Ghost of Clough Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, StarterForTen said: Oh, this could get very messy! The play-offs start on July 25th/26th, so less than two weeks after this hearing is reported to start. So if Derby are found guilty and given a points deduction and it is that deduction that stops the team finishing in the top six then the Club are bound to appeal. How do you hold a hearing, give a judgement, allow time to review, appeal the result, hold an appeal and give an appeal ruling in less than a fortnight? If the play-offs went on without Derby, who other than the points penalty would have been part of them, then surely the club would seek an injunction? Or, if the playoffs continue without them and Derby later win the appeal, the damages claim to the EFL will literally bankrupt the league. They haven't got a pot to wee in as it is. Something like £80m in the bank iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, richinspain said: In the "Wigan goes into administration" thread @G STAR RAM said that it is the other way around. If you finish outside the relegation zone then the points deduction is the same season, thus possibly pushing you into it. If however you are in the relegation zone then the deduction is passed over to the following season. That seems to make more sense to me. Where is the punishment if you get relegated naturally and they take more points off you? Oooops. That's more like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Well at least we’ve got a date set now. That said, given what happened with Birmingham, the EFL will keep appealing until the get the guilty verdict so it probably won’t be resolved there and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 So if we lose tomorrow, cut a deal on Monday, no fine and a 12 point deduction this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: Something like £80m in the bank iirc. Cant even afford Pride Park Stadium then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, sage said: So if we lose tomorrow, cut a deal on Monday, no fine and a 12 point deduction this season. I hope not:- 1 - I have a bet on Derby finishing in the top half of the division 2 - It would be an admission of guilt when we have done nothing wrong 3 - The EFL need their incompetent highlighting more and more, sick of them making bad decision after bad decision and them just been swept under the carpet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Thats why I said a while before lock down we need protest down and show them up. Like cocu said if you mess with one of us you mess with all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, B4ev6is said: Thats why I said a while before lock down we need protest down and show them up. Like cocu said if you mess with one of us you mess with all of us. Flock lives matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, B4ev6is said: Like cocu said if you mess with one of us you mess with all of us. You’ve made him sound like Tony Soprano! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I hope not:- 1 - I have a bet on Derby finishing in the top half of the division 2 - It would be an admission of guilt when we have done nothing wrong 3 - The EFL need their incompetent highlighting more and more, sick of them making bad decision after bad decision and them just been swept under the carpet OK 6 Point deduction, they pay our legal fees and Rick Parry has to go to Ilkeston Fair and tell everyone he is from Heanor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Steve Gibsons back side smells like double Gloucester cheese mixed with red wine vinegar. How do I know? Rick Parry told me, the incompetent, power hungry, Middlesbrough loving, brown nosing, ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, sage said: OK 6 Point deduction, they pay our legal fees and Rick Parry has to go to Ilkeston Fair and tell everyone he is from Heanor. In all seriousness though I think it would be a mistake to back down. I dont see the EFL doing a deal and it would most like see us placed under some sort of embargo. At least wait until we have a new keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said: In all seriousness though I think it would be a mistake to back down. I dont see the EFL doing a deal and it would most like see us placed under some sort of embargo. At least wait until we have a new keeper. When you say keeper, you mean book keeper yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 40 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I hope not:- 1 - I have a bet on Derby finishing in the top half of the division 2 - It would be an admission of guilt when we have done nothing wrong 3 - The EFL need their incompetent highlighting more and more, sick of them making bad decision after bad decision and them just been swept under the carpet I’m with @sage on this. As soon as the playoffs are out of the equation, I’d be tempted to accept the charge. I think it’ll have a bigger impact then letting things play out naturally - whether the result is in favour or against us. It’s Mel sticking two fingers up at Parry/EFL and Mel beating them once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: In all seriousness though I think it would be a mistake to back down. I dont see the EFL doing a deal and it would most like see us placed under some sort of embargo. At least wait until we have a new keeper. Clubs are usually given an embargo when they need to get back within P&S limits. My understanding is that we’re now safely within those limits even if we have to make adjustments for the stadium and amortisation method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampant Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, StarterForTen said: If the play-offs went on without Derby, who other than the points penalty would have been part of them..... I doubt that's going to be a concern but I like your optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Clubs are usually given an embargo when they need to get back within P&S limits. My understanding is that we’re now safely within those limits even if we have to make adjustments for the stadium and amortisation method. What is that understanding based on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: In all seriousness though I think it would be a mistake to back down. I dont see the EFL doing a deal and it would most like see us placed under some sort of embargo. At least wait until we have a new keeper. I agree, the club need to keep fighting their position. Legally and reputational wise, had we not been given guidance from the EFL that these transactions and methods didn't breach the rules, we would have acted differently to comply. Even if disciplined and deducted points, we counter claim we were damaged by the reliance on stated position of the EFL at that time. "plea bargaining" so that we don't go up/don't go down and start next season has a pragmatic appeal, but it will decisively and irrecoverably cement the reputation we broke the rules and were caught and punished (and still not enough in the minds of Steve Gibson). It'd also open the way for the EFL deciding to change it's mind after the fact in other areas. Of course....I say that having not personally reviewed the submissions (not that'd I'd understand the intricacies if I did) - however it plays out, I do hope the explanations are fully reported from both angles. Of course, the danger from the EFLs point of view is they've been played for fools by far more savvie financial operators and if they fold on these they will lose even more credibility as a regulator than they had before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: What is that understanding based on? We’re entering the 3 year period ending 2021 (18/19, 19/20, 20/21 seasons). We were charged for failing the period ending in 2018. If they felt the result of that would impact the period ending in 2019 we would have been charged for that too. 2020 is ruled out as a result as losses are almost certainly significantly lower than the previous 2 years (excluding profit on the stadium sale). Recalculating the amortisation over the 3 year period to 2021 makes a minimal difference. The profit in the stadium no longer applies to the period ending in 2021. An increase in sponsorship, a decrease in wage bill, and hopefully a Covid-19 loss of earning allowance will see that we’re just inside the limits. Figures will continue to improve year on year from here on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: We’re entering the 3 year period ending 2021 (18/19, 19/20, 20/21 seasons). We were charged for failing the period ending in 2018. If they felt the result of that would impact the period ending in 2019 we would have been charged for that too. 2020 is ruled out as a result as losses are almost certainly significantly lower than the previous 2 years (excluding profit on the stadium sale). Recalculating the amortisation over the 3 year period to 2021 makes a minimal difference. The profit in the stadium no longer applies to the period ending in 2021. An increase in sponsorship, a decrease in wage bill, and hopefully a Covid-19 loss of earning allowance will see that we’re just inside the limits. Figures will continue to improve year on year from here on. Yes fair point that we would have already been charged with a breach for 18/19 as these figures would have been submitted already, something that I had overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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