Steve How Hard? Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just a thought, but are we checking into hotels that have mini bars on our away days? Maybe the After 8 club are having a sneaky drink the night before the games. Could explain some of the lethargic performances. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 On 08/12/2019 at 12:59, derbydaz22 said: You think a 70 year old Warnock will play better football? No thanks. To be fair, he did suggest Pulis as an alternative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, ramsbottom said: I know it's not real life, but I recently updated FM19 with this season's squad, and started pre-season with £2m to spend, Davis, Forsyth, Martin, Holmes, Wisdom, Anya & Zoon all injured, none of the U23's good enough to be starters, and I couldn't cancel any of the loans. I struggled to win easy friendlies... Once you sit there for an hour or so and look at the situation, you realise how difficult Cocu's task has been. And that's without Beergate, and all the fallout from that. Swiitch your tactics up - 433 with sweeper keeper, ball playing CBs, complete wing backs, regista, 2 mezzalas, inside forwards and a deep lying forward. Play players suited to those roles... Roos, Bogle, Bielik, Clarke, Lowe, Huddlestone, Knight, Sibley, Holmes, Lawrence, Martin. Cheap loan to cover RB and another CF (Brewster). Buy Josh Dasilva. Squad players of: Mitchell, Davies, Forsyth, Buchanan, Evans, Shinnie, Waghorn, Bennett. Sell (or loan): Wisdom, Malone, Jozefzoon, Anya, Marriott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG83 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Option A. Sack Cocu and appoint an impact manager. Say Warnock as he's the closest you'll get to guaranteed promotion. We go up, Sol Bamba as captain and win the opening game of the season vs Everton before results go down hill and Warnock leaves early December (seems to be our threshold). In come Big Sam to steady the ship and keep us up. The following season we sign all the best players from the clubs relegated to the championship before being relegated and in financial poo street. Option B. Give Cocu every opportunity to build something we've never had. A culture, a style and philosophy that can be followed for many years. Let him make some money on youth and give the best of the youth the opportunity to succeed. A long term plan. Yeah we would all love to be in the Prem but whats the point unless you're prepared on and off the pitch? Yeah Cocu makes some strange decisions but who really knows the thought behind it? errrrrr Cocu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Cocu in or Cocu out? What happened to Cocu shake it all about? Why is that not an option! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Now is the time to change it for me while there is still time to breathe life into our season. 7 of our next 10 league games are against sides below us in the table. The perfect time for a new manager bounce. The worry for me is if we stick with Cocu and things just continue to slide as Cocu slips further and further into confusion about what direction to take the team. What if those home wins turn into nervy draws or narrow defeats, and we simply continue losing away from home? If we wait another 10 games, when the writing is already very much on the wall, we could easily find ourselves in a relegation battle when the spring rolls around. We need to be decisive. We can’t ‘give him time’ and then expect Rooney to save us from League One in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jourdan said: Now is the time to change it for me while there is still time to breathe life into our season. 7 of our next 10 league games are against sides below us in the table. The perfect time for a new manager bounce. The worry for me is if we stick with Cocu and things just continue to slide as Cocu slips further and further into confusion about what direction to take the team. What if those home wins turn into nervy draws or narrow defeats, and we simply continue losing away from home? If we wait another 10 games, when the writing is already very much on the wall, we could easily find ourselves in a relegation battle when the spring rolls around. We need to be decisive. We can’t ‘give him time’ and then expect Rooney to save us from League One in May. We've been 'decisive' (in your meaning; it also possible to decisively not sack someone - which I suspect Mel has already decided) with struggling managers since Mel Morris took over and I'm not sure where, at any point, it's helped? It just left us with a squad of incompatible players, bought for too much and paid too much because new managers bought them in January just after joining or on summer deadline days out of desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, SaintRam said: We've been 'decisive' with struggling managers since Mel Morris took over and I'm not sure where, at any point, it's helped? It just left us with a squad of incompatible players, bought for too much and paid too much because new managers bought them in January's or on summer deadline days out of desperation. You’re right. I don’t think any of Mel’s sackings in the past were particularly wise. I think this is the one time where Mel might need to act swiftly. 10 games from now, we could be mired in a relegation battle. Would you back Cocu to get us out of relegation trouble in his first season in English football? If things well and truly go south, it’s a massive ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 31 minutes ago, Jourdan said: Now is the time to change it for me while there is still time to breathe life into our season. 7 of our next 10 league games are against sides below us in the table. The perfect time for a new manager bounce. The worry for me is if we stick with Cocu and things just continue to slide as Cocu slips further and further into confusion about what direction to take the team. What if those home wins turn into nervy draws or narrow defeats, and we simply continue losing away from home? If we wait another 10 games, when the writing is already very much on the wall, we could easily find ourselves in a relegation battle when the spring rolls around. We need to be decisive. We can’t ‘give him time’ and then expect Rooney to save us from League One in May. I refer you to my previous post in this thread. We have actually created more chances this season so far than we were on average last season. Now I don't overly love the expected goals stat, but across this season and last we have seriously lacked creativity. What we don't have this season is someone who can score from nothing. Is that is someone Rooney? A new manager may give us a brief boost but we have been an average at best team for well over a season now. Our squad reflects that. Any new manager will have to learn the players all over again, by the time January comes they won't have been able to properly work out what we need and we may end up making panic signings. Any sacking now just exacerbate s the mess we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, Jourdan said: Now is the time to change it for me while there is still time to breathe life into our season. 7 of our next 10 league games are against sides below us in the table. The perfect time for a new manager bounce. The worry for me is if we stick with Cocu and things just continue to slide as Cocu slips further and further into confusion about what direction to take the team. What if those home wins turn into nervy draws or narrow defeats, and we simply continue losing away from home? If we wait another 10 games, when the writing is already very much on the wall, we could easily find ourselves in a relegation battle when the spring rolls around. We need to be decisive. We can’t ‘give him time’ and then expect Rooney to save us from League One in May. Orrrrrrrrr, Cocu gets a "beating 7 teams below us in the next 10 games" bounce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Jourdan said: You’re right. I don’t think any of Mel’s sackings in the past were particularly wise. I think this is the one time where Mel might need to act swiftly. 10 games from now, we could be mired in a relegation battle. Would you back Cocu to get us out of relegation trouble in his first season in English football? If things well and truly go south, it’s a massive ask. I mean, the future in football is maddeningly unpredictable. We could keep Cocu, get worse and get relegated. We could keep Cocu and remain midtable (most likely imo) this year. We could keep Cocu and surge after January. We could sack Cocu and see a new manager go on a surge. We could sack Cocu and see no noticeable change. We could sack Cocu and get worse under a new manager. Any of those things could happen; none a far more likely than any other. History at Derby suggests the most likely outcome is that sacking him would lead to no noticeable change. Sacking your manager and getting worse is more likely, if you look at the recent history of the league overall, than getting better. Regardless of what anyone wants to happen; we all have to accept we're guessing. We're forming our opinions of what the club should decisively do based entirely on the outcome we think might be the most likely. I, personally, do not think another manager (within our reach) is more likely to improve things than Cocu is. I think we'd be just as likely to get relegated. So, if we take the absolute worst case and say it's relegation this year. Absurd, frankly, but I'll humour it for this argument. Relegation under Cocu occurs but the structure he's building at the club, that includes another further step in the right direction for the academy, remains. Relegation under another manager means we destroy that work for literally no reason. Football seasons are long. And even then they're not the end. We do it all over again year after year. There's really no need to panic. We were mostly preaching patience on here during the summer; now we're almost half way through one season and a lot of people seem to have given up on practising it. Also for those "there should be some shoots of progress" crowd; I decided to dig a bit and here's a look at the Norwich forum during Farke's first year. On Boxing Day; a very apt thread following Cocu's statements yesterday: https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/topic/112681-quotdaniel-farke-is-willing-to-change-to-spark-a-norwich-city-revivalquot/ On January 1st:https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/topic/112611-where-will-we-be-on-1st-january-2019/ On April 2nd:https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/topic/113187-anybody-else-beginning-to-have-doubts/ And then at the end of that first season (they finished 14th):https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/topic/114195-disaster-of-a-season/https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/topic/113963-next-season/ Don't get me wrong, their forum wasn't all doom and gloom; it had mixed opinions just like on here, which you can see in the "next season" thread - but they weren't seeing signs of good football. They didn't think Farke would achieve anything - many of the more positive folk on their board were basically being patient for the sake of it. They were willing to give him 6-10 games in the following season and he was out. Not saying Cocu will be the same I'm just really hoping to provide some perspective. Lets have some patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG83 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Whether patience pays dividends in the end or not, I think it’s worth the risk sticking with someone who has a hell of a record as a player (and manager) to see if he can create something from nothing, over four years. When Frank was appointed the question was ‘but can he work with players of less ability than he’s used to being around?’. The answer was actually no. Considering our three best players were on loan and are now cutting it in the prem. Isn’t this the case for Cocu too? Progress is sticking with Cocu and bringing the players up (or signing) to his required standard - Not lowering the standard of manager to suit the players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I suspect that the next two games will decide Cocu's future. With new investment, the club will want a manager they are sure of on January. Two defeats and we're looking over our shoulders. Interesting that they had a clear the air meeting - almost like the manager was feeling the heat. A sacking on Sunday would give a new manager a few games to assess the squad before the window opens. On the other hand, two wins and we have something to build on, with the top 6 there to be chased. Rooney plus a couple of good additions and we could be that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Jourdan said: Now is the time to change it for me while there is still time to breathe life into our season. 7 of our next 10 league games are against sides below us in the table. The perfect time for a new manager bounce. The worry for me is if we stick with Cocu and things just continue to slide as Cocu slips further and further into confusion about what direction to take the team. What if those home wins turn into nervy draws or narrow defeats, and we simply continue losing away from home? If we wait another 10 games, when the writing is already very much on the wall, we could easily find ourselves in a relegation battle when the spring rolls around. We need to be decisive. We can’t ‘give him time’ and then expect Rooney to save us from League One in May. 1 hour ago, richinspain said: Orrrrrrrrr, Cocu gets a "beating 7 teams below us in the next 10 games" bounce? My thoughts exactly, when I read that line. The perfect time for Cocu and the lads to pick up a bit of form, grab a few wins, up the confidence-ometer, and set us up nicely for a picnic with those spring rolls that got mentioned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixman1884 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Squid said: Phillip Cocu has today stepped down as Derby County manager due to wixman1884 being bored. We can confirm we have made contact with Gary Rowett and Tony Pulis and we will announce our replacement imminently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 These are fair comments. But my response to that would be if Cocu continues to tinker with the team, how are we supposed to take advantage of this favourable run of fixtures? Yes, we could improve over the next 10 games and shoot up the table and everyone’s misgivings could be unfounded. However does that seem likely when there is so much confusion with the direction Cocu is going in? How are we supposed to perform consistently? No one knows if they are going to be in the side and where they’ll be playing. Maybe we just need a new manager to come in with clear and simple ideas? To come in, play players in their natural positions and play a settled eleven, a settled formation, and a style of play that everyone - players included - can get behind? The recent team meeting would suggest that even the players can see Cocu’s ideas might be unsuitable for the circumstances. The injuries have not helped, but Cocu is also making on average several changes a game that are not down to injuries, which suggest that he is still figuring the team out. That has to be more than a little concerning in December, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 If I had our players to choose from I'd be tinkering like there's no tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBG83 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I’m obviously pro Cocu. But given the start we’ve had to the season and Rooneys impending arrival as a coach. Will Cocu get any credit should results dramatically improve? ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, CocuCrazyCocuMad said: I’m obviously pro Cocu. But given the start we’ve had to the season and Rooneys impending arrival as a coach. Will Cocu get any credit should results dramatically improve? ??♂️ If results improve, I don't think it matters who gets credit; to him or to us. All that matters is that the people in the club, making decisions, knows who to credit; we could give all the credit to a fictional being for all they care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Steve How Hard? said: Just a thought, but are we checking into hotels that have mini bars on our away days? Maybe the After 8 club are having a sneaky drink the night before the games. Could explain some of the lethargic performances. ? Good call. Hear Dwayne Holmes was pictured drinking from one of those miniature spirit bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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