Cocu in or out?

[Justa]

One think that’s crossed my mind...

People keep saying it’s the squads fault that we are so poor and seem to apportion no blame to Cocu.

So how different is our squad now to the squad that Gary Rowett had ?

Now I didn’t enjoy Rowetts football but I’m sure the squad wasn’t much better was it ?

 

[goldstar]

14 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

I didn't say that you were lesser fans - just that you need to appreciate it will take time for Cocu - or anyone else - to turn this around. 

I think we appreciate it takes time, our biggest concern is there are no signs of any direction, growth or improved performance in players.

Nobody said it would be easy, but it looks like we're on a one way ticket to League One, and maybe a different manager would have us in a better (but by no means polished end product) position. 

[IslandExile]

2 minutes ago, goldstar said:

and maybe a different manager would have us in a better (but by no means polished end product) position. 

"maybe"

But it's difficult for me to see how anyone could get that much more out of this squad. Cocu has to be given a fair chance - so far he has not had that.

[Jayram]

37 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

The length of the contract indicates that Mel understood from the beginning that the team needs a complete rebuild and that that's a long term project.

It's a real pity that so many of our fans cannot see it ?

It's pretty obvious. Also, with the loanees leaving and the long term injuries, we're clearly playing with too many fringe players - from a poor squad anyway - in the team.

I think we all understand it was meant to be a long term project but the style of football Cocu is trying to implement isn’t going to work in the Championship with the quality of player we have. We don’t have the money or the ability to work within FFP to significantly improve the squad so I think the project is doomed to failure. We need a manager who can motivate and bring the best out of some very average players, who can inspire them to run through brick walls for him. He needs to be someone who keeps it simple tactically and plays the kind of football that gets fans off their seats. I have no personal animosity towards Cocu - he seems like a decent bloke but I just think he is the wrong manager at the wrong time for DCFC. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

Could we just not have a team that has some more shots on target?

[RamNut]

4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Could we just not have a team that has some more shots on target?

Tut......thats so last season.

[Lokidoki]

Now I didn’t enjoy Rowetts football but I’m sure the squad wasn’t much better was it ?

and as I recall the football was even worse,  I.e. "Rowetball"

let us just be realistic, apart from Holmes, there is just no midfield.

unfortunately we either gave them away, sold them, or as is the case now they are injured, or we failed to recruit what we required as backup  and that was before the present manager was signed 

Coco has been dealt a poisoned chalice. Let him  sort please

[Andicis]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

What is Cocu doing???

I am just a fan and yet even I can see that we would improve enormously by signing Ederson, Van Dyke, Silva, Sterling, Mane, Kane and Aguero.

And don't wait for the January window, sign them now. Obvious.

This kind of hyperbole is far away from what fans are actually asking for. If asking to be entertained by the club and to score goals in open play is unreasonable, then I don't know why I bother.

[IslandExile]

Just now, Andicis said:

This kind of hyperbole is far away from what fans are actually asking for. If asking to be entertained by the club and to score goals in open play is unreasonable, then I don't know why I bother.

Ok, it was a poor response by me.

We all want to be entertained but is it too much to ask that fans understand the reasons why we're where we are?

Do folks really think the uninjured players we currently have available are capable of delivering so much more excitement?

Really?

[Andicis]

Just now, IslandExile said:

Ok, it was a poor response by me.

We all want to be entertained but is it too much to ask that fans understand the reasons why we're where we are?

Do folks really think the uninjured players we currently have available are capable of delivering so much more excitement?

Really?

Could they deliver less excitement? Seriously, we haven't scored a goal in open play in ages. Fans just want to see goals. Barnsley have a poo squad and still manage to score 5 in a game, have we scored 5 in the last month? I'm not saying we need to be playing like Barca with these players, but ducking hell, it's dull as dishwater at the minute. The players could do better. 

[IslandExile]

21 minutes ago, Jayram said:

I think we all understand it was meant to be a long term project but the style of football Cocu is trying to implement isn’t going to work in the Championship with the quality of player we have. We don’t have the money or the ability to work within FFP to significantly improve the squad so I think the project is doomed to failure. We need a manager who can motivate and bring the best out of some very average players, who can inspire them to run through brick walls for him. He needs to be someone who keeps it simple tactically and plays the kind of football that gets fans off their seats. I have no personal animosity towards Cocu - he seems like a decent bloke but I just think he is the wrong manager at the wrong time for DCFC. 

So, let's suppose there is a manager capable of getting this squad to "run through brick walls". They're still not going to be able to reach the playoffs. We only just managed that with the three loanees and fewer of our better players out injured.

So, really, such a short term solution would merely result in us finishing a few places further up the mid-table than now.

Whereas with Cocu, there is a longer term plan. Bring in academy players. Bring in investment so we can afford better quality players. He's not had the chance to do that yet.

If there is an appreciation that it is a long term plan, why are folks expecting instant success?

[Topram]

4 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Again? FFS managers have to be able to work with what they have.

Managers come in and try all the players we’ve had players have so many chances here and fail 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, IslandExile said:

So, let's suppose there is a manager capable of getting this squad to "run through brick walls". They're still not going to be able to reach the playoffs. We only just managed that with the three loanees and fewer of our better players out injured.

So, really, such a short term solution would merely result in us finishing a few places further up the mid-table than now.

Whereas with Cocu, there is a longer term plan. Bring in academy players. Bring in investment so we can afford better quality players. He's not had the chance to do that yet.

If there is an appreciation that it is a long term plan, why are folks expecting instant success?

A long term plan is all well and good, but you have to see evidence of said plan working in actuality. If you have any, I'm all ears. 

You're making an assumption that he will deliver in the long term. We know for a fact he ain't working in the short term. How much money is the guy gonna need? The way he has them playing, the answer to that is a lot. Can you trust a man who's failing in the short term with a lot of money? 

[Derby blood]

6 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

So, let's suppose there is a manager capable of getting this squad to "run through brick walls". They're still not going to be able to reach the playoffs. We only just managed that with the three loanees and fewer of our better players out injured.

So, really, such a short term solution would merely result in us finishing a few places further up the mid-table than now.

Whereas with Cocu, there is a longer term plan. Bring in academy players. Bring in investment so we can afford better quality players. He's not had the chance to do that yet.

If there is an appreciation that it is a long term plan, why are folks expecting instant success?

Some great points made, yes we need to build a squad, it will take at least 3 more windows, remember we all hated Rowett so we got rid , Frank was lucky bringing in 3 high class loans, 2 now play for England, to paper over the cracks, and we have now loss our best defender by miles in Keogh, so we need to show patience. A rebuild is needed for the long term success of our club. 

[NottsRam77]

42 minutes ago, goldstar said:

I think we appreciate it takes time, our biggest concern is there are no signs of any direction, growth or improved performance in players.

Nobody said it would be easy, but it looks like we're on a one way ticket to League One, and maybe a different manager would have us in a better (but by no means polished end product) position. 

Nailed it 

[goldstar]

6 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Nailed it 

Its simple really isnt it? I don't think many were expecting promotion or anything like the heady heights of man u and chelsea last season, but this is so far removed from what we were promised (a continuation of the playing style) with absolutely no glimmers of a spark, that many are rightly concerned. 

The morale has gone, relationship between players and fans obliterated, negative football and a passive manager. Do we really want to wait until we're in a relegation fight before we pull the trigger? Because it will get to that if this carries on. He seems like a classy man, a gentleman, but Derby County manager? No thank you anymore. 

[IslandExile]

23 minutes ago, Andicis said:

A long term plan is all well and good, but you have to see evidence of said plan working in actuality. If you have any, I'm all ears. 

You're making an assumption that he will deliver in the long term. We know for a fact he ain't working in the short term. How much money is the guy gonna need? The way he has them playing, the answer to that is a lot. Can you trust a man who's failing in the short term with a lot of money? 

I think the positives are around the noises that the academy staff are making about players seeing a route to the first team.

I think we're all agreed the current first team squad is poor BUT, on top of that, injuries have not been kind - especially to Bielik, Huddlestone, Shinnie and that's without mentioning the former captain.

There have been some positive displays, good football (Preston, Forest, West Brom, Boro) and fighting performances (Leeds, Birmingham). Nevertheless, I agree the majority of what's been served up has been poo.

I'm afraid I just don't think the current lot are capable of much more. (And remember, there were quite a few poo performances under Lampard).

I do think we need at least half a new team of higher quality players, so that will cost a lot and take 2-3 windows. So hopefully the investment won't fall foul of FFP.

But otherwise, how can anyone expect this squad with 4-8 (depending whether you include the injured) of the better players from last season perform better or finish higher than last season's squad?

It seems some people are wanting a short term solution with players running around more, maybe even clagging promotion then plummeting (Billy Davies anyone?) - rather than putting up with some pain while allowing time to build something bigger and better.

[Andicis]

36 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

But otherwise, how can anyone expect this squad with 4-8 (depending whether you include the injured) of the better players from last season perform better or finish higher than last season's squad?

I don't. I never did. I do expect to see goals, and fight, and shoots of growth. I don't expect us to storm the league. I agree with plenty of things in your post, but I think you're being overly kind to a manager that seems out of his depth. Cocu is as much to blame for this as the players are. There are worse squads than ours in this league that are significantly more coherent than we are. 

[IslandExile]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I don't. I never did. I do expect to see goals, and fight, and shoots of growth. I don't expect us to storm the league. I agree with plenty of things in your post, but I think you're being overly kind to a manager that seems out of his depth. Cocu is as much to blame for this as the players are. There are worse squads than ours in this league that are significantly more coherent than we are. 

Fair enough.

I think the preseason, team bonding session and injuries have made things especially difficult for Cocu though - as they would have whoever the manager.

I do think he's experimented with players and systems with a view to next season but, I'd agree, that has contributed to the difficulties. I'd argue it's been necessary in the long run.

Hopefully, after Chrimbo with Rooney available, maybe Bielik, Clarke, Hudds and Shinnie back from injury and the first of the new signings arriving, we will start to get a more settled team and formation. Then, I honestly do believe, we will kick on.

UTR ?

[ram1964]

The season is obviously becoming a big disappointment ,especially after last  season's triumphs and mostly entertaining football. However although I have been surprised at how far we appear to have deteriorated .,Inconsistent levels of performance ,questionable team selections and formations. I do think we cannot keep changing managers at our current rate. Cocu  has proved to be a capable manager in the past and I think should be given a period of time to put his ideas into practice.

I think 3 favourable transfer windows and two seasons gives the guy or any manager the opportunity to build develop and train a squad representing his ideas and football ethics.However I would expect to see gradual improvements during this period dependant upon injuries and outgoing players.

Let's keep behind him, it wasn't a timely appointment,we lost arguably our best 3 players,it's a different league ,culture to adapt to, off field events haven't aided our plight and he is restricted with a squad of players brought in by numerous managers during the past 3-4 years..

Am not saying he is going to cut the mustard but unless we give him and the team our total support and patience ,no manager will ever  succeed at this club.