Rooney Out

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, Posh Ram said:

if one of Austin/Marriott gets going though.

Don't hold your breath!

[Rampage]

3 hours ago, Posh Ram said:

I'm OP, obviously the title of the thread was deliberately provocative, but I did think he deserved to be dropped after his performance against Blackburn where he looked off the pace.

I wouldn't say Rooney played particularly well today other than the goal, but I've never claimed he didn't still have that bit of extra quality, in situations like today he can be a match winner.

It's still only one game but it's good to have him out of the engine room as he's still a good finisher. Not sure where he'll fit in the side if one of Austin/Marriott gets going though.

With new signings and good defence, Rooney can go back to quarter back

[uttoxram75]

Even at his peak, Ferguson always said Rooney needs a few games to hit match fitness.

He's still got a role to play in this mainly young squad.

 

I really cant see anything other than a promotion season coming up.

[neil62uk]

4 hours ago, Posh Ram said:

I'm OP, obviously the title of the thread was deliberately provocative, but I did think he deserved to be dropped after his performance against Blackburn where he looked off the pace.

I wouldn't say Rooney played particularly well today other than the goal, but I've never claimed he didn't still have that bit of extra quality, in situations like today he can be a match winner.

It's still only one game but it's good to have him out of the engine room as he's still a good finisher. Not sure where he'll fit in the side if one of Austin/Marriott gets going though.

Emphasis on the title was provocative ...my reply was tongue in cheek ...my wording did lead a lot. to be desired  and with hindsight I SHOULD HAVE WORDED IT BETTER 

Rooney didn't play that good today ..but a world class goal got us 3 points ..along with excellent performances by Marshall , Davies , Clarke  

[Srg]

9 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Superb free kick, no doubt about that.

No-one has ever questioned his technical ability and in moments like that, he can be decisive.

That said, I still feel he shouldn’t be central to this team.

An impact player off the bench, sure. Imagine the kicker that comes on for field goals in the NFL.

But at centre forward, central midfield, at number 10, other players get the nod for me.

The pace, the physicality, the intensity - it’s just too much generally speaking.

Don’t often agree with you, but I certainly do here. He was detrimental to the team today and I think the only good thing for us is that Cocu is desperately searching for strikers so we won’t have to watch him walk around losing possession very often. 

[Eddie]

A number of our fans are 'misguided'.

[RoyMac5]

8 hours ago, Srg said:

Don’t often agree with you, but I certainly do here. He was detrimental to the team today and I think the only good thing for us is that Cocu is desperately searching for strikers so we won’t have to watch him walk around losing possession very often. 

Replaced Martin in your affections has he? ?

[Srg]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Replaced Martin in your affections has he? ?

Even Martin offered more mobility and effort than Rooney yesterday, I’ll give you that. 

[Rab a dab doo]

Keep writing him off if this helps to motivate him to score goals like yesterdays it can only help the Rams. 

[ossieram]

I'd like to think Rooney is working with the young lads and helping them with their freekick techniques.

[LeedsCityRam]

Matchwinner aside, I wasn't impressed with Rooney yesterday.

Unlike others on this thread, I still think there's a problem with his attitude. No-one is expecting him to be chasing defenders around but he looked totally disinterested to put them under any pressure at all - their defenders were just strolling by him & the rest of the team had to work even harder to compensate. His touch & accuracy of passing is still an issue & the ball wasn't sticking with him at all. There was the incident first half where we broke & there was a 2 on 3 - Rooney instead of shielding & looking for Jozwiak or midfield runners just threw a foot at the ball which looped well over. In short, it wasn't a very selfless performance & believe the free kick (absolute top quality of course) obscured his overall contribution.

Its clear that Cocu will be looking to finalise a CF deal in the coming days which will mean Rooney can sit deeper - my issue though is the effect that him sitting deeper will have on the team. I think for Rooney to work there (and to avoid a repeat of the Blackburn debacle), he will need someone in there doing his running & closing down. Knight is the obvious candidate but then that negates his box to box threat which seems a shame - it also blocks Bird's return to the team, which runs counter to our philosophy & impedes his development.

Its a difficult situation for Cocu to manage but the team looked much better with energy & bite in the centre of the park. Maybe a short term compromise would be for Rooney to start when we're playing teams who are looking to sit in deep but dropping out of the team when teams come onto us & we need a more solid & energetic midfield. In the long term, I hope there is a strategy for weaning the team off Rooney & that he is on board with that plan - otherwise there is a big potential problem brewing, either in terms of his reaction or the likes of Bielik, Bird or Knight being unable to get into the side.

 

 

[Srg]

9 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Matchwinner aside, I wasn't impressed with Rooney yesterday.

Unlike others on this thread, I still think there's a problem with his attitude. No-one is expecting him to be chasing defenders around but he looked totally disinterested to put them under any pressure at all - their defenders were just strolling by him & the rest of the team had to work even harder to compensate. His touch & accuracy of passing is still an issue & the ball wasn't sticking with him at all. There was the incident first half where we broke & there was a 2 on 3 - Rooney instead of shielding & looking for Jozwiak or midfield runners just threw a foot at the ball which looped well over. In short, it wasn't a very selfless performance & believe the free kick (absolute top quality of course) obscured his overall contribution.

Its clear that Cocu will be looking to finalise a CF deal in the coming days which will mean Rooney can sit deeper - my issue though is the effect that him sitting deeper will have on the team. I think for Rooney to work there (and to avoid a repeat of the Blackburn debacle), he will need someone in there doing his running & closing down. Knight is the obvious candidate but then that negates his box to box threat which seems a shame - it also blocks Bird's return to the team, which runs counter to our philosophy & impedes his development.

Its a difficult situation for Cocu to manage but the team looked much better with energy & bite in the centre of the park. Maybe a short term compromise would be for Rooney to start when we're playing teams who are looking to sit in deep but dropping out of the team when teams come onto us & we need a more solid & energetic midfield. In the long term, I hope there is a strategy for weaning the team off Rooney & that he is on board with that plan - otherwise there is a big potential problem brewing, either in terms of his reaction or the likes of Bielik, Bird or Knight being unable to get into the side.

 

 

Agree with this entirely. 

[ossieram]

14 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

No-one is expecting him to be chasing defenders around but he looked totally disinterested to put them under any pressure at all

It seems a bit pointless chasing defenders on your own when they have easy passes available to at least 2 other defenders along the line.

Unless you have others helping with the press, save your energy for when it's needed to attack.

[LeedsCityRam]

20 minutes ago, ossieram said:

It seems a bit pointless chasing defenders on your own when they have easy passes available to at least 2 other defenders along the line.

Unless you have others helping with the press, save your energy for when it's needed to attack.

Yeah like I said, wasn't expecting him to chase them. But its not unreasonable to expect some movement towards them to put some pressure on to disrupt quality of delivery rather than standing & watching. 

He also wasn't particularly mobile when we were breaking, nor was he using his energy to hold the ball up. I was surprised he lasted as long as he did without being subbed, although in hindsight it looks a masterstroke from Cocu.

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

I thought some of his movement and passes yesterday were great and caused a few problems 

[Mostyn6]

Rooney needs to rein it in a bit. He’s trying far too hard to do too many things. He’s ONE player and should realise he can only play one role at a time. He’ll be fine if he can discipline himself. 

[Will Hughes Hair]

3 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Rooney needs to rain it in a bit. He’s trying far two hard to do two many things. He’s ONE player and should realise he can only play one roll at a time. He’ll be fine if he can discipline himself. 

FTFY ?

[Tyler Durden]

Compare and contrast this thread and the one on Cocu Out.

Latter thread numerous comments about a total lack of respect about Cocu's achievements as an international footballer, playing for Barcelona, winning 3 Dutch titles as a manager and all of this should be taking into account before anyone has the temerity to be able to criticise his current performance as a manager here regardless of his past glories 

Rooney thread, no comments about a lack of respect taking into consideration he is the record goalscorer for the England international team, number of trophies won for Man Utd but posters quite happy to post frank critical comments about his recent performances regardless of his past glories.

For the avoidance of doubt I'm not alluding to name calling in the comments above neither am I stating neither parties performances should be exempt for commentary. When people use the word respect then it should be applied evenly to all parties not seemingly in isolation for one person but not applied evenly to all.

[Will Hughes Hair]

I think the respect issue is part of the same attitude.

Rooney is in the twilight of his career but still has more than enough quality to effect results at this level.  The caveat on that is that to be at his most effective his contribution and fitness need to be carefully managed.  In this respect, that has been either difficult or nigh on impossible since the restart.

First off the squad has been paper thin for a while.  In the run in, multiple players were unavailable and we couldn't even sub Rooney out of games.  I'm convinced this overplaying led to him being injured and missing pre-season.  For goodness sake he was pratting about with SoccerAid (worthy cause though as it is) not much more than a couple of weeks ago.

Yet such is his influence and the paucity of the squad that as soon as he can walk he's back in.  Clearly not fit, but played because we needed his leadership on the pitch.  Yet there's a need to pile in because he can't get round the pitch like he did ten years ago.

It's the disregard for any context around team and individual performances that I find baffling.

[LeedsCityRam]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Compare and contrast this thread and the one on Cocu Out.

Latter thread numerous comments about a total lack of respect about Cocu's achievements as an international footballer, playing for Barcelona, winning 3 Dutch titles as a manager and all of this should be taking into account before anyone has the temerity to be able to criticise his current performance as a manager here regardless of his past glories 

Rooney thread, no comments about a lack of respect taking into consideration he is the record goalscorer for the England international team, number of trophies won for Man Utd but posters quite happy to post frank critical comments about his recent performances regardless of his past glories.

For the avoidance of doubt I'm not alluding to name calling in the comments above neither am I stating neither parties performances should be exempt for commentary. When people use the word respect then it should be applied evenly to all parties not seemingly in isolation for one person but not applied evenly to all.

Cocu's reputation & past success does not make him immune from criticism. I in fact posted just after Blackburn holding him accountable for the poor team dynamic & demanded an improvement. Same principle applies to my observations of Rooney from yesterday.

The reason Cocu's past career was mentioned was a) to highlight he had previous managerial success to draw upon, b) to rebutt the suggestion he wasnt a big enough name to rely on reputation alone & c) in response to some disrespectful name calling/suggestion he was clueless. Rooney's past playing record isnt necessarily relevant as clearly he's on a downward trajectory & likely in his last season as a player.

Would be great to have a period of calm on the forum so hope the above doesnt come across as antagonistic. Just wanted to clarify?