[YorkshireRam]

Something that occurred to me yesterday is that Cocu hasn't been able to field his strongest side yet thanks to embargo and injuries. That'd probably look something like this:

                         New ST

          Ibe        Lawrence    Jozwiak

                  Bird              Bielik

   New LB   Clarke    Te Wierik    Byrne

                        Marshall

 

We're another few weeks away from this becoming an option so in the meantime I'd try and add some more dynamism into the side, more of a traditional 433:

                      Marriott
   Whittaker                      Jozwiak

              Knight      Holmes
                      Shinnie

 Buchanan  Clarke  Wisdom    Byrne

                       Marshall

[RoyMac5]

7 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Something that occurred to me yesterday is that Cocu hasn't been able to field his strongest side yet thanks to embargo and injuries.

So every time he can't field his 'strongest' team we let him off an appalling display of defending?

[Jourdan]

3 minutes ago, Curtains said:

He needs time.  

Have you for once thought how much it would cost Derby and Mel to get rid of Cocu now. 

PS I think Cocu might need 20 games 

Top half would be an achievement this season  

It just wouldn’t make sense to sack Cocu 

I would be inclined to get him help rather than sack him 

Obviously it would be expensive to sack Cocu and obviously our finances aren’t exactly blossoming at the moment.

But sometimes you have to see the signs and act before it’s too late.

You say he needs 20 games. But in 20 games’ time, we could be on 20-25 points and in the relegation picture.

Is it a risk worth taking?

[Curtains]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

So every time he can't field his 'strongest' team we let him off an appalling display of defending?

I bet you if Cocu had kept Martin you wouldn’t be doing this. 
 

 

 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Obviously it would be expensive to sack Cocu and obviously our finances aren’t exactly blossoming at the moment.

But sometimes you have to see the signs and act before it’s too late.

You say he needs 20 games. But in 20 games’ time, we could be on 20-25 points and in the relegation picture.

Is it a risk worth taking?

I don’t think there are any guarantees in Football. 
 

If you change manager it might get worse and the Academy players may not get chances etc. 

[LeedsCityRam]

23 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

If we play like this for 10 games, we'll be 8- 12 points adrift and there won't be any cash in January to dig ourselves out or attract any loans.

 

Highly unlikely to be that far adrift in a league that has Sheffield Wednesday, Wycombe & Rotherham in it.

I agree with @Curtains - 10 games (well, actually 11) takes us to the end of November & just under a third of the season gone. It also allows time for the injuries to clear up, a centre forward to come in & settle and Ibe and Duncan to get matchfit. At that point, it would be totally fair to judge Cocu & his record at the club. If the worst happens, it also gives opportunity for a new man to come in, assess the squad & work out priorities for Jan.

Whilst we look an absolute mess, we weren't unlike this last December. Cocu turned it around - not just because of Rooney but also his bravery in giving Bird & Knight starring roles in the team. Yesterday was the kick up the backside everyone at the club needed - I suspect there will be noticeable (positive) differences starting at Norwich.

[Jimbo Ram]

21 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Something that occurred to me yesterday is that Cocu hasn't been able to field his strongest side yet thanks to embargo and injuries. That'd probably look something like this:

                         New ST

          Ibe        Lawrence    Jozwiak

                  Bird              Bielik

   New LB   Clarke    Te Wierik    Byrne

                        Marshall

 

We're another few weeks away from this becoming an option so in the meantime I'd try and add some more dynamism into the side, more of a traditional 433:

                      Marriott
   Whittaker                      Jozwiak

              Knight      Holmes
                      Shinnie

 Buchanan  Clarke  Wisdom    Byrne

                       Marshall

I think Bielik and Holmes together in midfield might be the best option.

[Jourdan]

Just now, Curtains said:

I don’t think there are any guarantees in Football. 
 

If you change manager it might get worse and the Academy players may not get chances etc. 

You’re right. It could get worse.

But a new manager with a better understanding of the mechanisms of Championship football could also come in and things could get better.

You’re expecting an upturn in the next 10-20 games.

I look at our fixture list and every game looks tougher than the last, especially under mounting pressure. I am just not sure where we will get some respite. 

After all, we have not even looked like grinding out a battling draw. Even that would give us something to cling onto.

But even our basics - fight, determination, intensity, organisation - seemed to have disappeared without a trace.

[YorkshireRam]

19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

So every time he can't field his 'strongest' team we let him off an appalling display of defending?

Cocu can't influence bad individual decision making unfortunately. 

What you can criticise is the team selection and yesterday he did get it wrong. I can't fathom though how people are looking at the huge errors we made yesterday and just coming away blaming Cocu?? There's only so much he can say and then its the players responsibility to execute. 

It's like people honestly believe Cocu has instructed them to build slowly, lack intensity and then make howlers at the back...

[May Contain Nuts]

We ground out some battling points just after lockdown

Got a goal or a couple of goals.. partially because the team we put out didn't have 30+ goals removed from it against the ones we've been able to put out this season... an often neglected bit of information.

Lawrence & Waghorn give us a better chance of getting a head start, it's not that we'll miraculously be better off when they're back, but they offer something we don't have 

We put Curtain Davies on for the final 10 minutes, Evans too, Malone even sometimes and we defended against aerial attacks, pretty well on occasions.

People complained about the negative tactics starting once we'd gone ahead though, saying we should have been pushing for more instead. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

13 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You’re right. It could get worse.

But a new manager with a better understanding of the mechanisms of Championship football could also come in and things could get better.

You’re expecting an upturn in the next 10-20 games.

I look at our fixture list and every game looks tougher than the last, especially under mounting pressure. I am just not sure where we will get some respite. 

After all, we have not even looked like grinding out a battling draw. Even that would give us something to cling onto.

But even our basics - fight, determination, intensity, organisation - seemed to have disappeared without a trace.

To be fair,look at Stoke and their recent transformation under O Neill.

Essentially the same squad but now being played to their strengths in a system they can understand and get behind.

Or our 2014 team transformation from being managed by Clough to McLaren.

The manager makes the difference,if they didn't we would just have 11 players running around in a state of chaos and confusion,each doing whatever they wanted.

Errrr,hang on......