Coronavirus

[JoetheRam]

2 minutes ago, ramit said:

China's death rate is reported 4,03%, the 12. highest globally.

Why single out China for scrutiny?  How about USA, reporting 2.15%, or Germany at 1.09%, or my beloved Iceland at the bottom of the list with 0.18%?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105914/coronavirus-death-rates-worldwide/

Indeed, let's have it right, every single nation on earth will be massaging the statistics.

[maxjam]

8 minutes ago, ramit said:

China's death rate is reported 4,03%, the 12. highest globally.

Why single out China for scrutiny?  How about USA, reporting 2.15%, or Germany at 1.09%, or my beloved Iceland at the bottom of the list with 0.18%?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105914/coronavirus-death-rates-worldwide/

Maybe because they have lied and deceived and attempted to cover it up from the beginning? 

[GboroRam]

7 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Maybe because they have lied and deceived and attempted to cover it up from the beginning? 

Which country didn't?

[maxjam]

Just now, GboroRam said:

Which country didn't?

Massaging your own figures is one thing, I think the scale and severity of what China has done (and continues to do) will lead to repercussions once we're through the other side. 

[Tamworthram]

14 minutes ago, ramit said:

China's death rate is reported 4,03%, the 12. highest globally.

Why single out China for scrutiny?  How about USA, reporting 2.15%, or Germany at 1.09%, or my beloved Iceland at the bottom of the list with 0.18%?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105914/coronavirus-death-rates-worldwide/

Death rate (a horrible phrase) is based on confirmed cases rather than actual cases so, is dependent partly on how many tested.

Another stat is deaths per million of population. Those are:

China 2

Germany 10

USA 12

UK 35

Spain 194 

Italy 206

What makes me personally suspicious of the China figures are: 1) that's were it started and so they had less warning 2) My assumption is that, large parts of the population live in relative poverty with less access to advanced medical care. The one saving grace for them is their ability to shut everything far quicker and far more effectively than in Europe.

It almost feel as if the virus is spreading around the globe and the US may be a little behind the curve.

Germany is the anomaly given their location in central Europe.

[uttoxram75]

2 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

How are things over in Singapore @uttoxram75? From the “official” figures I’ve seen it doesn’t seem to have kicked off again as feared? Just interested to see how their approach is performing.

When they first shut the schools they fitted sanitisers in every classroom, limited numbers on public transport,  every public building, transport hub, airport etc or event had thermal readers and refused entry to anyone with a temperature.....people are more regimented there and with a population of 5.5miliion somewhat easier to control.

The good habits of hand washing, sanitising, social distancing etc were kept up as they allowed more stuff to open so its not widespread atm.

[ramit]

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Which country didn't?

i've lived in the same house since the late eighties, an apartment building with 46 apartments.  Of the original inhabitants only 1 now remains, myself.  i was informed this morning that my good neighbor of all those years has died from pneumonia shortly after being taken to hospital.  God bless his memory and may he rest in peace.

There are 8 strains of this virus, do the tests check on all of those?  i find myself wondering about that.  My neighbor i am told tested negative.

i have been ill for almost a month now, i can't shake this thing fully, the fever subsided but headache, eye ache and dizziness remains.  My doctor says it's a nasty virus that is for most people worse than Corona, but it has no name, is considered a flu virus that many got first around Christmas time.

[Stive Pesley]

Is there any evidence that China have fudged their figures (genuine question)?

[maxjam]

13 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Is there any evidence that China have fudged their figures (genuine question)?

Some interesting reading here;

1.   https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-anger-is-growing-at-china-over-covid-19-and-its-apparent-cover-up-attempt-11966539

2.  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/26/the-reaction-to-the-outbreak-has-revealed-the-unreceonstructed-despotism-of-the-chinese-state

3.  https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100

4.  https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

 

And lets not forget as late as Jan 20th the WHO tweeted this;

 

When the world gets back to normal China (and the WHO) are going to come under severe pressure.  Assuming the West has the balls to stand up to them.  But this its getting into the realms of politics again so it might be an idea to move this to the other thread should anyone want to carry on.

[RamNut]

38 minutes ago, maxjam said:

When the world gets back to normal China (and the WHO) are going to come under severe pressure.  Assuming the West has the balls to stand up to them. 

There should be action to tackle the treatment of live and exotic animals and the wet markets in China, and elsewhere around the world. I know that some people are a bit squeamish about the subject, but this is the third disease to emerge from the region.

I just can’t see how things will get back to normal. Are we going to have to live with the risk of catching this highly contagious  disease for years?

alot of people will have died. A lot of people will have lost their jobs and their livelihoods. Afterwards, I can't quite imagine there being a tremendous appetite for travel, especially to Spain or Italy. The virus will be absolutely everywhere. We are resourceful and technologically advanced so my hope is that a vaccine is discovered sooner rather than later. But there is no SARS vaccine 17 years after that outbreak, and the science is complex. The treatment needs to trigger an appropriate immune response otherwise the treatment could be as risky as the disease. 

This is a nightmare, brought about by human cruelty and filth.

[Spanish]

Interesting how the scale on the global death comparison graph we see everyday on the daily briefing is compressed in the upper layers which flattens the visual representation 

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

1 hour ago, ramit said:

China's death rate is reported 4,03%, the 12. highest globally.

Why single out China for scrutiny?  How about USA, reporting 2.15%, or Germany at 1.09%, or my beloved Iceland at the bottom of the list with 0.18%?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105914/coronavirus-death-rates-worldwide/

Have you heard of the great firewall of China, the holiday camps for muslims (5* no less), tibet ?

I have worked with them, let me tell you, they work very hard, they are very smart but might tend to be economical with the truth from experience

 

[ramit]

1 hour ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

Have you heard of the great firewall of China, the holiday camps for muslims (5* no less), tibet ?

I have worked with them, let me tell you, they work very hard, they are very smart but might tend to be economical with the truth from experience

 

My point is that governments all over lie for various reasons.  Not to cause panic is a major incentive to lie about Covid deaths, an easy example would be someone with an underlying condition who succumbs to it because of the added weakening of the immune system by Covid.  i trust my government officials about as far as i can throw them, as we say here.

When Aids was running rampant, everyone who had it and died from some secondary illness, or an underlying one was said to have died from Aids.  It suited western authorities to play that up at the time for reasons only known to them.  i am suggesting the possibility that many more people have died from this virus than is reported in some countries while others are more open about it. 

 

[Coneheadjohn]

No testing available for any of the staff on ENT at the Hallamshire today,Dr’s,Nurses or other...disgraceful.

[Gritstone Ram]

4 hours ago, RamNut said:

Ffs

563 more deaths in one day.

this is horrendous. 

What we need is the statistics at the end of the month to show the increase from the same time in previous years. That will give a better picture on the impact it’s having.

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, RamNut said:

There should be action to tackle the treatment of live and exotic animals and the wet markets in China, and elsewhere around the world. I know that some people are a bit squeamish about the subject, but this is the third disease to emerge from the region.

I just can’t see how things will get back to normal. Are we going to have to live with the risk of catching this highly contagious  disease for years?

alot of people will have died. A lot of people will have lost their jobs and their livelihoods. Afterwards, I can't quite imagine there being a tremendous appetite for travel, especially to Spain or Italy. The virus will be absolutely everywhere. We are resourceful and technologically advanced so my hope is that a vaccine is discovered sooner rather than later. But there is no SARS vaccine 17 years after that outbreak, and the science is complex. The treatment needs to trigger an appropriate immune response otherwise the treatment could be as risky as the disease. 

This is a nightmare, brought about by human cruelty and filth.

I think blaming the wet markets is making a scapegoat. This article explains (hopefully better than I managed, picking up more laughs than I expected) the problems are more based in our relationship with the mass production of food. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/is-factory-farming-to-blame-for-coronavirus

 

[curb]

12 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

What we need is the statistics at the end of the month to show the increase from the same time in previous years. That will give a better picture on the impact it’s having.

That’ll be easy to work out,

It’s 2,352 deaths this year,

2,352 deaths since 2019

2,352 deaths since 2018

2,352 deaths since 2017

How far do you want to go back.

[Gritstone Ram]

27 minutes ago, curb said:

That’ll be easy to work out,

It’s 2,352 deaths this year,

2,352 deaths since 2019

2,352 deaths since 2018

2,352 deaths since 2017

How far do you want to go back.

I mean each week there will be around 10000 - 11000 deaths so going back there’ll be an average. What would be interesting is how much above that average this virus has sent the deaths up. You are assuming the people who have died from the virus wouldn’t have died otherwise or there could be a lot more that haven’t been diagnosed with it who have died.

[GboroRam]

Data is online, but it's monthly so it's hard to compare. Taking figures for England & Wales (plus a few bits and bobs not fully explained):

Jan 19 was 53,910 and Jan 20 was 56,706 - an increase of 5%

Feb 19 was 45,798 and Feb 20 was 43,653, a decrease of 5%.

With the death rates increasing now, maybe March and April will show a more marked change. Coronavirus deaths totalling 2000 currently aren't enough to really make much impact on figures of around 50,000 per month. 500 per day will be enough to start to add up and impact the totals. If we plateau at 500 per day, that's 15,000 deaths in a 30 day month. I'd expect March to show a noticeable spike in that case. It's an interesting point.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlyfiguresondeathsregisteredbyareaofusualresidence

[Gritstone Ram]

10 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Data is online, but it's monthly so it's hard to compare. Taking figures for England & Wales (plus a few bits and bobs not fully explained):

Jan 19 was 53,910 and Jan 20 was 56,706 - an increase of 5%

Feb 19 was 45,798 and Feb 20 was 43,653, a decrease of 5%.

With the death rates increasing now, maybe March and April will show a more marked change. Coronavirus deaths totalling 2000 currently aren't enough to really make much impact on figures of around 50,000 per month. 500 per day will be enough to start to add up and impact the totals. If we plateau at 500 per day, that's 15,000 deaths in a 30 day month. I'd expect March to show a noticeable spike in that case. It's an interesting point.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlyfiguresondeathsregisteredbyareaofusualresidence

Yes I’ve seen the ONS site I think March’s will be out next week. From what you have stated there could be a 5% variation.

The best outcome would be little increase although I think most deaths will be premature, the worst outcome would be a lot more than they are reporting.