Cocu in or out?

[RoyMac5]

13 minutes ago, Bazal77 said:

These players know there days at Derby are numbered, there’s 2 possibly three players here who are of the required standard to have a future at our club...

That doessn't stop players producing for the Club, look at last seasons loans - they weren't long term here, their days were numbered, but...

[Tyler Durden]

35 minutes ago, ramit said:

Any manager who tolerates his players ignoring his instructions is incompetent

Or weak. Or both. 

[Rammy03]

16 minutes ago, Bazal77 said:

i hope cocu survives this torrid run, as once we have some quality he will succeed. 

How can you be so sure of that? These players were good last season, they now can't string two passes together. I wonder what's changed?

[Nuwtfly]

3 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

McClaren walked into the exact opposite of what Cocu has.

Look what McClaren walked into after Pearson went.

Took a side playing some of the worst football we've seen in a long time and transformed us.

Team ran out of steam, he didn't get Chris Martin back as planned, and then didn't really get backed (we ended up bringing in Nugent and De Sart under him, I believe).

McClaren had done enough to earn that summer transfer window. But Mel had eyes for another. 

[LB_DCFC]

I still look at the squad of players and think it lacks in so many areas it is unbelievable. Huge problems in goal, centre half’s who can’t pass a ball and are so slow, a midfield that has no one who can pass, literally no wingers and strikers who don’t score as a product of the lack of creativity. At max I’d suggest that the squad is good enough to be 3/4 places higher in the league currently, is that enough to sack a manager after 5 months? I really don’t think so.

Unless we took a completely different approach and brought in a warnock, which would throw any building for the long term out of the window, I don’t see it getting that much better under a new manager.

Plus, to sack Cocu at this point, it would be bloody expensive to do, and I just don’t see us laying out that much expense for what would be, imo, limited gain in terms of league position.

[DCFC Ram]

I wonder what Cocu said / whether he was asked at interview...

'What sort of football style will you adopt?' 'What will you want from your defenders. midfielders, attackers etc? in that system?' 

Other than his stubborn comments about bringing the ball out from the back (post Millwall) I haven't a clue what his plan is / formation is / strategy is.

So.

What is his analysis of how his squad are performing - against his master plan?

And, from that analysis, what is it that the current squad are unable to do?

And, what players does he need to do what his current squad can't with his plans in mind?

I not sure he has any idea

So why waste money in buying players when the manager doesn't know what his system is, doesn't know what he needs from his squad?

It's not good.

[BBG83]

5 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Look what McClaren walked into after Pearson went.

Took a side playing some of the worst football we've seen in a long time and transformed us.

Team ran out of steam, he didn't get Chris Martin back as planned, and then didn't really get backed (we ended up bringing in Nugent and De Sart under him, I believe).

McClaren had done enough to earn that summer transfer window. But Mel had eyes for another. 

Good point. Although you argue he still had a far better squad than Cocu has.

If Cocu gets players in and they’re not an improvement the alarm bells will ring. They can’t before then.

[SaintRam]

23 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said:

In all seriousness, my main issue is that right now I'd want a manager to be screaming at his players, spitting in their faces at HT then having them on the training ground at 0700 Sunday morning for a beasting after the shower poo that we are producing.

However, i get the feeling Cocu is more of a dissapointed kind of guy. Maybe have another team reflection meeting over a warm brew. 

According to the interviews with him and his coaching staff when they first joined, his first year at PSV was really rough for them. They went on an 8 game winless run (that included a 6-2 loss to Vitesse) during that first season, and a lot of the wins they got were lucky, with a squad that was expected to compete. 
Perhaps his calmness here is partly due to his experiences there?

Besides, I'm not convinced managers who scream at players and spit in their faces get very far with that technique in the modern game; players are different types of people nowadays.

[Rams forever]

Too early to judge, it was poor again today though

[Dimmu]

Just now, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

Wow. Reading through Facebook and Twitter. Lots want Cocu out. I don’t.

Clement had us flying high but fans say his football was boring. Rowett turned us into a hard to beat Championship team, but fans says his football was boring.

Before that Billy Davies got us promoted but had no forethought about the Prem. Clough steadied the ship but was deemed negative and boring. Mac picked up that group of tight knit players and friends and made life fun. They excelled but ultimately failed before he ran out of ideas. Twice.

Cocu has had five months at a Derby. His arrival delayed by the previous manager who’s philosophy was always to impress Chelsea and leave as soon as that chance came. After his holiday.

Pre-season was already planned for Cocu and was a disaster of a tour. He’s then been unable to identify areas to strengthen before the window shut. Albeit we’ve payed £10m for a Div 1 (thats what he was regardless of the name of his parent club) player who is no Stimac.

We’re three weeks away from Cocu being able to use Rooney and make signings. Yet fans want Cocu out now without the chance to buy players he’s more than likely lined up already.

We’ve sacked our long standing loyal captain and that looks terrible to the outside world. We could now sack our manager who’s been given the worst squad in years (inc. players signed by Lampard who never had chance to play for him) and no transfer windows. If we did that, who the hell does this club appeal to???? ??‍♂️

Problem is Mac1 and his sexy football., which is totally unreachable benchmark.

[Mostyn6]

16 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

McClaren walked into the exact opposite of what Cocu has.

Clough built a brilliant squad and Mac just gave them a bit of confidence. But ultimately ran out of ideas and tried to put round pegs in square holes. Did he not?

Cocu has a dire squad who don’t want to be lifted. Their time at Derby is up.

People have short memories. When we’ve blown millions on players again and still not been promoted they’d want a manager to be given time and give opportunities to the youth players.

Mel. Phil. Stick to the four year plan. Not the four month plan these fans think you’re working to.

Who said this squad is dire? 
Funny that Clough only built a good squad after a proper coach got them playing, before that the players weren’t good enough! 
its the same here now. There are enough players with enough experience and quality to be doing better than this. 
Too many 3/10s not any 8/10s. Even poor players can play 8/10! 

[Jourdan]

People are saying that the key to improving under Cocu is him bringing in his own players.

But would you trust Cocu and our infamously bad recruitment team to get those signings right?

And would you trust Cocu to get the best out of them?

I defended Cocu earlier in the season, but in the last 5-6 weeks, it’s become evident that he’s the wrong fit for this job.

[Sheikh n Bake]

3 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

According to the interviews with him and his coaching staff when they first joined, his first year at PSV was really rough for them. They went on an 8 game winless run (that included a 6-2 loss to Vitesse) during that first season, and a lot of the wins they got were lucky, with a squad that was expected to compete. 
Perhaps his calmness here is partly due to his experiences there?

Besides, I'm not convinced managers who scream at players and spit in their faces get very far with that technique in the modern game; players are different types of people nowadays.

2 questions if you may:

Where's your line with Cocu? It seems like you'd back him all the way into League One. 

On the assumption that you'll back him through January, how much of Mels money do you trust him with? He's spent approx £10m so far and bought in Bielik, Hamer, Paterson and Dowell. My concern is that he'll make some permanent Dowell type signings for serious cash. We don't have an endless pot of gold.

[ramit]

47 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said:

How? What’s his options. Use youth players and drop players who are ignoring him? Sounds familiar.

Modern players stink when they’re challenged in any way. They have decent contracts on ridiculous money. If there contracts are running out they blame their current manager for them not being able to find a decent club when they’re done.

Managers do not have the power any more, so Cocu deserves credit for trying to fix the club from top to bottom. If he’s allowed to get there we might not have this level of garbage putting in minimum effort because they don’t want to.

It's how i see it though, i would never put up with being ignored by my underlings, i would find a way to ensure that didn't happen, no matter player power, Prima Donna attitudes or any other considerations.  You are either in charge or you are not.

[SaintRam]

Part of the problem Cocu faces from our fans as well is a bit of trauma that we all suffer from the fact that if, at any point in a season since Mac first took over, our form drops - we never got it back. Never even looked like getting it back. Every season since it happened (well logically probably the second time), large swathes of fans have said "there's something wrong with this group of players." but the manager goes, the players stick around, a hodge-podge few players get added to the mix and then it happens again.

So, no-one can see where a turnaround might come from because of this death knell a lack of form has been in the past. But this is football, and it can surprise you and completely unexpected turnarounds can happen. 

I for one would be massively disappointed if he's gone before the end of January - equally though, I'll also be massively disappointed if half of the players who started today are still starting games for us in February without having drastically improved their form.
 

[SaintRam]

6 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said:

2 questions if you may:

Where's your line with Cocu? It seems like you'd back him all the way into League One. 

On the assumption that you'll back him through January, how much of Mels money do you trust him with? He's spent approx £10m so far and bought in Bielik, Hamer, Paterson and Dowell. My concern is that he'll make some permanent Dowell type signings for serious cash. We don't have an endless pot of gold.

I wouldn't support him into League One. But I don't think we're going to get relegated, so that's moot from my perspective.

 

He's spent £6 or £7m on Bielik and not really anything else on the others. They're not loan fee level loans. They'll just be partial wage covering loans.

And of course he could spend money on poo players. Any manager could. We know as well as most. But I don't care if someone comes in and gets these players playing at 7/10 levels instead of 4/10 - they're still not good enough to compete. So the same uncertainty over signings would need to be levelled at them because they'd also have to buy players.

[NottsRam77]

6 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Part of the problem Cocu faces from our fans as well is a bit of trauma that we all suffer from the fact that if, at any point in a season since Mac first took over, our form drops - we never got it back. Never even looked like getting it back. Every season since it happened (well logically probably the second time), large swathes of fans have said "there's something wrong with this group of players." but the manager goes, the players stick around, a hodge-podge few players get added to the mix and then it happens again.

So, no-one can see where a turnaround might come from because of this death knell a lack of form has been in the past. But this is football, and it can surprise you and completely unexpected turnarounds can happen. 

I for one would be massively disappointed if he's gone before the end of January - equally though, I'll also be massively disappointed if half of the players who started today are still starting games for us in February without having drastically improved their form.
 

Good post 

I’m just so undecided 

I want stability at this club but I don’t want to be flogging a dead horse either 

I’m seeing nothing , absolutely nothing to make me suggest cocu knows what he’s doing 

timescale, injuries and mitigating circumstances re losing his skipper give him some grace but even taken that into account he’s failing epically to make any sort of positive impression on the squad from what im watching 

If anything players re regressing in front of us which is a concern  

[Bazal77]

31 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

How can you be so sure of that? These players were good last season, they now can't string two passes together. I wonder what's changed?

I can’t think of one player in the current squad that was good last season, aside from Bogle.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

32 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

How can you be so sure of that? These players were good last season, they now can't string two passes together. I wonder what's changed?

Who exactly was good last season? 

[Bazal77]

36 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

That doessn't stop players producing for the Club, look at last seasons loans - they weren't long term here, their days were numbered, but...

The players don’t give a toss about the club, performances recently have demonstrated that perfectly.