Rooney Out

[Tyler Durden]

12 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

That’s one game. Two in the last 18 games where he has had a meaningful contribution stretching back to July.

If you are paying a player somewhere between £50,000 - 100,000 a week and you’re in the Championship, that level of contribution is simply not going to cut it.

So more fool us for giving him that contract which is where we should be looking, even more so if said contract stipulated he has to play every game.

Lots of folk were more than happy to have the publicity and kudos of having England's leading goalscorer playing for us.

We're getting performances now reflective of where he is as a player at his age so again don't understand all of the bile. He wouldn't have joined us if he was any good. 

[neil62uk]

From top hierarchy  to the subs bench 

No one is beyond cristism , singling any 1 person out is a NO NO for me 

They win , lose , draw collectively as a team 

When the going is good it's good .. unfortunately for us all at the moment it's definitely going BAD ..whom is to blame ...? 

The Owners , Cocu , Rooney  rest of the entire squad ....? 

for me all of them should look at themselves and say WHY ARE WE BOTTOM OF THE CHAMPIONSHIP  

[Jourdan]

22 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

So more fool us for giving him that contract which is where we should be looking, even more so if said contract stipulated he has to play every game.

Lots of folk were more than happy to have the publicity and kudos of having England's leading goalscorer playing for us.

We're getting performances now reflective of where he is as a player at his age so again don't understand all of the bile. He wouldn't have joined us if he was any good. 

How is it any different to the criticism Cocu has been getting?

The reason why both have been singled out is because fans expect better.

The anger, the bile, the criticism is just people processing their disappointment that we have wasted all of our time and energy and money on a dud and paid up to £100,000 a week for the privilege.

Cocu and Rooney are only going to disappoint fans of this club, because the expectation - based on their pedigree, standing in the game, and the perceived idea that they are better than the Championship - doesn’t match the reality.

Rooney gets singled out because he is performing like a League 1 player but on a Premier League worthy salary.

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

How is it any different to the criticism Cocu has been getting?

The reason why both have been singled out is because fans expect better.

The anger, the bile, the criticism is just people processing their disappointment that we have wasted all of our time and energy and money on a dud and paid up to £100,000 a week for the privilege.

Cocu and Rooney are only going to disappoint fans of this club, because the expectation - based on their pedigree, standing in the game, and the perceived idea that they are better than the Championship - doesn’t match the reality.

Rooney gets singled out because he is performing like a League 1 player but on a Premier League worthy salary.

Some posters spewed their bile out on Anya recently too for being happy to sit at home for 4 years on massive wages. Other posters pragmatically looked more at the person who had gifted this huge contract on massive wages as the most culpable person in this whole scenario.

It's like moaning about people getting paid furlough money to sit at home for months on end, they will just turn round and say I didn't ask to be furloughed so jog on. 

We gave all those individuals those contracts so there is no one to blame but the person themself doing this rather than the individual receiving the reward if we haven't got value for money. 

If a player gets transferred for £20 million does this then make him a £20 million player? It's the sum of money that was paid for him but is oft used as a millstone to brandish someone a flop. The amount of money paid has nothing to do with the player whatsoever but a fee negotiated between two clubs. 

Anyhows I've already stated that I think Rooneys passing especially has been very lackadaisical and his willingness to track back after he loses the ball non existent. To single him out due to the money someone was daft enough to pay him is unfair IMHO. 

[sunnyhill60]

Rooney still has something to offer. Who of our squad is currently delivering what they are capable of? 

I don't particularly want Mac to return but he is just one option for a replacement manager who could motivate and get more from the squad than the current clueless one.

[G-Ram]

If he wasn't on the pitch against Norwich we wouldn't have had our first win. 

I still think he has plenty to offer. He has been a world class player & it must be embarrassing to be play here at the moment. From Englands all time leading scorer to bottom of the championship. Cant imagine relegation to league one is how he wants his career to end

Rooney still shows moments of class. Its Really more our own fault rather than waynes that we feel the need to play a 35 yr old for 90 mins most games in a championship season. Unless you're a freak like Ronaldo who has stayed in shape & looks like he's in his mid 20s you probably feel like you've been in a car crash for two days after playing 90min. 

If Rooney is starting he knows he potentially has to manage his game to be fit for a mid week game or last 90 mins. Its alright in the MLS at a slower pace. He's in a physical division where everyone will want a piece of him. How often do the opposition players in get to share a pitch with a great like him. 

In my opinion he just needs to be managed better. Come on second half or play once a week 

 

[Brammie Steve]

If we now have the magic money tree why not:-

Buy the most prolific England International who has scored more goals than even the great Sir Bobby Charlton?

His presence on the pitch will instil fear in the hearts of the stoutest opposition.

It will take three of the opposing defenders to mark him.

He will inspire the rest of the team and bring out the best in them.

He can use his genius to distribute the ball to our forward line enabling them to score at will.

He will take inch perfect corners, free kicks and penalties.

He will silence the detractors who are forever demanding the manager’s head on a silver platter.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

 

[GboroRam]

I wonder - and I know we don't know - do we have the option to get rid of him?

There's speculation around his terms, and whether or not the manager has the option to not pick him, or if his wages get picked up by the club if he's not playing. Would seem to be a wise move from the sponsors - why pay big money if he's not playing?

Likewise if he's on that kind of wonga, and he's sacked, I'm sure the sponsors won't pay him off. It'll be our responsibility to pay off his contract.

All in all, managerially not very good decisions to appoint two expensive members of staff in Rooney and Cocu, and now we're likely over a barrel with them both.

[desirelines]

Let’s not forget that Rooney’s (on-pitch) arrival last season got us out of trouble and close to the playoffs. We might have been relegated last year without him! Or we might not have, but he definitely raised the standard of performances. This season, he’s been disappointing but also responsible for our only win. I don’t like the idea of fielding a player who’s out of form because he’s a big name, but I also understand that if you’re paying a player Rooney’s wages, there’s going to be pressure to get the most out of him on the field. I’m very much opposed to him being fast tracked to become our manager (especially with Cocu’s sacking seemingly imminent). My gut feeling is that Rooney hasn’t got what it takes to become a good manager, but I could be very wrong! 

[angieram]

Do you think anyone has actually had that difficult conversation with Rooney about his limitations on the pitch? 

People defend him by referring to his moments of class, but that's what they are - moments. These should be balanced with the limitations and if the latter outweigh the moments then the net result is don't play him. But has anyone pointed that out to him? 

When it has then surely something could be worked out as to how Rooney can best be used to help us on and off the pitch. After all, his ambition is to manage, he perhaps needs to start taking this aspect more seriously.

He seems like a reasonable guy, probably still has a lot to give on the pitch, but maybe we are relying on him too much to provide those moments for the team? I certainly thought the players stepped up and took responsibility for how we played during the games he was missing. Yesterday I was seeing the same deferral, "give the ball to Rooney" attitude as previously. 

If Rooney isn't on the pitch, the players have simply got to step up themselves and make it work. 

[kevinhectoring]

pre and post lock down is night and day. He's lost form and fitness. He's taking energy and legs from the team and PC can't find a system to accommodate him. His errors take confidence from the young players. Also, he's a very different character from Lampard so it would be very risky to ask him to manage. He's still got the best first touch in the division but he should go

If the new owners spend serious money in Jan he'll certainly be redundant 

 

[desirelines]

27 minutes ago, angieram said:

People defend him by referring to his moments of class, but that's what they are - moments.

Do you reckon he’s the definition of a Luxury Player? Like, he would be perfect to sprinkle that extra magic on a performance if the rest of the team is firing, but when you’re desperately battling for points at the wrong end of the table, he’s essentially become a hinderance? 

[IlsonDerby]

6 hours ago, G-Ram said:

If he wasn't on the pitch against Norwich we wouldn't have had our first win. 

I still think he has plenty to offer. He has been a world class player & it must be embarrassing to be play here at the moment. From Englands all time leading scorer to bottom of the championship. Cant imagine relegation to league one is how he wants his career to end

Rooney still shows moments of class. Its Really more our own fault rather than waynes that we feel the need to play a 35 yr old for 90 mins most games in a championship season. Unless you're a freak like Ronaldo who has stayed in shape & looks like he's in his mid 20s you probably feel like you've been in a car crash for two days after playing 90min. 

If Rooney is starting he knows he potentially has to manage his game to be fit for a mid week game or last 90 mins. Its alright in the MLS at a slower pace. He's in a physical division where everyone will want a piece of him. How often do the opposition players in get to share a pitch with a great like him. 

In my opinion he just needs to be managed better. Come on second half or play once a week 

 

Well perhaps instead of feeling embarrassed he could start playing like a former world class player? 
 

That game last season against Cardiff where he’d been woeful and then he gave the ball to Tomlin and just watched him run up and score to seal the defeat. That was the point I realised that he simply isn’t good enough to play a key part in a team wanting to be aiming for top 6 (obviously w million miles from there now). 
 

I compare him to the same aged Hernandez at Leeds who had this division on strings for season after season until their promotion. He doesn’t look fit and if he can’t get fit or doesnt want to get fit then he needs to retire. I don’t blame him for not having the motivation to get into the shape needed for this league after he’s done everything at club level but retire and don’t cost us x per week to amble around spraying 2 or 3 good diagonals a game plus an occasional fantastic free kick. 

[Norwichram2]

Too me the issue is the way we are bent out of shape to shoe horn Wazza in to the team. We played him at the front first half Sat and it wasn't too bad with the wing backs pushed on. We then changed the formation to play him deep and lost all penetration whilst losing Clarke who was playing well. Steve Nicholson talks about Rooney setting the tempo. He does and we are far to slow and languid as a result

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, Norwichram2 said:

Too me the issue is the way we are bent out of shape to shoe horn Wazza in to the team.

What happened at the start of the season then? 

[Norwichram2]

Is your point that we don't suffer by accommodating Rooney? Not sure I follow? 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Norwichram2 said:

Is your point that we don't suffer by accommodating Rooney? Not sure I follow? 

My point is Cocu isn't getting the best out of ANY of our players, some of whom have more talent than others. Why drop Joz yesterday? Don't say to accomodate Rooney because he could have dropped Waghorn (who scored less points than many, including Rooney but bar Lawrence, according to Sage's thread)?

[Rammeister]

11 hours ago, neil62uk said:

From top hierarchy  to the subs bench 

No one is beyond cristism , singling any 1 person out is a NO NO for me 

They win , lose , draw collectively as a team 

When the going is good it's good .. unfortunately for us all at the moment it's definitely going BAD ..whom is to blame ...? 

The Owners , Cocu , Rooney  rest of the entire squad ....? 

for me all of them should look at themselves and say WHY ARE WE BOTTOM OF THE CHAMPIONSHIP  

I have thought for a while that what has actually been lost at the club is the team spirit/camaraderie that was fostered when Clough Jr was here. We can criticise the football, but at least the players seemed to get on well and work for each other. 
 

Now it just looks like a disparate group; we have the players from the youth team; the Poles; Rooney; the has beens and so on.

I know an ex pro who played for Sunderland literally hundreds of times in the 80s and 90s who told me how easy it was to make your team mates look poor if you didn’t like them; that pass just behind, or slightly too far in front and so on.

I am not saying that’s what’s happening here, but what I do not see is any team spirit.
 

Players know who should be in the side, and who should keep the shirt. Rooney playing every game doesn’t help. He should be used sparingly and when appropriate.

[Jimbo Ram]

8 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

Rooney still has something to offer. Who of our squad is currently delivering what they are capable of? 

I don't particularly want Mac to return but he is just one option for a replacement manager who could motivate and get more from the squad than the current clueless one.

But I think Rooney is instrumental in the lack of energy and slow nature of our play. He can pass but he can’t run. No coincidence that in the games he missed we looked much better, quicker and faster playing at a higher tempo.

[G-Ram]

15 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Well perhaps instead of feeling embarrassed he could start playing like a former world class player? 
 

That game last season against Cardiff where he’d been woeful and then he gave the ball to Tomlin and just watched him run up and score to seal the defeat. That was the point I realised that he simply isn’t good enough to play a key part in a team wanting to be aiming for top 6 (obviously w million miles from there now). 
 

I compare him to the same aged Hernandez at Leeds who had this division on strings for season after season until their promotion. He doesn’t look fit and if he can’t get fit or doesnt want to get fit then he needs to retire. I don’t blame him for not having the motivation to get into the shape needed for this league after he’s done everything at club level but retire and don’t cost us x per week to amble around spraying 2 or 3 good diagonals a game plus an occasional fantastic free kick. 

Henandez has always looked after himself & looked fit where as Rooney has put on weight every pre-season & took time to get into the swing of things even at united. 

If he was a boxer id compere him to a Ricky Hatton. Looks older than he is & a style not built for longevity. Rooneys explosive old style of cover every blade of grass on the pitch isnt something you can do in your mid 30s

I agree he looks unfit. Some players get to early 30s & their bodies give up. Others like Ronaldo look fitter than ever. Some of its down to genetics some down to how you look after yourself. I suspect with Rooney its both. He's never been an 'athletic' build. 

I think he has a good player still. We just manage him wrong. He isn't good for 90 mins twice a week. We either need to bring him on second half to offer something different or manage his games. You hear of some players in their mid 30s struggling to move the day after games due to aches. Age catches up. He'd be better up front in a 10 role linking up play. He isnt an never will be a defensive midfielder

He isnt going to leave, he isnt going to be sacked. His signing of a 100k a week deal isn't is fault but another media stunt to raise our profile by our chairman. Also if he's on an 18 month deal its up end of the season. We might as well use him where we can but use him properly & 90mins every game isnt it. 

He's obviously passed it or he wouldn't be playing for us, but he still has something. There a bigger problems than him in our side & he's being made a scape goat because of his contract.