Rooney Out

[minesahartington]

22 minutes ago, Ramslad1992 said:

You don’t win league titles without being a good manager. We are in a rough patch but comparing him to clement is disrespectful... I don’t think there’s a manager in the world who wouldn’t have struggled with the crap he’s had to deal with since he’s been here, the fact he hasn’t quit is a testament to the man in my opinion.

The fact he hasn’t “done a keegan” shows exactly the opposite 

[IslandExile]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Nope, not entrenched just watching our results.

Yes, they're shocking. The performances are really poor.

But the overhaul - that was absolutely needed - takes time.

Given the ridiculous events of last season and the injuries at the start of this season, it will take even longer.

But, despite many people saying they make allowances for those things, there is now an impatience over the performances and results, as reflected by the never ending stream of digs aimed at Cocu. 

[Millenniumram]

1 minute ago, IslandExile said:

Yes, they're shocking. The performances are really poor.

But the overhaul - that was absolutely needed - takes time.

Given the ridiculous events of last season and the injuries at the start of this season, it will take even longer.

But, despite many people saying they make allowances for those things, there is now an impatience over the performances and results, as reflected by the never ending stream of digs aimed at Cocu. 

Mate, I admire your unwavering faith in Cocu, I really do. But surely even you must think he’s got to be doing better? We can’t keep giving him excuses, he’s got a squad that should be capable of doing better than it currently is. I mean dropping Clarke today proved to be a tactical disaster. I know you can say it’s all in hindsight, but it’s still a mistake. Putting Evans on at half time? The lack of organisation? Cocu has to be taking some responsibility here, whether you think he’s the man for the job or not imo. I’m still not seriously calling for his head, much as I may have made a few Mac jokes. But it’s concerning right now. He’s got to do better with what he has. Otherwise I see no way he can be a success here.

[irobinson]

Th mighty Derby County is bigger than him 

[minesahartington]

Cocu has coped admirably off the pitch. However, on the pitch, where he is paid to deliver at least a hardworking performance or an ability to show some clear improvement he has failed on a now consistent basis.

i am a bit old school and like managers to show some passion at least. They play in his image. Ineffective I am afraid

[DCFC1976]

Reading are top of the league, their manager came in a couple of weeks before the season started, had to self isolate so could not train the team and you would imagine the team is full of players he inherited due to his late arrival. Cocu has had a whole season to coach his team and we do not seem to have improved, if anything we seem to have got worse.

[IslandExile]

14 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Mate, I admire your unwavering faith in Cocu, I really do. But surely even you must think he’s got to be doing better? We can’t keep giving him excuses, he’s got a squad that should be capable of doing better than it currently is. I mean dropping Clarke today proved to be a tactical disaster. I know you can say it’s all in hindsight, but it’s still a mistake. Putting Evans on at half time? The lack of organisation? Cocu has to be taking some responsibility here, whether you think he’s the man for the job or not imo. I’m still not seriously calling for his head, much as I may have made a few Mac jokes. But it’s concerning right now. He’s got to do better with what he has. Otherwise I see no way he can be a success here.

Man, I am first and foremost a Derby County fan. I am gutted every game we lose. I am distraught whenever we don't perform.

Yes I honestly and genuinely believe in Cocu. I think he is building for the long term.

But yes, I agree there are things Cocu does that puzzle me. There are performances where the lack of energy, let alone organisation, concern me greatly.

But, and this isn't to excuse the way they fell apart after the first goal today, I do still think that it is "work in progress" and that everything isn't going to fall into place straight away.

Before anyone says "it's over a year already", we don't need to repeat all the circumstances of the times leading up to today.

Just on dropping Clarke, I'm too tired to look it up but I'm sure@Millenniumram you were one of those applauding the decision before kick off.

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Big Trav said:

His father is in with a lot of clubs. 

He's Jack's caddie? ?

[Millenniumram]

Just now, IslandExile said:

Man, I am first and foremost a Derby County fan. I am gutted every game we lose. I am distraught whenever we don't perform.

Yes I honestly and genuinely believe in Cocu. I think he is building for the long term.

But yes, I agree there are things Cocu does that puzzle me. There are performances where the lack of energy, let alone organisation, concern me greatly.

But, and this isn't to excuse the way they fell apart after the first goal today, I do still think that it is "work in progress" and that everything isn't going to fall into place straight away.

Before anyone says "it's over a year already", we don't need to repeat all the circumstances of the times leading up to today.

Just on dropping Clarke, I'm too tired to look it up but I'm sure @Mill71@Millenniumram you were one of those applauding the decision before kick off.

I wasn’t really applauding it, just saying no one was invincible given the start we’ve had, so it was understandable. I personally wouldn’t have dropped him as he remains our best defender by a mile, but there was an argument that he wasn’t good enough against Luton, so needed a wake up call. Cocu obviously felt that way, but that turned out to be the wrong call. Easy for us to say in hindsight, but I feel pro managers should know more than us.

I get the point it’s a long term plan, and I’m with you that we can’t expect instant success. I don’t think it’s unfair to expect better than where we’re at though. We should be at the stage now imo where we’re not getting hammered at home twice on the spin. Even if we’re not consistent enough to challenge for top 6 this season, I’d still expect at this point for us to be getting some decent performances and wins on the board.

[IslandExile]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I wasn’t really applauding it, just saying no one was invincible given the start we’ve had, so it was understandable. I personally wouldn’t have dropped him as he remains our best defender by a mile, but there was an argument that he wasn’t good enough against Luton, so needed a wake up call. Cocu obviously felt that way, but that turned out to be the wrong call. Easy for us to say in hindsight, but I feel pro managers should know more than us.

I get the point it’s a long term plan, and I’m with you that we can’t expect instant success. I don’t think it’s unfair to expect better than where we’re at though. We should be at the stage now imo where we’re not getting hammered at home twice on the spin. Even if we’re not consistent enough to challenge for top 6 this season, I’d still expect at this point for us to be getting some decent performances and wins on the board.

As discussed in other threads, I'm also concerned with a possible issue between Cocu and Rooney. Rooney was great pre-lockdown but something is amiss now and it's anyone's guess how that's affecting the team.

But yes, to summarise, I'm still a Cocu believer but I am very concerned at the current results and performances. The first quarter of a hour today showed great promise but the fragility and cracks then showed their ugly heads.

[G-Ram]

Wayne Rooney one of the best Manchester United & England forward players of all time.

He's NOT one of the best all time defensive midfielders. 

Rooney & Bird sitting & pretty much playing the same position is negative. It needs to be one or the other in that position not both

He hasnt got the legs to be the Wayne Rooney of old but you'd think if he played further up he'd have the football intelligence to find space & bring others in. 

Overall we have improved with him no doubt but when everything has been going through him in a defensive midfielder position with the game in front of him he slows down the play. Today when he got further forward he did a nice little flick & put someone clean through

Id rather see him further forward where he has played & has been world class. 

I like that he still wants to play football & that he's dropped down to the championship to do so. But he must be looking around thinking what have i joined this is embarrassing. Must be soul destroying to have been at the top, now past your best & getting shown up every week in the second tier 

[tombomb]

I think Rooney has come in to learn how to be a manager under cocu and realised he hasn't got a clue what he's doing and Rooney has lost interest. He knows he's not going to get the headlines now getting Derby promoted and he knows he's learning nothing under this manager. He probably sees this as a complete waste of time at the moment. Cocu is the problem. Not Rooney 

[Dcfcsr92]

6 minutes ago, tombomb said:

I think Rooney has come in to learn how to be a manager under cocu and realised he hasn't got a clue what he's doing and Rooney has lost interest. He knows he's not going to get the headlines now getting Derby promoted and he knows he's learning nothing under this manager. He probably sees this as a complete waste of time at the moment. Cocu is the problem. Not Rooney 

Cocu is the problem I agree but Rooney proformance today was utterly shocking! No passion lost the ball  so many times and didn't work back 3 of there goals have come from Rooney mistakes simple as that he needs to be dropped 

[RamNut]

Rooney just needs to stop playing. His legs have gone. It’s actually sad to watch.

 

[Rammysees]

2 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Rooney just needs to stop playing. His legs have gone. It’s actually sad to watch.

 

I wonder if 32 Red money is linked to Rooney's appearances and in our current cash strapped Times Cocu has to play him? 

[RamNut]

1 minute ago, Rammysees said:

I wonder if 32 Red money is linked to Rooney's appearances and in our current cash strapped Times Cocu has to play him? 

We are going to have to sit down with Wayne and tear up the contract.

[Jack Willow]

Rooney looks worn out, but the problem is his contract which stipulates that he has to play each and every game, if he isn't injured or unavailable.

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Jack Willow said:

Rooney looks worn out, but the problem is his contract which stipulates that he has to play each and every game, if he isn't injured or unavailable.

You've seen his contract? Wow!

When Rooney came in last season it was acknowledged that he needed to play games to get match fit. That is where we are with him now. Plus I think it's obvious he perhaps doesn't rate Cocu as a manager - afterall he's played for some decent ones!

[LeicsRam]

8 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Mate, I admire your unwavering faith in Cocu, I really do. But surely even you must think he’s got to be doing better? We can’t keep giving him excuses, he’s got a squad that should be capable of doing better than it currently is. I mean dropping Clarke today proved to be a tactical disaster. I know you can say it’s all in hindsight, but it’s still a mistake. Putting Evans on at half time? The lack of organisation? Cocu has to be taking some responsibility here, whether you think he’s the man for the job or not imo. I’m still not seriously calling for his head, much as I may have made a few Mac jokes. But it’s concerning right now. He’s got to do better with what he has. Otherwise I see no way he can be a success here.

For me there has to be a distinction between ‘Cocu needs to be doing better’ and the sort of hyperbolic ‘Sack him and get Allardyce on the blower’ that always seems to fly around, though not saying you’ve said that! 
 

Cocu’s selection today was odd, he’s owned up to that and it didn’t work. Results have been poor, performances laboured.
 

Is Cocu doing brilliantly in this exact moment? No. Is he still a good manager with a sustainable long-term vision for the club? Yes. 

[Jack Willow]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You've seen his contract? Wow!

When Rooney came in last season it was acknowledged that he needed to play games to get match fit. That is where we are with him now. Plus I think it's obvious he perhaps doesn't rate Cocu as a manager - afterall he's played for some decent ones!

No, I didn't see the details of his contract, but I know he mentioned it himself.