Yet another Chris Martin thread.... Yes really

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, Archied said:

Wasn’t vydra playing in a rowett negative team and Martin in a mac1 positive attacking team ? , you yourself and Martin a disservice with this blind bias, Martin has been a good good player for us and deservedly the fav of some fans but come on do we have to do down anybody who is not Martin ?

Lol Vydra was the only attacking outlet of that team which was built around chances going to him. As I said to another poster, Martin offered a dramatic amount more in all round play than Vydra ever had, and that's a pretty inarguable point. I'm not doing Martin a disservice, don't be ridiculous. I don't do anybody down who's not Martin, though you do like to do Martin down at any possible opportunity.

[Big Trav]

Silver lining in this cloud. 30 odd k a week off the wage bill and the chance for Marigot and JHI to cement their places. Use the saved wages to buy a youngster to develop 

[Archied]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Lol Vydra was the only attacking outlet of that team which was built around chances going to him. As I said to another poster, Martin offered a dramatic amount more in all round play than Vydra ever had, and that's a pretty inarguable point. I'm not doing Martin a disservice, don't be ridiculous. I don't do anybody down who's not Martin, though you do like to do Martin down at any possible opportunity.

Inarguable point ?, I happen to believe vydra s all round play was far far better than the Martin is god crew give him credit for but hey that’s to be expected , ive not done Martin down ,in fact I’ve been very balanced about a player I’ve enjoyed watching playing for us whilst you have taken every pop you can at vydra when pointed out he did very well for us and attracted a biggish fee from a prem club to buy him from us , you say vydra was the only attacking outlet in the team yet expect the whole team to be built round Martin to get the best from him ?,, inarguable? The only thing impossible to argue with is blind bias , so hey your right , vydra was rubbish and Martin top class player never bought by a prem club

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

Inarguable point ?, I happen to believe vydra s all round play was far far better than the Martin is god crew give him credit for but hey that’s to be expected , ive not done Martin down ,in fact I’ve been very balanced about a player I’ve enjoyed watching playing for us whilst you have taken every pop you can at vydra when pointed out he did very well for us and attracted a biggish fee from a prem club to buy him from us , you say vydra was the only attacking outlet in the team yet expect the whole team to be built round Martin to get the best from him ?,, inarguable? The only thing impossible to argue with is blind bias , so hey your right , vydra was rubbish and Martin top class player never bought by a prem club

Every pop I can at Vydra? I posted about him like 3 times and haven't posted about him since he played for us before that, I have no beef with the guy but he scored goals and did little else, in my opinion. Nobody called Vydra rubbish, you keep attacking that strawman though mate, you're winning! 

Vydra was good at shooting from the edge of the box, and was quick at turning. Wasn't a great passer of the ball, didn't put himself about, wouldn't hold it up, he was just a finisher, in my view. Good at what he does, but limited in a way that if you don't set up to make him thrive he won't offer much, hence why his first year with us was crap. 

[Archied]

13 minutes ago, Andicis said:

 

Vydra was good at shooting from the edge of the box, and was quick at turning. Wasn't a great passer of the ball, didn't put himself about, wouldn't hold it up, he was just a finisher, in my view. Good at what he does, but limited in a way that if you don't set up to make him thrive he won't offer much, hence why his first year with us was crap. 
 

 

 

 

vydra or Martin? Both perhaps ? Now I could list martins limitations ( my opinion of them) but that wouldn’t be seen as doing just the same as your doing with vydra it would be taken as putting Martin down ??‍♂️, hard to have a sensible conversation regards the good and bad of Martin with the groupies crew

[Andicis]

Just now, Archied said:

vydra or Martin? Both perhaps ? Now I could list martins limitations ( my opinion of them) but that wouldn’t be seen as doing just the same as your doing with vydra it would be taken as putting Martin down ??‍♂️, hard to have a sensible conversation regards the good and bad of Martin with the groupies crew

Martin lacks pace and is largely ineffective if you hit the ball long and don't play it into his feet. We all know Martin isn't the perfect striker, however the ''he's gone move on'' lot (since you want to group people) are expecting us to rely on a crock and a bang average striker with much worse goal per minutes. You mainly base your arguments on strawmanning and exaggerating what people are actually saying. And I'm supposed to be the one hard to have a sensible conversation with ? 

[IslandExile]

I'm a fan of Vydra.

I'm a fan of Martin.

So there's only one way to settle this argument.... No, not a Harry Hill style fight.

I'll take your Martin, with his flick-ons, vision, hold up play, ability to bring others into the game and I'll take your Vydra, with his long range shooting, ability to score out of nothing and I will give you.....

Charlie George.

Just watch some of the videos from 75-77 and be in total awe.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

15 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I'm a fan of Vydra.

I'm a fan of Martin.

So there's only one way to settle this argument.... No, not a Harry Hill style fight.

I'll take your Martin, with his flick-ons, vision, hold up play, ability to bring others into the game and I'll take your Vydra, with his long range shooting, ability to score out of nothing and I will give you.....

Charlie George.

Just watch some of the videos from 75-77 and be in total awe.

He was brilliant.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

25 minutes ago, Archied said:

vydra or Martin? Both perhaps ? Now I could list martins limitations ( my opinion of them) but that wouldn’t be seen as doing just the same as your doing with vydra it would be taken as putting Martin down ??‍♂️, hard to have a sensible conversation regards the good and bad of Martin with the groupies crew

I'm not being funny archied but you often seem to be on the end of these Martin discussions with this groupie accusation....it doesn't come across as the balanced outlook you like to portray.

[Ambitious]

Calling it now: Martin will be a Derby player next season. 

[JustOneBiblicalKazim]

13 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Calling it now: Martin will be a Derby player next season. 

Wouldn’t surprise me at all

[RamNut]

3 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Calling it now: Martin will be a Derby player next season. 

Doubt it very much.

for all his supposed limitations, Chris just seemed to work. He seemed like a good fit for us. In many of the best highlighted passing moves, his lay offs are are integral. He showed tremendous loyalty to us at Fulham, and despite a few attempts to loan out / get rid, he still seemed like he wanted to stay and be a Ram.
However the financial landscape is much altered, and we do have to get the wages under control. Presumably Chris was offered a massively reduced salary.
It is what it is. A financial decision trumping a footballing decision. i don’t particularly like it. I don’t like to see a loyal player being shown the door but I do understand that we are skint (ignoring the obvious contradiction with Wazza). I don’t quite get the Martin haters. Seems wierd to keep knocking a player whose record is pretty good. 

Now....

Waghorn gives 100%. His bull in a china shop routine lacks subtlety but has its merits.
Marriott looks the wrong shape and size to lead the attack single-handedly but was a seriously impressive finisher in his first season. swapping a holding midfielder for a second striker remains another option. 

 

[Archied]

6 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I'm not being funny archied but you often seem to be on the end of these Martin discussions with this groupie accusation....it doesn't come across as the balanced outlook you like to portray.

To be fair kash I try to keep out of them now as much as poss only really drawn in this time when it reaches the stage of putting down other Derby players ( not picked that up from you ) and not judging them with the same even handed view , waghorn is a decent striker at this level ,he has some stuff Martin lacks and visa versa,Marriott could yet turn out to be the same, vydra deserves credit rather than the he only got goals because? And brought nothing else to the team approach, personally thought he worked his sock off too, it’s hard not to jump into the argument eventually put some home truths back to those who can only see Martin , I don’t know how many times I can say I think Martin has been a very decent player for us and has some qualities I enjoy watching in a player but like the rest at this level he has his limitations and no I’m not overly worried he has decided to look elsewhere,I honestly think it’s the right time for him and Derby to move on

[Sheikh n Bake]

[May Contain Nuts]

11 hours ago, Andicis said:

Vydra was the only attacking outlet of that team which was built around chances going to him

Nearly but not quite I'd say.

He wasn't our only attacking outlet, he was just so ridiculously effective that his 21 (league) goals compare to "Next-in-line Nugent's Nine" makes it look like he was the only one getting chances to score.

On paper the opportunities were shared around reasonably well and if everyone else was as clinical as Vydra then Lawrence could have had 22, Nugent 17 & Weimann 15!

He absolutely does rely almost entirely on other players creating those opportunities (and space) for him, but he also knew his way around a free kick so there's some technical ability there beyond instinctive finishing.

Our most important player for the system to work that season was probably Huddlestone, taking it off the defence & playing it out to Weimann/Lawrence on the counter. Our biggest weakness Weimann & Lawrence having the brains of pig slurry and wasting chance after chance to take advantage of said counter, most painfully shown in the play-off away leg against Fulham who actually gave us ample opportunity to attack.

[Archied]

53 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Nearly but not quite I'd say.

He wasn't our only attacking outlet, he was just so ridiculously effective that his 21 (league) goals compare to "Next-in-line Nugent's Nine" makes it look like he was the only one getting chances to score.

On paper the opportunities were shared around reasonably well and if everyone else was as clinical as Vydra then Lawrence could have had 22, Nugent 17 & Weimann 15!

He absolutely does rely almost entirely on other players creating those opportunities (and space) for him, but he also knew his way around a free kick so there's some technical ability there beyond instinctive finishing.

Our most important player for the system to work that season was probably Huddlestone, taking it off the defence & playing it out to Weimann/Lawrence on the counter. Our biggest weakness Weimann & Lawrence having the brains of pig slurry and wasting chance after chance to take advantage of said counter, most painfully shown in the play-off away leg against Fulham who actually gave us ample opportunity to attack.

Unlike rowett who very much limited our chances to attack in that one

[Xlor]

Ya'll debating who is good and I sit here thinking weve not had a good striker since god was a lad. The last one that excited me was probably Sturridge. The ones mentioned in this thread are all toss. I like good players, not also rans. 

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, Xlor said:

Ya'll debating who is good and I sit here thinking weve not had a good striker since god was a lad. The last one that excited me was probably Sturridge. The ones mentioned in this thread are all toss. I like good players, not also rans. 

Arent you just admitting that supporting Derby might not be for you? I mean it’s nearly a quarter of a century so it might not be worth your time.

[Sparkle]

13 hours ago, Big Trav said:

Silver lining in this cloud. 30 odd k a week off the wage bill and the chance for Marigot and JHI to cement their places. Use the saved wages to buy a youngster to develop 

I don’t want forwards with places made of cement I want forwards who score goals regularly 

[Ramarena]

13 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Calling it now: Martin will be a Derby player next season. 

Possible, although there’s a lot of moving parts for him and he may miss out in general!

Hes clearly been left on the shelf as if he was in demand he’d have a contract by now.

He may get offered a contract by a decent champ team after they have exhausted their other options and he becomes an option.

He may never get a decent contract from a decent Champ team after waiting it out.

He may decide to come back to us but we’ve found the players we want and the offer/budget for him no longer exists.

When he left I thought it was a risky move given the state of football at present and nothing has changed my mind since.

Not sure where he will end up.......but I’m betting it won’t be what he was hoping for!