View From The Outside (20/21)

[Tamworthram]

8 hours ago, G-Ram said:

Brilliant. Great to see most fans of other clubs rattled by this ? 

I wouldn’t assume “most” fans of other clubs are rattled by this. Don’t forget, it only takes a handful of people to post similar comments on Twitter and forums to make it look like a lot. However, any that are probably haven’t bothered to read the findings or familiarise themselves with the facts.

[RadioactiveWaste]

55 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I wouldn’t assume “most” fans of other clubs are rattled by this. Don’t forget, it only takes a handful of people to post similar comments on Twitter and forums to make it look like a lot. However, any that are probably haven’t bothered to read the findings or familiarise themselves with the facts.

Or even that everything we did was examined and vindicated, we did not get out of it on a technicality.

[LazloW]

6 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Or even that everything we did was examined and vindicated, we did not get out of it on a technicality.

That’s one of the more striking things to me as well. I’d always thought it was clever old Mel exploiting a loophole, but actually there was really no loophole at all. The rules seemingly explicitly allow you to do what we did and we did it.

Obviously, it would be better if we hadn’t needed to sell the ground at all, but it’s an asset and sometimes they have to be sweat.

[RoyMac5]

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid%3D379782

"Daily Mail discloses remarkably high severance pay for Cocu." Some interesting points about Cocu, Dutch coaches and their system, in the comments at the bottom of the article.

Quote

DMS: November 9, 2020 at 11:17 AM

Cocu's position has of course become untenable, I can't imagine that he won't be fired.

Perhaps the Knvb should stop giving all successful former football players a more or less free trainer's diploma because none of them (especially outside the premier league) make anything of it.

[Alph]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid%3D379782

"Daily Mail discloses remarkably high severance pay for Cocu." Some interesting points about Cocu, Dutch coaches and their system, in the comments at the bottom of the article.

Especially outside the PL?

I would have thought LVG and De Boer would be the most high profile examples of Dutch principals being rattled by good old fashioned physicality? 

[Jubbs]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

"Daily Mail discloses remarkably high severance pay for Cocu." Some interesting points about Cocu, Dutch coaches and their system, in the comments at the bottom of the article.

Daily Mail confuse me. They said in an article that he's on £90k a week. Now they're saying it'll cost £4m to sack him. The math behind this, now I think the math is fine, but maybe not how sackings work (I'm assuming you pay the rest of his contract out, I dunno?), but if he's on £90k a week, I worked it out to cost around £12m to pay the rest of his contract. If it's going to cost £4m to sack him, that suggests he's on around £29k a week, so which is it?

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Especially outside the PL?

I would have thought LVG and De Boer would be the most high profile examples of Dutch principals being rattled by good old fashioned physicality? 

I think there was that too in the thread. The (small) consensus seemed to be that Dutch coaches are all theory, straight-jacketed by it even, little ability to be flexible?

[Wolfie]

19 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Daily Mail confuse me. They said in an article that he's on £90k a week. Now they're saying it'll cost £4m to sack him. The math behind this, now I think the math is fine, but maybe not how sackings work (I'm assuming you pay the rest of his contract out, I dunno?), but if he's on £90k a week, I worked it out to cost around £12m to pay the rest of his contract. If it's going to cost £4m to sack him, that suggests he's on around £29k a week, so which is it?

Who's to say we have to pay off his entire contract if he gets the sack?. Nobody knows what specific clauses there are in there.

[tomsdubs]

Usually don't they negotiate a clause for the amount of term payable if they get sacked? Like a years wages?

[Jubbs]

9 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said:

Who's to say we have to pay off his entire contract if he gets the sack?. Nobody knows what specific clauses there are in there.

I literally said in my post, going on if we have to pay him off, I said I don't know how sackings work regarding pay-offs.

But I guarantee he is on nowhere near £90k a week.

[Topram]

There’s no way we gave Cocu a 4 year 90k a week deal 

[nottingram]

44 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Daily Mail confuse me. They said in an article that he's on £90k a week. Now they're saying it'll cost £4m to sack him. The math behind this, now I think the math is fine, but maybe not how sackings work (I'm assuming you pay the rest of his contract out, I dunno?), but if he's on £90k a week, I worked it out to cost around £12m to pay the rest of his contract. If it's going to cost £4m to sack him, that suggests he's on around £29k a week, so which is it?

I might be wrong (I’ve read the article once and refuse to give that freak Matt Hughes two clicks) but does the article not even state we are liable for 12 months pay off which would be ~4.7m at 90k per week, just for Cocu? Think he’s pulling figures out of his arse

Anyway it has been well established by now that this Daily Mail writer, who only ever seems to write about Derby, has no idea. He’s already given us a 21 point deduction and has sacked Cocu five times!

[Ambitious]

It would've made him the 8th highest paid manager in the country at the time. Now 11th. It would mean he earns almost double what Sean Dyche earns, triple what Dean Smith earns at Villa. 

It's borderline insanity to think that could even remotely be true.

 

[AutoWindscreens]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid%3D379782

"Daily Mail discloses remarkably high severance pay for Cocu." Some interesting points about Cocu, Dutch coaches and their system, in the comments at the bottom of the article.

And a rating of MTW that confirms the sad evidence of our own eyes: "... and then they come with Wierik. If that is the level you can attract then you know you are not going to make it in the Championship."

 

[Mckram]

1 hour ago, Jubbs said:

Daily Mail confuse me. They said in an article that he's on £90k a week. Now they're saying it'll cost £4m to sack him. The math behind this, now I think the math is fine, but maybe not how sackings work (I'm assuming you pay the rest of his contract out, I dunno?), but if he's on £90k a week, I worked it out to cost around £12m to pay the rest of his contract. If it's going to cost £4m to sack him, that suggests he's on around £29k a week, so which is it?

I’m fairly certain I read somewhere (probably that Daily Mail article) that to sack him we just have to pay a years salary, which would fit in with the £90k (hence why I think I read it in the Daily Mail article and it’s all probably a load of rubbish!).

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

8 minutes ago, AutoWindscreens said:

And a rating of MTW that confirms the sad evidence of our own eyes: "... and then they come with Wierik. If that is the level you can attract then you know you are not going to make it in the Championship."

 

This Marseille fan commenting should probably be on here.

What nonsense. Players like Bielik, Ibe, Lawrence and Rooney are of course also ridiculously bad players by Championship terms?. Derby just has a roster that should be able to finish in the top 10. Neither is this Rotherham or Wycombe. Derby County is simply one of the greatest clubs in the Championship. Cocu just fails massively

This Dutch bloke as well

Ibe used to sit on the bench at Bournemouth, Rooney is on his way out. They don't play at Derby County for nothing. Now I'm not saying that Cocu is doing it properly or anything like that, but you shouldn't want to coach these kinds of clubs at all. It's all very close together in the Championship. One season you can become 4th, while you play against relegation the next season. Clubs there do everything they can to get promoted. That is why most of them also have considerable debts.

My favourite was the one who says its Mels fault for being an idle investor who puts in no money.  Needs to read up on us a bit more?

[Tyler Durden]

28 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

It would've made him the 8th highest paid manager in the country at the time. Now 11th. It would mean he earns almost double what Sean Dyche earns, triple what Dean Smith earns at Villa. 

It's borderline insanity to think that could even remotely be true.

 

Borderline insanity that it could be true or borderline insanity by the person giving him that contract?

Seems a totally random figure to bandy around if there wasn't an element of truth in it. What not 80 grand or 85? Why did the Mail land on 90 grand in the first place.

[Marriot Ram99]

1 hour ago, Topram said:

There’s no way we gave Cocu a 4 year 90k a week deal 

It's ducking Mel Morris wouldn't surprise me if he paid him 150k a week and a Dutch colonial Island off the coast of Africa as a promotion bonus. 

[BriggRam]

2 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

It's ducking Mel Morris wouldn't surprise me if he paid him 150k a week and a Dutch colonial Island off the coast of Africa as a promotion bonus. 

Well that's the island out of the window

[RoyMac5]

MTW gives Dutch press interview.

https://www.tubantia.nl/heracles/een-rijke-sjeik-een-lockdown-en-een-trainer-op-de-wip-te-wierik-had-het-zich-iets-anders-voorgesteld~a038f6bf/

"Defender Te Wierik reads a lot and hears a lot, but knows little about what is going on. The players don't get much out of the uproar surrounding the takeover and the impending dismissal of Cocu. "I have no idea what lies ahead, we have no part in it," he says from his home in Derby. These are weird times at the club. "Normally I can fill up with a book, but now I really don't know."

In any case, the mood is not light and cheerful. “We are last in the league, so the pressure is increasing, especially on the trainer. Derby is a big club, expectations are high and it shows. Cocu fetched me. I have no idea how it will go if he has to go. Or whatever the possible new owner wants. I especially hope that we can still turn it around. ”

Te Wierik, from Hengevelde, is not yet certain in the starting eleven of his new club and that takes some getting used to for the defender, who never stood next to his previous clubs Heracles and FC Groningen. Last week he played against Bournemouth (1-1). “I did fine, thankfully. It did me good. But last weekend I was back on the couch, I find that difficult. ” 

Then there is the English lockdown, which has once again halted public life across the Channel. “It started again last week. Only the supermarkets are still open. ” Te Wierik is about social things, about going out, but there is nothing to go to. “No outlet. Family and friends cannot come by, because they have to be in home isolation afterwards. ”

Train and go home, that's it. "I have contact with my friends through the Playstation and we face time with family." But the great adventure, playing in England in front of full stadiums, living in another country and making new friends: it hasn't happened yet. “Last week I was at Bournemouth stadium, that's really English. Very nice. Then I think for a moment: wow, what if there is an audience here. This is English football, this is what I came for.

Te Wierik signed with Derby before the corona crisis broke out. What if he'd known this, would he have gone? He stays quiet for a long time. He doesn't know. His girlfriend's sitting next to him. She picked up a home study to get through the time. "It's double, we imagined it differently. I would have loved to have experienced the experience in the stadiums. It's cool to play here, but the situation isn't optimal right now. Corona makes it difficult for a lot of people. I put it into perspective immediately: there are people who get very sick of it, that's so much worse."