Investment Close

[Wignall12]

3 hours ago, Mucker1884 said:

Whilst that is of course preferable to getting worse/going down, it's not as good as "year on year improvement".

Maybe it's time for some of us to moan a little louder?

 

Moan away Old stick ................but would you sooner have Colin in charge or Big Sam or some other short term Bozo just to get us up , only to see us get 11 points or less and be a laughing stock ? 

We've had WAY TO MUCH chop and change then suffer the consequences of our sack the manager and employ the next failure then spend seasons getting shot of players no longer wanted. 

Some folks are seriously far too impatient, a dynasty has to be built slowly to be successful, you will need patience , if you ain't got it (puts tin helmet on ) go follow another team cos chop and change gets you nowhere.

[AdamRam]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

 

You suggested it in your reply to @CHCDerby    

Your points are different though, your saying the academy is successful as we one a league and doing well, no argument there. His point is around the model being successful in terms of players in the first team / moving on which as yet is not true.

I judge Mels tenure on what I believe his short term and long term objectives were, short was on the pitch and ploughing money in, long term improving the academy to bring through players that either are moved on to make the club self funding or are regulars in the first team.

The latter is yet to be proven and the short term has failed to be sustainable model as proven by the fact we are now looking for investment. 
 

I’m not saying that he hasn’t done the best for the club, without him we would have been any better, he hasn’t invested his own money to improve the club or anything like that, just that as of today his investment into the club has proven to be successful imo.

 

[GB SPORTS]

27 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Doesn't Seem very relevant.

what was the cost of developing them v the income received in transfer fees?

Apart from Hanson, who doesn’t currently make the first team at Oxford, they all went for nothing didn’t they?

Thought Thomas went for over £1m didn't he?

Seriously though  you do have a point we do have sticky point with the youngsters and it is not just in recent times, the fruits of recent labours look good and as a championship team competing with the bigger boys with a much larger budget at u23 and u18 we are in the 9/10 area.

Whether it can be beneficial to the first team remains to be seen.

[therealhantsram]

11 hours ago, AdamRam said:

All well and good, but it’s not a successful model yet. Where is this big number of players that are coming through to the first team ?
 

Other than Bogle, no one as yet has broken into the first team,

 

Lowe?

Roos?

[AdamRam]

1 minute ago, therealhantsram said:

Lowe?

Roos?

Lowe made his first team debut before MM took over I believe ? 
 

I presume you taking the piss with Roos ?

[therealhantsram]

40 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Doesn't Seem very relevant.

what was the cost of developing them v the income received in transfer fees?

Apart from Hanson, who doesn’t currently make the first team at Oxford, they all went for nothing didn’t they?

A million for Thomas from Barnsley.

A million for Delap from Man City.

4 million for Hughes (scandalous)

10 million for Hendrick.

[RamNut]

5 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

A million for Thomas from Barnsley.

A million for Delap from Man City.

4 million for Hughes (scandalous)

10 million for Hendrick.

Thomas....I thought the reference was to Kwarme Thomas.

 

p.s. not sure why we sold Luke Thomas and releasing Elsnik was also a surprise. It just shows that a player can be highly rated at one time but still end up getting released.

 

[therealhantsram]

5 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Lowe made his first team debut before MM took over I believe ? 
 

I presume you taking the piss with Roos ?

Lampard gave Lowe his league debut.

And if you allow Bogle in your list, you should allow Roos too.  Both cost a small fee to bring them into the youth setup.

[therealhantsram]

5 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Thomas....I thought the reference was to Kwarme Thomas.

 

p.s. not sure why we sold Luke Thomas and releasing Elsnik was also a surprise. It just shows that a player can be highly rated at one time but still end up getting released.

 

Elsnik still without a club too.

[AdamRam]

2 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Lampard gave Lowe his league debut.

And if you allow Bogle in your list, you should allow Roos too.  Both cost a small fee to bring them into the youth setup.

Maybe we are at cross purposes here given your answer that Hughes/ Hendrick was sold on. We were discussing m players who have come through the academy under MM tenure, my response was just that we haven’t really seen a return as yet. 
 

Roos was 20 odd when we signed him I think, not sure he can be classed as an academy product.

 

[AdamRam]

8 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Thomas....I thought the reference was to Kwarme Thomas.

 

p.s. not sure why we sold Luke Thomas and releasing Elsnik was also a surprise. It just shows that a player can be highly rated at one time but still end up getting released.

 

Thomas is a good example of a player that many thought was destined for the top based upon his performances in the academy teams.

I think people forget that doing well in that league is not an automatic route to a player being worth tens of millions.

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Wignall12 said:

Moan away Old stick ................but would you sooner have Colin in charge or Big Sam or some other short term Bozo just to get us up , only to see us get 11 points or less and be a laughing stock ? 

We've had WAY TO MUCH chop and change then suffer the consequences of our sack the manager and employ the next failure then spend seasons getting shot of players no longer wanted. 

Some folks are seriously far too impatient, a dynasty has to be built slowly to be successful, you will need patience , if you ain't got it (puts tin helmet on ) go follow another team cos chop and change gets you nowhere.

You appear to have totally and misunderstood my post... or I've made an extremely poor attempt to add to the discussion. 

First off, my mention of moaning louder ended with a question mark... Deliberate punctuation, and for very good reason.
Previous to that, I did mention that I was "drinking the devils advocaat"!  I do so hope my little festive based play on words didn't confuse you too much.  I mentioned the fine line between being too dissatisfied, and too easily pleased.

At no point did I say I was moaning... and I seriously doubt you'll find much negativity from me, elsewhere on the forum.  At no point did I state my own position, along that fine line I mentioned.

And all that aside, this topic is about investment, and my post was in response to comments referencing the way Mel had been running the club, as a whole, and moreover, the way some fans of supposedly "bigger clubs than us" still finding reason to moan.
My post in no way referenced managers... past, present or future... so not sure why you brought that up. 
But for the record, I agree with everything you say, I'm more than satisfied with DCFC being in the top 40 clubs in the country, and I feel absolutely no need to follow another team.

It could be said that some folk are far too keen to respond, before they have digested the post to which they rush to respond to!  

 

UTR, an' all that!  ?

[Archied]

3 hours ago, angieram said:

I am interested when reading discussions about investment in how little it is acknowledged that we have been playing an unfair game with constantly moving goalposts over the years that Mel has been in charge.

If you look at the first season of the current era of near successes, 2013 - 2014, we were competing against clubs receiving parachute payments of merely £10.5 million. A season later these payments had increased to £20.8 million and now top a whopping £42.6 million.

This has had the effect of inflating transfer fees to the extent that a "Barker type fee" became a "Johnson type fee" and now a "Bielik type fee". There's no way we would have been paying that type of price for a promising 21 year old five years ago.

This expenditure raises fans' expectations of how good the players are going to be and they get disappointed when they aren't immediately world beaters.

Even more telling, I feel, is the fact that clubs with three years parachute payments of this magnitude can afford to offer lucrative contracts on much higher salaries than we can manage.

We tried to do it for a while, got badly stung in the process and have now reset to a more sensible approach. Unfortunately some fans have not reset alongside the club, and dissatisfaction is the outcome.

All along this process Mel has found innovative ways to maximise income, some of which have come under very close scrutiny. I feel he is doing everything he can to keep us competitive while he waits for the academy to bear fruit.  The fact that we have sold one or two of the lesser known academy players for fees in recent seasons is promising but the ultimate aim is to reap the rewards ourselves. 

I think we will but we need to be patient. The most talented ones are still very young and we can only introduce one or two at a time.

As @richinspain says, this is the Derby way that Mel has talked about over the years. I hope that this time it succeeds.

What a cracking post, spot on

[Rev]

1 hour ago, therealhantsram said:

Lampard gave Lowe his league debut.

And if you allow Bogle in your list, you should allow Roos too.  Both cost a small fee to bring them into the youth setup.

Lowe definitely played first team before Lampards tenure.

[therealhantsram]

Just now, reverendo de duivel said:

Lowe definitely played first team before Lampards tenure.

Only in the cup. 

[Carnero]

Poor @Mucker1884 keeps being wrongly accused of moaning lately! Don't worry matey some of us quite enjoy your eccentric brand of humour ?

[JfR]

1 minute ago, therealhantsram said:

Only in the cup. 

He played in 9 league games in 2016/17. Still counts as a player coming through after Morris took over, though.

[Wolfie20]

6 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Only in the cup. 

Made his league debut under Chris Powell in Sept '16 - away at Cardiff

[hintonsboots]

Has he signed...the cheque yet ?

[Wignall12]

1 hour ago, Mucker1884 said:

You appear to have totally and misunderstood my post... or I've made an extremely poor attempt to add to the discussion. 

First off, my mention of moaning louder ended with a question mark... Deliberate punctuation, and for very good reason.
Previous to that, I did mention that I was "drinking the devils advocaat"!  I do so hope my little festive based play on words didn't confuse you too much.  I mentioned the fine line between being too dissatisfied, and too easily pleased.

At no point did I say I was moaning... and I seriously doubt you'll find much negativity from me, elsewhere on the forum.  At no point did I state my own position, along that fine line I mentioned.

And all that aside, this topic is about investment, and my post was in response to comments referencing the way Mel had been running the club, as a whole, and moreover, the way some fans of supposedly "bigger clubs than us" still finding reason to moan.
My post in no way referenced managers... past, present or future... so not sure why you brought that up. 
But for the record, I agree with everything you say, I'm more than satisfied with DCFC being in the top 40 clubs in the country, and I feel absolutely no need to follow another team.

It could be said that some folk are far too keen to respond, before they have digested the post to which they rush to respond to!  

 

UTR, an' all that!  ?

In which case I seem to have misunderstood your post Mucker , for which I apologise sincerely , I stand by my point that people seem far too impatient with the current situation,  I realise now that you are of the same persuasion as myself. I am an old fart who remembers better times , times when we regularly turned over the top dogs , those times can not be reproduced by constant change of management,  it takes a leap of faith to back a manager for a period of time when others call for his head , I feel we are in the process of building something at our club , I hope our followers will recognise the fact and not be so quick as to dismiss the good work being done.  COYR !!