Cocu in or out?

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

It isn't good, mostly poor from the club as a whole. But we are in this very mess for being trigger happy and the solution is to pull the trigger again?

Are we? We've not fired a manager in years. We are in a mess because we keep signing poo players. 

[BondJovi]

Just now, Andicis said:

Are we? We've not fired a manager in years. We are in a mess because we keep signing poo players. 

The recruitment could be seen as a far bigger problem than the manager. 

[G-Ram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

This is all talk by rote.

What has he shown to make you think he's got 'it'?

Not every manager we have had in MM reign can be crap & sacked. We've had numerous managers who have all 'failed' maybe its not all the managers. There has to be something else wrong 

We need to stick by one guy. He hasnt even had a full summer or a full window. Look at the state of some of the rubbish we have at this club. Jose Mourinho would struggle to get a tune out of this lot. He needs time 

[Cook1988]

Out please, doesn't know what he is doing. By Xmas we will be near or in relgation zone, 2 away games and who thinks we are even gonna get a draw lol team is rubbish but so is cocu, Rooney is a must start every game. Noel warnock next for me or give it Rooney as player manager ??

[Gringo]

Cocu seems to have lost the dressing room and now appears to be rapidly losing the crowd, no manager survives that

[goldstar]

1 minute ago, G-Ram said:

Not every manager we have had in MM reign can be crap & sacked. We've had numerous managers who have all 'failed' maybe its not all the managers. There has to be something else wrong 

We need to stick by one guy. He hasnt even had a full summer or a full window. Look at the state of some of the rubbish we have at this club. Jose Mourinho would struggle to get a tune out of this lot. He needs time 

Its not fair though is it? If i were to start a job and be making mistakes and shedding clients for the company 1 or 2 times a week, but be kept on because theyve got through too many employees in the past few years, my fellow colleagues might get a bit annoyed and down tools slightly as my advice was ducking them up. Not right but it happens. 

[Nuwtfly]

I've watched two of his games as PSV manager over the last couple of days. One against Heerenveen, the other against Ajax.

Watching these games, the way PSV dominate possession, hit with venom on the counter, win the ball back at speed, makes me yearn for the type of football he could and might create here, given time. 

It is for this reason mostly that I am Cocu IN and will continue to be so.

However, I'm not stupid (I hope), nor am i naive. I know that he does not have the sort of quality here that he did at PSV (he oversaw players such as Wijnaldum, Depay, De Jong, Hendrix, Willems, Bruma, Van Ginkel, Lozano, Locadia...Jozefzoon).

I also know that the Championship is a very different beast to the Dutch league. Maybe the Dutch vision he has, and that I have longed to see implemented at the club I support, just won't work here. Who knows.

I hope it will, Phil. 

[Ibby]

He can go for me now.

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

A quick check suggests McClaren arguably had a worse squad! Here's one of his starting XIs from that second spell:

Carson, Baird, Keogh, Pearce, Olsson, Hughes, Johnson, Bryson, Ince, Bent, Camara

The players highlighted would ALL get in this current team.

[i-Ram]

[JayRam1]

3 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

I've watched two of his games as PSV manager over the last couple of days. One against Heerenveen, the other against Ajax.

Watching these games, the way PSV dominate possession, hit with venom on the counter, win the ball back at speed, makes me yearn for the type of football he could and might create here, given time. 

It is for this reason mostly that I am Cocu IN and will continue to be so.

However, I'm not stupid (Ifernebache hope), nor am i naive. I know that he does not have the sort of quality here that he did at PSV (he oversaw players such as Wijnaldum, Depay, De Jong, Hendrix, Willems, Bruma, Van Ginkel, Lozano, Locadia...Jozefzoon).

I also know that the Championship is a very different beast to the Dutch league. Maybe the Dutch vision he has, and that I have longed to see implemented at the club I support, just won't work here. Who knows.

I hope it will, Phil. 

Did you watch the fenerbache games too?

[Chester40]

21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This is all talk by rote.

What has he shown to make you think he's got 'it'?

If anyone needs to be brought to task about trotting out the same old line with no substance then you are public enemy no 1 ! 

What don't you understand about 'giving someone time'? The team he inherited was poor, the loans were dreadful and he has been hit by injury and scandal. 

We were kinda on track for what I would expect in the circumstances, but these last two games have been pretty worrying. So as I said, we are 6 points off where I would expect. 

That doesn't warrant talk of replacing him. 

I can't make it any simpler for you..  The last few performances have been poor. IF I were Mel I would be saying what the hell is going on, what have you got planned, what can I do to help, this isn't good enough...but I wouldn't be even thinking about firing him. 

There arent lots of positives at the moment...so does it make you feel all-knowing keep saying the same thing?

He has given more youth players a go. He has stood behind his players and acted with good grace in trying circumstance. I think in Jan he will show he has worked out who needs to go most. I feel hopeful a lifetime of being a top player and managing a successful side before gives him a better idea of what is expected than me or you and I will hope to see it in action in Jan and Feb, then building towards a better idea of what he intends. If by next Xmas we are in the same position I would be agreeing its very worrying. I don't currently feel at all concerned we will go down. But if we go on an extended terrible run and are adrift in the bottom 3 then I may change and start to get an itchy finger. 

Anyway, we all have our own opinions, life would be boring otherwise.

 

[WharfedaleRam]

Keep with him. However, he has to play Rooney behind Martin for me and if he doesn’t, he can go. He has to have some contacts in Holland or elsewhere in Europe to bring some young loanees or transfers into the club in the January window. There seems to be a big gulf between under 23’s and our first team imo, so we need some new blood from outside the club.

[CornwallRam]

Is this forum being brilliantly moderated or is everyone just posting really well. There are some superb points being made on both sides and everyone is being respectful. Derby County maybe a bit rubbish just now, but DCFCFans is at its best.

Maybe it's just that we can all see the opposite point of view? Those of us who want Cocu gone actually don't want to sack another manager, just think things are really desperate. Those who want Cocu to stay know that giving him more time is a gamble and there's precious little evidence of improvement. 

[Gisby]

24 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You still haven't told me what you've seen that makes you want to give him that time.

Because he came in at the last minute in the summer after the Lampard ‘is he going or not’ farce, because he lost Mount, Wilson & Tomori, because we’re riddled with injuries, because he suffered the Keogh debacle, because he hasn’t had a proper transfer window of his own yet ..... apart from that ‘yes’ let’s get rid and go back to square one again!!!!

[GB SPORTS]

I have done some analysis of how PC went about transforming PSV the season prior to Cocu taking over PSV finished second in the Eredivisie (he was at the club as Under 19 coach).

Of the side (11) which featured most that season he shipped out 6 from the club permanently in the summer transfer window. 1 retired (Van Bommel)1 out on loan for the season and three he kept Wijnaldum,Willems and Matavz. (Matavz was subsequently moved on the following season).

Looking at his record he tends not to recruit during the Winter Window

He changed the formation from two defensive midfielders to one.

We finished sixth last season I would suggest if Cocu had been in charge at the beginning of June of the regulars now playing Bogle and Bielik would be the only ones getting a regular game. He has to be given the chance to build If we are in the same poo this time next year then he will have to go, but I still think somehow we won't be.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Gisby said:

Because he came in at the last minute in the summer after the Lampard ‘is he going or not’ farce, because he lost Mount, Wilson & Tomori, because we’re riddled with injuries, because he suffered the Keogh debacle, because he hasn’t had a proper transfer window of his own yet ..... apart from that ‘yes’ let’s get rid and go back to square one again!!!!

No, any manager we appointed could say that. What have you seen so far to say, yes Cocu?!

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said:

I have done some analysis of how PC went about transforming PSV the season prior to Cocu taking over PSV finished second in the Eredivisie (he was at the club as Under 19 coach).

Of the side (11) which featured most that season he shipped out 6 from the club permanently in the summer transfer window. 1 retired (Van Bommel)1 out on loan for the season and three he kept Wijnaldum,Willems and Matavz. (Matavz was subsequently moved on the following season).

So Wijnaldum (Prem player) was already there? Plus Depay?

[Nuwtfly]

9 minutes ago, JayRam1 said:

Did you watch the fenerbache games too?

No. I'd bet you haven't either.

The underlying reasons it all went wrong at Fenerbache are well documented. You can go and look them up if you want. Whole thing was set up for him to fail there.

[RamNut]

I posted and predicted in the summer, that we would spend a long time mourning our failure to recruit. I was disappointed that cocu didn't seem to have a little black book of potential gems from the dutch league, and expressed concern that he didn't seem to bring a scout. The success or failure of any manager is ultimately determined by the the quality of their recruitment and the associated performances and results. Cocu's weakness seemed to be a willingness to go with the flow recruitmentwise, and a sucker's gullibility for all the talk about philosophy and the values of a club he had hardly ever heard of.

the cub has decided that the mission is to develop the young players, and paper over the cracks with loans. That was always going to go tits up due to failure to address the gaps in the squad. Unfortunately kieran dowell is becoming a latter day steve biggins. A player that the crowd seem to want to hate to destruction. Same with roos. If mel is serious about the'philosophy' then he should publicly come out and take full responsibility for the recruitment strategy (sic) and the current dependence on the bogles and the lowes, the knights and the whittakers. For me, they are not the issue. In fact i would go further. I want to see the older u23s too - shonibare, babos, and wassall. He should tell the fans that he wants the manager to try these players to see who might be good enough for next season. 

That would take some of the heat off cocu (who hasn't helped himself by tinkering, and giving boring, incoherent interviews).his other get-out-of-jail card is the fact that everyone recognises the chaos of the summer. 

He has just lost the first of the five easy fixtures that will determine whether he gets to first base - the winter transfer window. He needs to get one or two wins, and then produce a few rabbits out of the hat.